Leaderboard

I mean 'don't get it' in why do we need it we sound fine without it not in you don't understand the principles I was talking in general about comp/eq what can benefit one instrument can benefit a band. Your original post was about compressing the bass live. Without revisiting d.i., tube amps etc etc and every type of compression being generated by all the pieces of the signal chain..The whole band will be compressed live if the sound man has a capability or capacity to do so as it will make the mix better. If you want to do it at 'stage level' it's down to the band and players. In my choir band we have compression going on - me, the guitars, the fiddle all via their fx boards/pedals- not very much but enough to season the mix. Let's the cleans sparkle a bit, tightens up the drive, keeps acoustic guitars in check (though that's usually via di to the desk with...yup.. comp). We all noticed when the fiddle player got a new Zoom unit and the fiddle just sat better than the previous set up. With the new unit she sounded like she was part of the band 'in the mix' not on top of the mix. Hard to quantify but it was audible in the room. If you guys want individual compression you'd have to supply yours via pedals individually or via out board etc for the band. You could hook up a comp to aux on your desk but a universal setting wouldn't cover the individual needs of each channel i.e. what works for acoustic may not be useful for vox. Our desk is a Presonus 16.0.2. If you guys are upgrading in the future and they're pretty reasonable second hand. Certainly worth a look down the road. A band volume is usually dictated by the drums. If the guitar is louder than the drums then maybe the guitarist should rethink his eq and volume. If the PA is only for vox/acoustic then it again should be set to match the drummer and blend in with the whole mix. We never really need to be as loud as we think we should. I've done numerous gigs where the guitarist has had a Blues Jr 15w on stage and it was plenty with decent monitors. We can all take responsibility for our own sound be that with or without a comp on the board. A good sound man may have less to do if he's getting a good source to begin with - from me it's normally a straight d.i. - FOH is his business, on stage with the band mix is mine.

As long as you've got your Elf, that's the main thing.

I think this is a very interesting yet false conclusion from what I said before :). As I said, you cannot hear subtle level differences very well soloed, your ears are compressing anything loud anyway. However masking can occur between any instruments in a mix at any and all volume levels. If you set up a compressor 'just so' you get a slightly different envelope to your output. That can change the level by just a dB or so from where it was at that point in the note duration without compression, adding sustain/punch to your tone, which means that the other instruments that were masking you no longer do in the same way at the same time. Your overall level is the same, but your level during a note is different. Yes the change can be tiny, but the effect of doing so is actually huge in the context of the mix. Crucially this difference in the mix is experienced at all volumes. So in the chaos of a pub gig a compressor set up correctly can help you be heard more clearly in the mix without you turning up as loud, because you are heard better where you need to be than before. Net result, quieter instrumentation because less volume wars since less masking, hence easier monitoring for the band, most importantly a better mix for the punters = everyone happier. Eq should be used in much the same way, frequency mixing has been the norm for decades, used correctly it is about cutting unnecessary/unpleasant/masking frequencies from instrument A so that instrument B can be heard without having to increase its volume everywhere or boost its eq unnaturally. By the way the human ear hears boosts as more unnatural than cuts when eq-ing, you can use much tighter frequency ranges when cutting than when boosting without everything sounding horrid. Compression should be thought of as a way to help do this with the level change during the duration of the note, rather than at a given moment in time. Eq is the opposite, it is 'always on'. And I haven't even mentioned dynamic equalisation yet, which is a real head-flip!

Great question. And this exposes my lack of knowledge as someone who is a (purely amateur!) studio engineer first and bass player second! So the gear I'm most familiar with is rack-mounted or software-based, not in foot pedal form. I am aware of the Cali 76 and that gets a lot of praise from the music community. LA-2A style compressors are much more rare in pedal form and I have no personal experience of using any of them... but you might want to check out some of these: http://www.effectrode.com/pc-2a-compressor/pc-2a-compressor-in-depth/ http://www.diamondpedals.com/products/compressor/ http://www.joemeek.com/floorq.html http://www.demeteramps.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53 http://www.oldworldaudio.com/gear/1960.html If your live rig has scope for rack-mounted gear, then a good option might also be the Golden Age Project COMP-2A. That's perhaps the most gig-ready and 'affordable' LA-2A style compressor that I'm aware of (and by 'affordable' I'm still talking £560, so not cheap). Welcome to the world of compressor GAS. Please leave your credit card at the door

Right, compressor talk 102 in short then (if you know this stuff, skip it etc etc etc):- OK so there are 5 not 4 parameters, and they are as follows:- THRESHOLD LEVEL (level above which the compressor starts compressing) ATTACK TIME (time taken to reach n% of your total compression ratio, this is complicated by the fact that different circuits do this with different curves and get closer to 100% of the ratio by this time) RELEASE TIME (time to turn the ratio back down to 1:1 after the signal drops below the threshold) RATIO (slope) (amount that the compressor prevents the sound getting as loud as it would otherwise, ie 4:1 means the output is 1/4 of what it would have been) MAKE UP GAIN (level) (amount of gain to apply to the signal after compression, its always on though, not only when the threshold is exceeded) If you are looking to add a little 'something' extra to your bass tone, but don't have hella ears/metering/experience then I suggest this process:- Initial set up (this is actually all about setting the threshold level very accurately):- Set the attack to about 20ms, the release to 200ms the ratio to max (at least 10:1), make up gain leave at unity (0)dB Then playing at a quietish level on the A string lower the threshold slowly until either you first meter light (3dB) lights up or you hear it start to squeeze the volume. OK, this is entirely unusable right now, except from now on pretty much every note you play normally will start to compress (oh my God, think of the poor dynamics!!!) Second stage to set up:- So, we now set the ratio way back down to as low as it goes (1.5 to 1, or 2:1 are good) Set the attack back to about 50ms Set the release to about 45ms Play normal stuff. Turn the compressor off, and on, try and equalise the volume with the make up gain so that the volume is consistent whether the compressor is off or on. Now if you need a bit more 'bite' to your tone open up the attack a little, if the initial transient peak is too loud, or you want to hear the compression happen when you dig in then speed up the attack (faster than 25ms will getting very frustrating dynamics freaks!) If you feel your playing is choked by this lower the ratio, if you feel its not doing enough in the mix try raising the ratio very slighty (2.5:1 would be an absolute maximum) If you play streams of notes one after another legato and the attack of the first note is loud compared to the following notes' transients shorten the release even more (10ms is fine), I play a lot of 16th note lines, my release time is very very short Don't worry if you only see the 3dB light when you slam the strings as hard as you can, you know you are always compressing, just slightly, and just the meat of the note, after the initial transient peak. There you go you've effectively emulated a tube channel that is creeping in to saturation, on the meat of the note but left your transients untouched, and you aren't distorting. Hope this helps someone.

Car insurance is usually based on Social Domestic and Pleasure use. This can normally be extended at minimum cost to cover use by the Policy Holder (not any named drivers) on their employers business. For most of us weekend warriors that should be more than sufficient to cover to and from the gig. Insuring gear is always best done using a separate policy designed for the purpose and that will include cover for gear left in locked cars. Trying to extend home contents or car insurance to cover gear will, in my experience, lead to problems should you ever need to claim. N

In that case just buy another BB2 and run 1, 2 or 3.

A week ago I played Quando Quando Quando in a social club Last Friday I played two sets of original material in a theatre full of people who had paid decent money to see us. Tomorrow I'm playing a set of Christmas Carols in a Cathedral. In a few days' time, I'll be playing Sweet Child of Mine to a bunch of drinkers down the Dog'n'Duck. Y'know, what? I love playing the bass. If I didn't, I wouldn't do it.

CTS do mini pots now too - https://www.allparts.uk.com/products/250k-cts-mini-pot-audio-taper-split-shaft

If folks are interested there's one for sale in Germany. Not mine's though it's going nowhere

A couple more.

That's dirty? I won't show you mine then

I never wanted to play covers but I have to admit doing so has made me a far better player, I've had to improve rather that stay within my limits.

There are plenty of successful originals band I wouldn't go and see in favour of some decent local covers bands

How many of the songs that are played by covers bands around the world, were written by songwriters within the first 4 or 5 years of their career though? I can think of many bands who’s debut album has been a classic.

I've been checking this channel out for a while - great shout. Some well known and not so well known acts, all of them great so far. Even the sub-par Avenue Q ripoff...

For small gigs and practice I use my main amp. It has a volume control.

@Al Krow I know we have digs at each other, but in essence there are a range of opinions here, in which some will be personal, some will be generic, but the overriding thing throughout this whole thread is listen to how things sit, really try something to see if it works, and then be how much and if it’s worth it @5im0n has been very eloquent indeed about compression and it’s uses as well as a load of other things. @discreet has his personal view that I fully respect and works for him, someone likes a spectracomp, another an MXR........ it may ir may not make a difference for you, and you can sit in the fence and debate or really jump in like you have done with other pedals which is really cool and spend time in using them and tweaking them. 2018 will be fun for you, the only thing you have wrong is your definition of world class bands!

I know mate... too much time on Gearslutz for me too DBX is nice though. I don't have one myself but have borrowed one (500 series). Relatively cheap too. Oh bollocks... I'm getting GAS and I'm not even on Gearslutz!

Last night I played at Newcastle Cathedral as part of a concert raising money for a cancer charity. There was music, comedy and Christmassy stuff. Amongst other things, we were asked if we would do Fairytale of New York with a wonderful guest vocalist. I love the song, but it's pretty complex, and we only had piano, acoustic guitar, bass and voices to make it work. But I think it came out pretty well...

OK, this thread is making my warts bleed and I'm going to unfollow it for the good of my mental health. I don't like using a bass compressor pedal live. That is all! Enjoy going round in circles for the rest of the day folks, I've got stuff to do!

...in a decent band, and not a band with a shed-building drummer, two guitarists having a volume competition, and a drunk singer

Oh God, I meant to 'unfollow' this thread. OK... Back in the real world, where you've got a shed-building drummer a foot from your ear and two guitarists having a show-off volume competition as usual, the singer's falling down drunk and the guy on the desk is a clueless a r s e, I'd say that even the best pedal compressor, set to its optimum value for the situation, would be hard-pushed to make the bass sound any better to anyone in the room, including the bass player. I really don't have a problem with bass players who want to use a pedal compressor - it's a free country (well it isn't, but you know what I mean) - however, IN MY OPINION a pedal compressor is of limited use TO ME. And I do know how to use a compressor. But I like to keep things simple at gigs: Fingers, bass, lead, amp. In conclusion, I put forward the contention that anyone who can use a pedal compressor on bass - for remedial non sound-shaping purposes - and demonstrably produce a positive difference in a live situation - and without using compression on any other instrument or vocal - is probably a sound engineer first and a bass player second. Most bass players are bass players first and sound engineers... not at all. AND NO-ONE LISTENS TO THE BASS ANYWAY!

To my mind, any suggestion that original compositions are not as good as covers is a ridiculous position to take. My material rests on me and me alone to guarantee it's value. The 'covers' contingent can call upon every composer and songwriter ever. What possible chance have I got to convince anyone of the value of my scribblings if that is the baseline for comparison? :-D

The very moment the bass was sold the old owner doesn't get a say in what happens to it anymore. That could be if it was repainted, split for parts, used as a baseball bat or sold on for more money. It doesn't matter if that was the buyers intention or whether on the morning he got the bass he lost his job and needs some cash fast. To complain about what the new legitimate owner wants to do with his property is pathetic and infantile. A few years ago I sold a pair of Markbass cabs on here to a guy somewhere in europe. Might have been France. Can't remember. Anyway - after about 6 months he decided they weren't for him and put them up for sale. I didn't notice until a prospective buyer sent me a PM to demand to know what price I had sold them for (and it was really a "demand" and whether the current owner was ripping me off. Turned out that the prospective buyer didn't even think about shipping costs to another country (seller was doing an inclusive price) or market changes (the cabs had been discontinued and there was a bit more interest in them) or any other factor - like changing in shipping fees or even the use of a different speed of shipping service. He also seemed amazed that I genuinely did not give a flying flip at a rolling donut about the new price for the cabs, and he got quite upset that I wouldn't tell him the final sales price or the shipping cost to get them abroad in the first place. Apparently not divulging the content of private discussions is "against the community spirit" or some other bollocks. Absolute tool.

Yes, well done Alan, the accolades are deserved.

Thanks mr H I just had to dig a little deeper

Another recommendation for @KiOgon if you lack soldering skills. Ki0gons solderless looms are more or less idiot proof. I have the technical skills of a drunk koala and managed to install mine in about 10 minutes.

My cat loves Vulfpeck. He always wanders into the room when I'm playing one of their tunes

I love it, sadly it’s beyond my disposal income at this time but it is beautiful.

I am not sure about the finish on the bass, I either love it or I hate it, I am not sure yet! It certainly looks beautifully built so congratulations to the builder

My whole family lived in a 4 x 10. You know, the classic old two up, two down.

Good to see he's getting recognition for all his good work. Congratulations Alan.

Hire - or EUB, unless there is a very healthy budget for travel.

And he we are again, what are transparent compressors good for in a pub band? Not about to try and teach anyone to suck eggs, if you know this stuff, sorry for the post, if you are not really interested please skip it, if you want to know why a compressor might help you in a live situation when it apparently 'does nothing' or 'kills my dynamics' then feel free to have a read. Its like a very cut down compressor 101 chat I gave once, which some of you are still scarred by..... Originally compression was supposed to be a transparent tool to prevent an engineer from having to ride a fader throughout a take or a mix. All it was supposed to do was keep that level more even - as often as not by just slightly modifying the envelope of the input sound, hence the attack and release control. And with VCA compressors they pretty much achieved it. But before VCA compressors there were Vari-mu compressors (real tube compressors), Optical compressors and FET compressors. All these types have pluses and minuses, they all have different attack and release curves all of which do more than just transparently alter volume and help out an engineer. On top of these types of compressor there is tape compression and and amp/driver compression - no driver is completely compression free when you push it hard, no amp is compression free when you push it hard, all overdrives and distortions and fuzzes are also compressors, just totally not transparent ones. The best ever compressor you will ever experience is the pair you have strapped on to the side of your head all day. Yes your ears/brain are simply the most powerful compressor you can buy. The quietest sound you can hear is equivalent to your ear drum moving the width or a single molecule apparently, whilst the loudest sound you can hear before deafening yourself pretty much instantly is hundreds of thousands of times louder (you need to look into the way sound pressure level measured in micro pascals and decibels work as units of measurement). That amazing set of compressors on the side of your head has an unfortunate side effect, without a direct reference you are almost totally volume blind, small changes in volume are beyond you to describe, you can not reliably perceive them. Unless they are compared to a level that has not changed and is not changing. Obviously bigger differences are easy to perceive but the differences that can make or break a mix, if you aren't listening to the the mix happening at the time, nope, not a hope. So a deliberately transparent compressor you can't hear working on your signal in isolation, until you are doing way to much with it, and thats about when you feel your dynamics disappearing, because you are doing huge amount of compression in order to hear anything much at all. In a mix way less compression would be 'enough' to change the envelope of your signal to make your instrument be easier to hear, but you aren't in a mix so in order to hear anything at all you put way too much compression on. Thing is, a studio engineer has the time and choice to select the right type of compressor for the particular part of a track he/she wants it for and then set it up just so. What it does to an instrument in a mix then is help prevent 'masking', this is where the envelope of the signal drops in such a way, either because of the player's technique or their instrument or their preferred tonal choices that some other instrument makes it hard to hear when it plays at the same time. Near the end of a mix when two instruments are masking each other I have found that a change of as little as 0.1dB can sometimes make a real difference to the way a pair of instruments sound in a mix. Back to live then. If you are trying to use a compressor to help you be heard in a mix you need very very little for it to make a difference. If you are using compression for a definite effect then you may need bucket loads. If you like your tone as it is but feel you sometimes 'disappear' in the mix and are constantly turning up, then a transparent compressor, set just right, could be the answer to the fight. But you need good critical listening skills, you need to do this 'in the mix' unless you have great metering on the pedal to help you out otherwise you probably will put too much compression on the sound in order to hear it happening. Compression is difficult to master when you are in the safe space of a mix down with no distractions and lots of time to experiment. In order to make it 'easier' to use many pedals have no 'confusing' metering and not all the required parameters to really control the compression. This is a double edged sword, no metering and 'doing it by ear' are nigh on impossible with a transparent compressor unless you are setting it up in situ in the mix. On the other hand a full featured compressor is waaay to complex for an average bassist to get the best out of, and also remember that little detail about setting it right for a particular song? Well you cant with an always on compressor, so you have to set it to help you a little bit all the time, and that's another skill. Ultra low ratio (1.5 to 1 even), very low threshold, slow-ish attack (50 to 80 ms) and fast release (less than 30ms) giving not more than 3dB total compression on the loudest parts is probably a good target for a general touch of compression type of setting on bass live IME. No you cant really hear or feel it if you are just playing solo (dont be concerned if when playing normally the 3dB light doesnt light up at all, you are still getting some compression if your threshold is set right). In the mix you will be easier to hear, whether you are a loud or quiet band. Not because of tonnes of compression but because your individual note envelopes are changed just a smidge so that the post transient part of the note envelope is a touch louder than before. Hope that makes some sense, probably not though

kate Rusby - Angels and men. Beautiful. and deep purple Infinite - made the mistake of listening at 33 1/3. made Gillan sound like some old blues man. Quite a bit better at 45.

I've had the utter pleasure of playing Doug's actual Spector and yes, it definitely does have a Jazz neck profile (as do the signature models yup) and OMG what an instrument!

When my wife was in the hospice, during the last month of her life, I picked up the new Slash album (at the time) Apocalyptic Love. Great album and I was stunned by the vocalist Myles Kennedy. Who was this guy and where did he come from? I then discovered Alter Bridge, Myles' main band. After my wife's death, I bought the Alter Bridge album ABIII. On that album is a song called 'Wonderful Life' which could have been written about my experiences with my wife in those last few weeks. I still struggle to listen to it sometimes now and my tattoo tribute to my wife, on my arm, has extracts from that song included.

Glen Campbell singing Jimmy Webb's fantastic 'Wichita Lineman': "And I need you more than want you........ And I want you for all time"

I love the way one gets a picture of a situation and person in Joni Mitchell’s songs, like short stories. A carefully chosen and economic use of words which lead the listener to fill in the gaps:

Cannons roared, in the valley they thundered While the guns lit up the night Then it rained and both sides wondered Who is wrong and who is right? On the wire like a ragged old scarecrow Bloody hands and broken back When they fire, see him pirouette solo Jump in time to the rat-a-tat What a night though it's one of seven What a night for the dancing dead What a night to be called to heaven What a picture to fill your head To fill your head By the wall in silhouette standing Through a flash of sudden light Cigarette from his mouth just hanging Paper square to his heart pinned tight Gather 'round, reluctant marksmen One of them to take his life With a smile he gives them pardon Leaves the dark and takes the light What a night though it's one of seven What a night for the dancing dead What a night to be called to heaven What a picture to fill your head To fill your head They dispatch their precious cargo And knock him back right off his feet And they pray may no one follow Better still to face the beast When the field has become a garden And the wall has stood the test Children play and the dogs run barking Who would think or who would guess? What a night though it's one of seven Le mort dansant What a night for the dancing dead What a night to be called to heaven What a picture to fill your head To fill your head Les Morts Dansant by Magnum, the most thought filling lyrics i`ve ever heard and a brilliant song to boot.

Thundercat: ‘Drunk’

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TVAnd you think you're so clever and classless and freeBut you're still f*****g peasants as far as I can seeA working class hero is something to beA working class hero is something to be

Not exactly changed my world at the time , but certainly let me know I wasn't alone in it , which helps sometimes billy bragg , a New England

I think it's probably Cardington by Lifesigns - beautifully executed, uplifting, accessible & melodic prog. Lovely stuff.

del amitri

He still is. His new album is mint.

"Who knows where the time goes..?" (Sandy Denny, Fairport Convention...)