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I think you might reflect on why your position has created such a reaction. In essence you are stating that a fret hand thumb anywhere other than on the back of the neck is a signifier of poor technique and a lack of skill. Yet many people accepted as among the most skilled do this. Most move their thumb location according to what they are playing, which among other things, reduces fatigue and strain. Your view, or at least how you present it, comes across as elitism at best and petty one-upmanship at worst. Of course, given your avoidance of directly countering the more considered objections to your position, it is more than likely you are trolling and laughing you head off at the fluster you have caused. But thank you for getting us to consider what we do and why. Now I'm off to put my thumb where it belongs (is that on the end of my nose or up my bum, you ask...)

I always keep my thumb over the back of the neck. If you press for a minute or two, all the thrashing and screaming stops and and everything is peaceful again.

I played my final show of 2022 last night, at Water Rats in London. From Swansea to Southampton, Glasgow to Bristol, Swindon to San Antonio Bay - it's been a good year for shows. More than double the shows of 2021, which was more than double the shows of 2020. Not quite pre-pandemic levels but probably around as busy as I want to be right now. I've enjoyed reading all your gigging tales on this thread and long may it continue.

I think this is all verging on the edge of a slanging match. The takeaway points here, as I understand them, are: 1: Seller is not hiding the fact that the bass needs refinishing - in fact this is clearly mentioned with, what seems to me, a very fair estimated cost for a professional refinish (£500), therefore damage to the original finish is somewhat a moot point. 2: This is not to everyone's taste. It's not to my taste. The seller can sell what they want at whatever price they want. Whether they stand a chance of achieving that price is another matter. If I were the seller, I'd take some of the points mentioned here to aid me in minor tweaks to make the bass far more sellable. 3: Sometimes innovation is achieved by a seemingly crazy idea. The thought of hacking up a very good condition and very expensive bass is crazy to some... @PriZeMaN did what he did because he wanted to do it, and why not! 4: The 'craftsmanship'. I can't attest to that as I don't frankly know if the headstock routing to accommodate the string clamp has undermined the structural integrity of the top of the neck - what I can say is that I think 95% of us don't have the skills to have done what @PriZeMaN has done, regardless of our thoughts on the end product. Personally, I would not buy this. I've voiced my reasons why. Hypotheticallly, if the seller changed the headstock to a standard headless 'straight cut' shape and finished the bass so it looked shiny and new, then maybe I'd consider going to take a look. My personal thoughts is that at the asking price, in its current state, this simply will not sell. But I wish the seller the best of luck!

Reminds me of a keyboard player I know who used to play for strict tempo dance classes. Tired of being admonished by the participants, he introduced a waltz and asked - ''How do want this one then, too fast or too slow?'' 😅

Or just play it 3 times in a row with an average pub band drummer. That will be 3 different tempos!

Patty is here! (And I am in love) Patty is my new peppermint green Ibanez TMB35. For those of us who prefer short scale five stringers ... there is not a lot of choice out there (certainly not in the affordable end of the spectrum). The TMB35 is a bass that has had fairly good reviews and does not break the bank. I finally pushed the button yesterday (birthday treat for myself) and Patty arrived this afternoon. Finish - Generally very tidy, the smallest of chips around the perimeter of the headstock (only visible from up close). Body finish is uniformly smooth, neck is nice and smooth. Frets seem to be level, no buzzing notes and their edges are clean with no sharp/jaggy bits. Weight - Not as bad as I was expecting (but definitively heavier than one might expect from a bass of this size). Neck weigh however ... argh!!! Maybe as it is the first bass I've ever had with neck dive I am sensitive to it, but it is ... not nice! (But I have a plan) Tuners - Seem OK, turn easily and gearing is acceptable. Strings - Ruff! I need to get some some flatwound (or ideally tapewound) on ASAP! Action and intonation not too bad for now, will tweak when I get new strings on. Tuning is BEADG ... the low B is not too bad not floppy, but does rattle a bit if I pluck it with any wellie. It's a 0.130, I might replace with a 0.135 which I've found to be great on a 760mm scale. Pickups+Wiring - PJ passive pair. The Neck P Type seems an OK middle of the road pup. The bridge J type is on the shrill side, hum noise is apparent. The controls are Vol/Vol/Tone ... not a huge fan, but easy enough to change to Vol/Blend/Tone (The tone control crackles). Jack socket is a bit wobbly, and some of my plugins ... won't! Feel - I like the feel of the neck and the width of the fingerboard. When sitting, with Patty on my left thigh (in a high neck classical position) I can comfortably reach the full extent of the fingerboard. When positioned on my right thigh or on a strap the head definitely wants to ostrich. Overall, given the price point, I am very pleased with Patty and I would be very surprised if she is not with me for many years to come. Whilst it would be possible to gig with her (once I've got some new strings on) I see her more as a strong foundation of a project bass ... I've already got some copper tape on the way from Amazon to line the cavities, I can definitely see myself changing out the pups and electronics ... most likely passive, not sure if I will stick with PJ or go another route, either way some channeling and probably a new pickguard will be called for. I've read reports of others putting on lighter tuners to help reduce neck dive, but I am seriously considering if I can go headless ... this would totally resolve neck dive (and might even let me pop a cavity or two in the body to reduce overall weight even further). But most importantly ... loads of playing TL;DR Patty is a keeper. For size comparison, here is Patty next to my Hohner Fiver 34inch scale The Hohner (and a couple of other long scalers) are likely to appear in the Marketplace ... I am now totally convinced that a scale length over 30 inch is just too long for me! S'manth x

It's home. First impressions - exactly what I was hoping for. The output level is INCREDIBLY loud - too beefy for my practice amp. So I'll have to dig out the big rig to give it a proper shakedown (and maybe make a video). Any riff requests? Interestingly, it has a big dose of that Wal flavour (it's got that "complexity" in the upper mids), but it's also retained some of its Music Man-ness, probably because the pickups aren't in the Wal positions.

There is a myriad of evidence (that I have very much personally experienced multiple times) that suggests otherwise. Chill.

You are Winston Churchill and I claim my £5.

I do like a thread that causes a bit of a kerfuffle. Keeps life interesting and not boring. However, it gets a bit dull when it's the same old story and the same protagonists versus the vast majority. I personally have 0 years studying a degree in music, zero years at a performance school, and no years teaching anything musical. I tend to keep my thumb across my palm holding down my third finger whilst stretching out my first and second fingers in the shape of a 'V'

Careful now!

I put Grimalkin on ignore. If everyone else does it he will have noone to posture to and, hopefully, disappear back to wherever it was he came from a year ago. I don't recall there ever being such a disruptive presence.

This is disappointing to see. Basschat was always above crap like this. Let's not let this descend into being like the 'other' site. Try to be respectful at all times. It's what makes this forum so good.

The thumb always behind the neck, in both bass and guitar playing, comes from the classical technique, where this was required to exert enough, precise power to make the note sound cleanly (I'm currently learning double bass and I can see the logic in this). The modern, solid instrument can almost be viewed as something totally different and, given that they're not even 100 years old (at least as a mass produced item), techniques are still evolving. If it gets the job done and doesn't hinder progression, then any technique is valid. I will concede that 'correct' (whatever that means) is a good starting place, but if it stifles creativity or is a hinderance, because of physical impairment, then it should not be regarded as the only right and proper way. I'm recently been watching Polyphia videos with Tim Henson and Scottie LePage on guitar and young Mr Henson is classically trained, but what he and LePage are doing is amazing and certainly unconstrained by classical convention. And, to quote Forest Gump, that is all I have to say about that.

Oh FFS. Have you spent any time in the shop with the likely author?

When buying new, I have them bring out half-a-dozen or so, and I try 'em each in turn, with a light touch at first, then a bit of a thrashing. However, I'm no longer welcome, apparently, at the Aston Martin works.

In the past I was likely to vote with my wallet, but these days I'm more inclined to support the guy who is being screwed, particularly if his bosses are laughing all the way to their off-shore tax havens.

I always keep my thumb on the back of the neck. I even have the neck angled in a classical position. And I’m crap, so….

Just a reminder... Top-right of every post there is a very discreet button, with three simple dots. This gives access, amongst other functions, to the 'Report' window, in which one may explain, briefly, the reason for the Report (uncouth language, insults, overt political stance and the like...). These Reports come to the attention of the Mods and Admin, and are always read and taken seriously. It's one of the reasons that this Forum is kept so User friendly. Just a reminder.

That is kinda the point I as trying to make before I started getting challenged to a bass duel at the OK coral...!

This really is a Bc first. I’m happy to judge the competition and offer a cash prize. Just let me know your bank details @peteb

We're already there if you look at the policies. The fact that people think there is a far-left, is just an indication of how right-wing this country has become.

There are screws I every job, although I'd never trust a second hand anecdote. Perhaps it happened, perhaps it didn't. One example of poor practice doesn't mean that the whole system is bad. (The conduct of Harold Shipman hasn't put me off visiting the GP, and my friend who is a builder hasn't killed 25 people that I know of.) RM wants to pursue an outsourced Amazon/Hermes model. The reliable service we grew up with is being stripped back and replaced by zero-hours contracts, with poorly paid van drivers who have to urinate in a bottle so that shareholders can get their well earned dividend each year. We can stand by and let a 500 year-old institution be asset stripped and destroyed or support strikers. I know which side I'm on.

The 5th wealthiest country in the world with nurses using food banks and the elderly lying on stretchers for 25 hours waiting to be seen by an NHS that is purposely being destroyed. Warm Banks, horrifying corruption at the 'top' levels, just the tip of the iceberg. It's all gone very wrong... and the rest of the world can see that.

I used to find selling a bass, a difficult experience in my younger days, now, any bass, is as easy to sell as breathing. The realisation came with suddenly almost caring less what I played through, and that, myself as the player, is the most important part, and that they are just tools / a vehicle for that. This was definitely helped by joining an extremely busy functions band, it was a reality check for the internal deification of basses/brands and models. Basically now the criteria is ; Is it reliable? Is it comfortable? Can I get a bright and a dark sound? Anything beyond that is superfluous to me. Plus I generally think on the whole, that a bass pretty much sounds like a bass, and these giant differences we speak of between brands etc, really, when you take a step back, are not. I still like certain brands and looks, and a nice bass can be inspiring, but tbh, nothing is sacred anymore!

The ghosts of Saturday night - Tom waits

Just practice. When I can play a song without needing any notation I like to play it at a faster speed for practice. When I've nailed it 10% faster or so then it becomes easy at normal speed. But to get there I'll often play it way under tempo and only increase speed when it's perfect, and increase speed in small amounts. Youtube can now change playback speed so it's a really good song learning resource. Practice DOES NOT make perfect. It makes permanent! Only Perfect Practice makes Perfect. So slow it down until it's easier and get it right. Don't practice until you get it right - practice until you can't get it wrong.

I think what the poster meant was 'a pay cut ' in real terms due to the COL rises largely due to Govt ineptitude.

I’ve played a lot of Chic’s stuff at one time or another. It’s just practice. Listen to some of Jaco’s or Stanley Clarke’s stuff; it’s a lot faster.

New short scale bass to the fold, been looking for one of these for a while!

The most accurate description of Bass Direct I've ever heard! 🤣

Leak in the presence of beauty. Alison moyet

Don't get me started on Amazon!!

Fdeck has a very cool new one coming out "soon." He told me it'll be open source eventually, but he's a busy guy and I have no idea how long it'll take for that to eventuate. In the past he's avoided shipping to Europe, FWIW. My new open source one is in final testing right now too, and I've been working on setting up a few builders in the UK and elsewhere across the pond to service those who can't or won't build their own. As usual, I have nothing to sell and no interest in going that direction myself. 😉 Also, I've seen postings in a few other forums saying Schallertechnik is no longer in business? Might want to grab the Vongs while they're still available...

Of course, there might also be discussion in what is lacking from your basic tone that makes you feel like you want an octave always-on in the first place haha. Si

From a quick search of google images, the world is littered with bass players whose status and respect is clearly utterly misplaced due to their over-the-neck thumb placement ... in addition to the examples above (Jaco, Victor W etc) there is Stanley Clarke, Jack Bruce, Roger Glover, Geezer Butler, Tim Lefebvre, JJ Burnel etc. Just think what they could have achieved with a few lessons at the Guitar Institute

After I had done my music degree at university, I did three years postgraduate performance study at music college (very classical; nothing to do with bass playing). In our first week, the department's deputy head said to us, avoid the coffee shop discussions about technique — excellent advice that we were all too foolish to take.

My first commercial amp was a Polytone Minibrute III 15" combo , bought secondhand in the 1990s. It does not look particularly scientifically designed as it's nominally a sealed box as small as the 15" driver would allow with a very modest 50W solid state amp., which would do 100w with the similarly sized 15" extension cab. It was used extensively for jazz gigs with fretted and fretless bass and for pit work. I found it very versatile and ideal for small venues and tight band pits! I preferred the 15" version of the Polytone for the smooth low end, even if lacking the top end and maybe a bit of punch of the 12" versions. I do still have it and used it recently for theatre work. I also have an Ashdown active 15" sub and a GK 1 x 15" both of which get used with 2 X 10S if extra bottom end and volume is needed for bigger gigs. I also have a BC112 Mk3 which I'm tending to use more and more as it is great all round on its own for most situations, and the LFSys Silverstone is an improved version of this! At the end of the day it comes down to what you like to hear that works in your band and gig situation.

Apologies for the other one but, this is the only photo I have on my phone. The one on the right is my matte / satin black Jaydee Series ii

Heart tells me I'd go to £600. Head tells me I'm a lying barstool who wouldn't part with £300 , Head of course is correct 😄 Had a hankering for a Mosrite/Univox quite awhile now, almost bought the Aria version last week, £329. Before hitting the buy button, Head steps in with "Hold on son. You've a cove bit for the German Carve, plenty of timber stacked/stickered under the stairs. Spares drawers are groaning under the weight of tuning pegs/pickups/bridges." Before I knew what hit me the templates were drawn up ready for cutting 🙂

1. Always hold on to an empty case so you can sneak one in. 2. Keep one hanger empty. Rotate the hanging basses for obfuscation, makes it easier to sneak in on NBD.

Indeed, he should be flogged... What a level of petty mindedness you have there.

Yep. Royal Mail has been asset stripped. Many main post offices have been closed and replaced with mini post offices in supermarkets, etc. Those post office buildings, which are often in prime high street locations, can now be sold off. Staffing levels are being slashed and pay and working conditions for staff are under the hammer. Hardly surprising those staff are not happy.