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51m0n

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51m0n last won the day on December 14 2017

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About 51m0n

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    Dark Wizard of the Knights Martial
  • Birthday 26/05/1970

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  1. And if you want to know why mastering is audio engineering then buy Bob Katz's masterpiece on the subject. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0240818962/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_D85KZN5J9W7DAFAP7A2R
  2. A really great insight into the thought processes behind the roles I mentioned above can be found in Mixerman's Zen and the Art of Mixing/Tracking/Producing trilogy. Great books, entertaining and educational in equal measure. His Diary of Mixerman book is absolutely hilarious too! https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/096004051X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_1MJK8DZQ1N6XK0F6RF9X https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1480387436/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_4ZH2733AC77AE8E7B601 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08QBHB47L/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_YHCR8FB3N8QEWM17X4A0 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009T9XERO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_76ZBVYNNPAV7SD1ZTK4B
  3. When it comes to creating a recording I am really not sure I agree with you at all. A band's sound on a recording is very much a team effort between the band, producer, tracking engineer, mix engineer and mastering engineer. These days these extra roles are more and more often covered by less people, so the producer may be tracking, and even mixing, but probably not mastering too on a commercial release, variations certainly apply. However you only have to listen to the mix contests on basschat to hear how 10 mixers given exactly the same input can produce wildly different output, and not in the realm of remixes alone, just completely different takes on the source material as it was tracked. If you take that to its logical conclusion in a larger venue the sound person is effectively producing a live mix of the band, unencumbered by the stage volume. Almost certainly they have reference mixes of recorded band output to work towards, but not always. So in this setting the audience experience is very much at most 50/50 band and sound person. If you don't believe me that's fine, but I can assure the person behind the board is absolutely the one calling the shots in terms of sound live. Of course to keep their gig they need to work to produce something the band, their management and tech people approve of, but its still only the sound person who can achieve that live. In contrast a monitor engineer is only as good as how happy the band feel about their personal monitoring on stage in the moment. A far harder nut to crack in a lot of situations (guitarists and singers, jeez!). The smaller the venue the more of the band's own generated volume 'invades' the audience space and the less the sound guy has ultimate influence (for better or worse). In these cases a band can royally ruin any chance of a decent mix regardless of the PA output or any mount of soundy skill. I saw Vic Wooten at the Komedia in Brighton, stood right in front of Vic, could have muted the strings on his bass any time I liked, utterly brilliant gig. The PA stacks were 15 feet to either side of me. His Hartke bass rig was about 8ft behind him - I heard the band mainly from their own monitors, and Vic entirely from his rig. Now in that venue, on that gig, the soundy had very little to do with what I heard. But damn they sounded good! Even when Vic accidentally kicked the kick drum mic fully out of the kick drum To be honest I think the different 'engineering' roles I have mentioned, tracking engineer, mix engineer, mastering engineer do actually warrant the title engineer, live sound FOH guys who know their beans are in the same sort of position as mix engineers for me, but also deal with shabby acoustics every night - certainly more and more bigger rigs use virtually limitless computing power live for fx and plug ins to achieve better and better mixes live (or closer to the record anyway). The amount of understanding required to perform these roles technically well, never mind artistically, is staggering - just look at the endless compression discourse on this site, that stuff is recording fx 101 and most bassists don't have much of a clue about it - they often struggle with the concept of gain staging for crying out loud. Mastering is a darker art still, very much a psychoacoustic role as much as anything else, but the technicalities of saving a mix at mastering stage are not insignificant at all. Where as tracking, although technically not quite as out there as mixing in some cases, requires a degree in psychology to get into a person's head and extract the very best from them in a stressful situation. Producers on the other hand, eat doughnuts....
  4. Are they any good? Then call them by their preferred nom de plum and help them. In my professional experience as a software engineer/architect, the letters after a person's name bear absolutely no relationship to their ability to deliver consistent quality work. Same goes for sound engineering.
  5. If I were recording a jazz trio to quintet I would use no compression, instead use the dynamic range of 24 bits. At mixdown a combination of automation and very gentle 2 buss compression would keep everything glued together properly
  6. I don't need to shout him down, or be a better bass player or educator than him to hold a different opinion. I would think it fairly possible that I might be a better sound engineer than him though... Which is perhaps more relevant.
  7. No one needs a compressor. You have asserted repeatedly that you can't hear the difference live. Ergo they are useless. That's a classic logical fallacy first of all. Secondly it completely disregards those who can hear and or feel the difference, and arguing that compressors on pedalboards are useless is therefore ridiculous.
  8. And there you go. Dynamic control is not the only job of a compressor. Its also a timbre control, and a transient control, and a means of making space in a mix. Even on a pedalboard.
  9. Threshold Ratio Attack Release Makeup gain At the very least, wet/dry mix is extremely useful too, as is a side chain filter. Anything less and you aren't really in control anymore. And at least a 6 LED gain reduction meter.
  10. I'm not sure I am entirely joking....
  11. For what it's worth a compressor is definitely not a good first effect candidate in my opinion. I think you should have a license before you can buy one to prove you have an idea what to do with the bloody thing before you can walk out of the shop with it. Save everyone a load of hassle that would...
  12. Nope, Al wants people to send in live clips where for some reason the comp on the bass player's pedal board is turned on and off so he can listen and say "That's doing nothing". I am pointing out that to most audience members you can apply the same thing to almost all fx in a mix. In fact I would go as far as to say, at gig volume, no effect is more important than playing tightly as a band. A badly played rendition of Sledgehammer with Tony Levin's own octaver, chorus and compressor set up exactly how he had them is going to sound worse than a well played version with none of those effects to every single member of an audience. The audience will get more out of the well played version and consider it better. They wont really be able to say why though. But they will dance to the well played one and look askance at the badly played sonic masterpiece. So Al's point is actually moot, unless Al cares to demonstrate beyond proof that I am wrong in my counter assertion...
  13. Mine isn't, must be all the compression 🤪
  14. Surely there's a real logical fallacy that needs pointing out regarding @Al Krow's request for compression efficacy live? In order to attempt to show that a good compressor set up well is worth less than other FX on bass he needs to provide evidence that those other FX, at unity gain to them not being on, have a greater affect on audience enjoyment. Good luck with that, I've never met a punter who was enjoying a band who could differentiate between what a bass guitar and a keyboard players left hand added to the mix, let alone the importance of fuzz over overdriven over clean or a bit of chorus or an octave or, well any of it. So the assertion that compression is of less use in a pub band setting is rather difficult to prove without a more detailed scientific experiment. The irony being that compression was popularised by the loudness war between Motown and the Beatles in the mid 60's, given Al's preferred era to bang out down the dog and duck...
  15. I don't need to, it is legend on here....
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