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As I see it, if a profit making event or venue is advertising live music as an attraction the band should always be paid. If a pub uses a band to get more people in to buy beer, it's only right the band gets a share of that extra profit

Taken the plunge on my first bitsa build! Was torn between selling a 70's Camel P bass or using the body as a base for a build as I thought it looked a bit special under the trans finish. Starting point was I probably have enough P-bass parts accumulated over the years to knock something together one way or another. I'd decide what level of refinement to take it too as it became clearer the level of finish time/patience meant I could achieve. First thoughts if things feel/look good are Natural body and a Status neck. Stripped it down and had a sand of the body to see what we have, just taken to 120 grit at the moment and more work to do but not unhappy with it as a starting point. Pretty sure it's ash from the grain. Crazy how ideas then start to build! I do like the open pore finish on a couple of Sandberg's I've seen, also tempted with ebonizing. All good fun having a dream and play about.

I've spent the last 3-4 months during COVID lockdowns being involved with a couple of new bands, a covers band and their originals side project. We've only been able to actually rehearse together for the last month due to COVID. and tonight is our first gig. I'm nervous but also crazy excited because I haven't played a live gig in about 10 years (the joys of raising children!). It's only a small venue, but considering the last 18 months I'll just be grateful to be out playing and out of the house lol! Feels nice to be going through my old pre-gig routines Wish me luck. 209366896_1127243734352282_7063458346893440239_n.mp4

I know plenty of musicians/bands that would gladly go and play the opening of a cupboard door for nothing just as long as it was a gig, they got out for the night and had a laugh with their band mates. Whilst people are happy to do this then why wouldn’t a venue/festival/pop up bar put the feelers out for free bands. I am the grumpy bugger who won’t leave the house for at least petrol money, food and drink thrown in, because whilst I enjoy playing, gigs are hard work, especially if there’s a big PA to set up and strip down, and I actually like being at home with my wife and kids, so I want to be compensated for not being there. I can’t be annoyed by people who gig for nothing, it’s a hobby for the vast majority and you don’t get paid for playing football or golf at the weekend as far as I know.

And there, in a nutshell, is your problem. They play for no fee because they WANT to do it. When push comes to shove those musicians (like so many others) face a simple choice ... do I want to play for nothing at a gig that I really really want to play, or would I prefer to sit at home watching TV and being proud of the fact that I "stuck to my principles"? Either way, you get nowt. I have every sympathy for unemployed or under-employed musicians, but you can't just ignore the fact that they have chosen to try to make a career out of an enjoyable hobby. Some people succeed at this, but they're a vanishingly small percentage of all the musicians, footballers and PC gamers who would just love to be paid lots of money for doing something they would anyway be doing in their spare time. Putting it really bluntly, if you want to be paid then get a real job.

More accurately, the market comprises many elements, including "musicians accepting unpaid gigs". Nobody has a God-given right to paid gigs, still less a God-given right to complain about musicians who play simply because they enjoy it.

I was a professional journalist. The only unpaid work I did was an interview with George Best. He was paid £500... Now I’m retired I am glad I bent my rule... Sorry, not really relevant to any of the above😂

Certainly - front and side:

PLEASE SIR, PLEASE SIR, Can I join So one of the bands I play in does a few songs which needed access to a Low B string. My solution was to add a set of BEAD D'Addario Chromes to one of my P basses. This has always worked fine as I normally take two basses to gigs. For a while now I have had this desire to get a 5-string and after reading the comments of Spector Basses I ordered a 5 string Legend Classic from Bass Direct. I know it's not a "Posh" USA or Euro version but I am extremely pleased with the build quality, finish and performance of the Tone Pump Jr & Bartolini Pups. So please may I be admitted into the regal throng of Spector Bass lovers on Bass Chat? Last year, having sourced a Spector Legend Classic body, I built a 32 ins scale Bitsa which frankly is a knockout bass and encouraged me to acquire a proper Spector. SpectaRayVibe Anyone???? - Build Diaries - Basschat Thank you

And this is ultimately the problem. Being a musician isn't seen as a real job by a lot of people. Even by other musicians apparently.

Really enjoy the Talkingbass site. Mark's a really nice fella and a great instructor. He has some really useful FREE sessions on the existing site which should be transferred over to the new forum. Here's the email I got from Mark. Hi again, Mark here from Talkingbass So, today I have some MASSIVE news! I guess many of you will have noticed the 'Maintenance Mode' screen greeting you over at the website. Well, we've been hard at work and I'm very excited to announce the release of the all-new Talkingbass Members Area! Just login as usual and you'll be taken to the totally new site with a huge number of new features. Talkingbass is now a complete social network for bass players where you can mix with a community of like minded musicians!!! We have a set of forums for every aspect of bass discussion, you can create social Groups on any musical topic you like (I've already added a few obvious ones to get you started), you can direct message each other, you can fill out a complete Profile with information on all your bass interests, browse other profiles and even manage your own News Feed timeline like Facebook. The News Feed is the heart of the members area and where you land upon login. Here you can see all the latest activity on the site from the forums, groups and your connections. All your courses are contained within the My Courses page as before but you'll notice a whole new styling light years beyond the previous incarnation. I'll be monitoring everything over the next week to iron out any issues so just email or DM me on the site if you notice any problems or have any questions regarding the functionality. I'm incredibly excited with the future possibilities we've opened with the new site. Hope you like it!!!! Mark Link: https://www.talkingbass.net/

Please be informed, then, that we (The Daub'z...) also play pop/rock covers in pubs, local festivals or fêtes, charity events or self-promoted concerts. Much less nowadays, as I'm not getting any younger, but still keen to do the few gigs left to me, as long as health permits. I've been playing drums for over half a century; for some years as a 'pro' in variety bands, either fixed or depping, and usually got paid (little...) for those dates. I also played most week-ends weddings and other functions as a duo, whilst building a career in IT and raising the family. All this while I've always been involved in various activities, as a volunteer for festivals, playing in 'ad hoc' groups, jamming with buddies or playing in our 'family' group, The Daub'z. I don't need the money (I never have counted on playing to live; I live to play...), and claim the freedom to be beholden to no-one for what I play, nor to what 'standard'. This has served me, and the folk I play with, well as a philosophy for all these years, and I'm pleased with the pool of family, friends and acquaintances I've accumulated over all this time. The financials have never been a consideration, in this as in other aspects of my Life. I'm not alone in this, and maintain that there can be more than monetary reward, for many activities, either professional, personal or familial. One other 'upside' is not needing the services of an accountant nor financial advisor. Having little is, to me, an advantage, as I want little. Complaisance..? Probably.

To be fair, you get paid what other people think that you are worth, but the starting point for the negotiation is what you ask for. Of course, if you don't ask for any payment you are telling people that what you do is without value.

Loving my v2 Sire five string as much as I do, there was only one thing I disliked, the original plastic control knobs. I did try sourcing alternatives a while ago but I wasn’t happy with what I was able to source and then last week I bit the bullet and ordered what I needed from John East. Just installed them and I think they look rather spiffing even if I say so myself.

Fret Tang Nipping A lost Goons episode, there... I'll get me coat.

You get paid what you think you're worth. If you don't ask for any payment, you're probably pretty awful.

I used to use my side clippers (that I use also to cut the fretwire to size with) to cut in c5mm from the end and then at 90 degrees to take out the rectangle, then file flush to the bottom with a needle file

I think there is a difference between originals bands & covers bands. In my old punk covers band we used to contact new venues asking for a gig and tell them we charged £200 for the first one as an introductory offer, after that they could determine our worth if they wanted us back. They knew the music so knew what to expect, and must have known if we were suitable for their venue/customers. We were always asked back. Whereas with originals bands, promoter asks a starting out unknown band “what do you bring to my event”. How do they justify a fee. “Well we’ve not played many gigs yet, don’t have a demo and this gig isn’t in our home town so we’re not bringing in many extra punters”. I can see why promoters wouldn’t bust a gut to get their wallets out. They could of course lie, but then the promoter could too…..

But then the band takes the financial penalty and not the bar owner that booked them. And if the punters do like the band...they still don't get paid.

It’s a shame he’s mixed down so much on the dvd. They only turn him up near the end! Here’s the isolated bass from Highway Star:

Few updates to this incarnation. I've dropped the h9 as it was waaay too many effects for my band and needs and I ended up after much exploration using only the reverb. So I decided to replace it with the walrus Audio R1 which so far, so good - small footprint, midi enabled, nice latch function and the algorithms so far feel like they fit my goals. I've also added a treble booster - War Pig by mustard effects. Sounds glorious through my matamp. I need to sort the expression control still as haven't programmed that properly yet, and the cabling has gone from as good as I could do it (shoddy) to a car crash! Im really keen to try and get this into a smaller board but probably won't manage it. Still, happy with the sounds and layers its delivering!

Playing for free can sometimes work out to your advantage. Summer 2019 my fledgeling blues rock trio were invited to play at the Ipswich Maritime Festival - a musical event over 2 days organised by BBC Radio Suffolk and the local council. Big stage set up on the harbour side, all the backline and sounds were provided and featuring local bands. No money but a food voucher. Guitarist Alan is local but for me it was 55 miles each way. Did we do it? You bet we did. We ended up with the best live demo we could have wished for - on a big stage with BBC written all over it, great sound. We also reinforced our relationship with Stephen Foster, BBC Radio Suffolk's main guy for this, who subsequently asked us to play at a couple of other festivals last year. Which of course got cancelled. Foz has asked us to play at the Maritime Festival again in August. Will we do it? You bet we will.

I hadn’t realised that was a cover! (Although I’ve only heard the version off the 1980s live album with the proper lineup, not the poodle-haired USA version)

If anyone wants to play for nothing hire a studio and play your hearts out. If you want to support a charity, give them money. If someone is trying to make money off your labour then you should get your cut, as everyone else connected to the event is.

OK, so here's my three s-s gig basses (R-L): Andyjr 'Swift' custom-build - simply the best bass I've ever played regardless of price and first choice for gigs; another Swift custom-build as backup to the first; Sandberg Cali IV "don't call me" Lionel Not your typical line-up, I'm sure you'll agree. For those who are interested, didn't see the build diaries, and can stay awake, here's the story. I've always had a preference for s-s basses. This goes way back to my early playing days, when many of my favourite players such as McCartney, Wyman, Chas Chandler, Andy Fraser and Jack Bruce were NOT playing 34 "-scale Fender basses. I loved the look and sound of the Gibson EB/SG and so that's what I played in various guises, the last one being a lovely black 2011 SG re-issue. Then two things happened. First, I started to get fed up with the neck-dive and relatively restricted tonal palette. Second, I suddenly became aware of the growing range of s-s alternatives offering better-than-Gibson quality and performance (not difficult!) at affordable prices. It's been a long journey since then and I've owned a shed-load of stuff from Spector, Hofner, Maruszczyk/Mensinger, ACG, Ibanez and Fender - none of which completely did it for me. The best was a MIM Fender Rascal. I loved everything about it except the quirky body shape that put my right hand over the bridge and made the lower frets too much of a reach. After some thought, I decided to have a chat with our Andy Rogers. Like many on this forum, I'd been deeply impressed with Andy's build diaries and asked him if he could use a nice piece of walnut I already had to re-body the Rascal a-la Fender P Lyte that I remembered from the late 80s/early '90s. This he was happy to do and I was so chuffed with the result that I then got him to build a (functional if not visual) clone based on a suitable re-shape of the original Rascal body. Both these basses give me the exact spec I wanted but could not buy off the shelf. The features are: 30" scale with fast neck around 40mm wide at the nut; pups and electronics that produce the 'tone in my head'; 7-position switch that selects any permutation of the 3 pups. I've had these basses a few years now and I have no wish to gig anything else. However, GAS being what it is (!?), I'm still chopping and changing my third 'backup for the backup' bass. Currently, it's the Sandy pictured below, which narrowly displaced the s-s SBMM Ray I had before. Happy days!

Today I made more connections from the transformers to the panel-mounted hardware, added the remaining resistors to the valve sockets, and installed the eyelet board. I ran a copper bus through all the speaker ground connections to make it harder for them to work loose. I have to remember to run another cable from this to the main ground bus, otherwise there will be no ground reference for the NFB circuit. My box of bits is now looking somewhat empty - valves, knobs, feet, fuses, pilot bulb, and a few screws.

Its a non-issue, nobody's going to go to a pop-up alcohol free bar.

If you're not being paid, then its busking. And should be OK with the organisers to have collection buckets for the band.

Some musicians just like playing to a public, and don't consider it to be a job; they probably like the change from whatever work they do during the week to pay the bills. It's certainly the case for our band; we've never charged for what we play, and do it because we want to. We play rarely (I'm now retired...), and all our gear was bought just for ourselves, whether we play out or not. Not all musicians are professional, and many give a high level of performance. If asked to play for nothing, it's simple enough to just decline or accept, isn't it..?

I do it the same as Andy described, but use a set of end cutters that I ground the face down on for pulling frets, they give me a close cut that doesn't need much filing.

My point wasn't about legality. I meant that both affect the cost and we can't influence either, so no point worrying about it.

Nobody needs music? Why does it exist then? That’s along the lines of letting all creatives suffer as most seem to be doing in these constrained times: after all what have they done for us? (Goes the refrain)

It's ultimately a personal decision that no-one else is entitled to criticise. A bar is a commercial enterprise and so should expect to pay for anything it uses in order to generate a profit. If it can blag a freebie then it will. In these odd times I would be prepared to help out a venue that's supported me over the years (a bit of mutual back-scratching). Experience tells me that exposure is an empty 'promise' and is a scam. The live music scene is a free market. Cheap bands drive down the price for other bands, that's a fact as a matter of simple economics but it won't ever stop. Everyone has to accept it in the same way uninsured drivers drive up the cost of insurance. We may not approve but we won't stop it.

Shalamar - I Can Make You Feel Good | Bass Transcription | Leon Sylvers III

My possibly over-simplistic view, for what it's worth Somebody says that listening to music makes them feel something really positive and only music does that for them. They're willing to lay down their free time and disposable cash to experience the thing which makes them feel good. The product they expect to receive for the money they pay is a feeling. That seems to be generally accepted and perfectly relatable. Somebody else says that playing music to an audience makes them feel something really positive and only music does that for them. They're willing to lay down their free time and disposable cash to experience the thing which makes them feel good. The payment they expect to receive for the product they provide is a feeling. That seems to be somehow tantamount to robbery and completely reprehensible. The gig needs a clean, safe venue with tables and chairs and beer and food and toilets and staff and a stage etc. so the audience pay their disposable cash to float that. The musicians need lessons and books and instruments and amps and rehearsals and transport etc. so they pay their disposable cash to float that. The door/bar/catering/cleaning staff probably don't get many uniquely positive feelings from playing their respective parts, so they expect their recompense in cash and they get that. As long as everybody involved is happy enough with the arrangement, then I don't see what the problem is. If, as a professional musician, you can offer that venue owner something special that guarantees a bigger take on the door/bar to the point where they can afford to pay you as contract staff and still make more profit than the free alternative, then offer it and I'm confident they'll take you up on it. After all, as a non-professional musician playing original material, I have to accept that I can't get a gig in a decent venue with 'organic' footfall on a Friday/Saturday night - that's firmly covers and tributes territory for a reason.

Flabba in action , nice groove

Just to balance things, let's bring in one of PM's other tunes...Live and let die 😁

I think whether your band gets paid or not partly depends on how established and known you are on the circuit. When I've been in bands that are an unknown quantity to everyone except family members and the pet dog no way would we have expected owt other than a free pint.

My bands wouldn't, for sure. But plenty seem to be happy to (including several BC'ers on this thread). I absolutely don't begrudge them and nor do I feel at all threatened by them either. They're having fun playing as an amateur band to an audience. How is it different to an open mic night?

I auditioned for the Primitives, sometime in the nineties. I didnt get the gig, but i had some fun. The guitarist was lovely. Oh, and i got to play "Crash."

These are still strange times and we need to adjust a bit, my old band were meant to be playing a gig and were told that due to social distancing etc they could only arrive at the venue 30mins before their set, and had to leave 30mins after it. As it’s a 4hr drive there and obviously another 4hrs back they had to turn it down as too knackering plus a great part of our income was selling merch. Just a reminder how gigging, even though it’s back, is far from normal/how it used to be, hopefully soon it will return to how it was but in the meantime adapt, speculate to accumulate might be how bands have to operate.

Ah, the old being paid in exposure nonsense...