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Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/12/25 in all areas
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So I have umming and arring for a while between one of these and a Sadowsky MetroExpress Modern 5 for some time now, watching prices and seeing if any offers popped up. The GB5 Modern was listed at around £1200... pricey but I was tempted. GuitarGuitar then had them for £999 - oooh, that seems a good deal but a Sadowsky is only a little bit more... Hang fast Carl... you never know what will pop up on the Black Friday deals... So, I keep looking, thinking something might pop up. I think I prefer the Sadowsky but the spec and hardware is better on the Cort. Then on Thomann, Cort GB5 Modern at £666 - pull that trigger Carl! Arrived Friday but have only just had the chance to unpack and play as I was away over the weekend. What a great bass and for the money - hipshot ultralites, Nordstrand big singles, Babicz bridge and Mark Bass preamp, it's amazing spec for that money. Add in a lovely loooking thing and a good quality gig bag to boot and it was an amazing deal - A very happy punter! I had read about some QC issues with these but this one is all good, no blemishes or marks and compared to some other basses I have had, it's light as a feather. I can see this as a mainstay for future gigs! Anyway... enough gloating... here's some pics...20 points
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My final show of 2025 was also a debut at Devizes’ White Bear, a famously haunted 15th century coach house. Dubbed as “The White Bear before Christmas”, our visuals guy had declined doing a Jack Skellington type poster design due to copyright. I admire his principles. Having lost our other regular payer, I had high hopes to make this a good show. The vibe was very friendly and our hard push across all of our social media platforms paid off. Loads of familiar faces showed up. I did a walk around prior to going on, giving out band badges. I was playing mandocello, my Precision bass, mandolin and guitar. We decided to dress extra smart to make it more of an event. Nick’s legendary 86yr old mum came down to support us (again) and told me afterwards that we just get better. The landlady was extremely happy and said the whole pub was blown away, even the people in the back bar that I wasn’t convinced we’d win over. We have a couple of super fans who have been to the last few shows who showed up. It looks like we’re back for our 2026 album launch in the spring. A definite success.17 points
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The Old Inn in Littlethorpe is tiny. We're used to squeezing in there so have learnt to travel as light as possible. The Stingish bass was back out. I think I prefer the simplicity of a 2-band EQ. As you can see it was a bit cramped. The night started a little bit quiet but soon got much busier. In this place we nearly always have people encroaching or knocking the mic stands as they pass by. However I can heartily recommend the fluorescent pink duck tape! It kept everyone at bay. I don't think most people consciously noticed it but it was quite amusing to see the effect.13 points
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Last night (just), played with Nine Lives at the Pittendrum Bar in Sandhaven - a wee villiage near Fraserburgh. Unfortunately, it wasn't very busy, maybe 15 folk in at the peak. The apologetic barmaid told us later on that since they had booked us, a bunch of stuff got organised in the "big smoke" of Fraserburgh which may have contributed to the lack of bodies. It was probably for the best, because I was far from my best. Having had only 4 hours sleep and basically waking up to go to the gig (work's Christmas do the night before - don't ask), I was so tired that as well as making a few pretty horrible flubs, I forgot to hook up my extension cab - did the whole gig with just the 250W combo and single speaker. Didn't even notice until packing up time when I couldn't figure out where my speakon>speakon cable had gone. Bloody hell. This dopey so-and-so played the Neep One followed by the DeArmond Jetstar (the wonky boi) into a single Markbass CMD combo sitting on top of a completely ornamental New York 121 cab. FFS.13 points
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My gig was slightly overshaddowed by some medical even that I won't go into here. We were playing at a very local to me pub, that we used to play at a lot and hadn't played at this year, ever since they booked us for new year a few years ago and then promptly forgot about. Anyway, management changed so played there on saturday night. I got there later than I would normally, normally get there an hour and half early to setup, but I was later than that, so when I turned up, the others were on hand to unload my car which was nice. For some reason it seemed a mostly quick setup (maybe because I had less time), and apart from finding a plug, that they had moved all of, a pretty easy one. Did a sound check, remember one feature of that pub is that it has shiney walls, shiney floor, shiney ceiling (a long way up) and shiney beams everywhere so remembered to turn all the reverb on the desk down (which you do and the band still say 'can you back the reverb off a bit' - 'its completely dry'). Bass and guitar sounded good and the sax projected - the sax player found an issue with his new nux sax sender, the unit charges in the case, the case was fully charged, but when you put the unit in the box, you have to press a button to tell it to charge, and he hadn't, so it was dead, but he got 40 minutes of charge before and charged at half time and no issues, seems a bit of a stupid design. I played the ric, but for some reason the output seemed a bit down. Gig mostly went ok, my dwarf crashed at one point when I was changing things, which leads to its most annoying feature, crashed it carries on as before but you can't change anything (its like the front end crashes), but unplugging it and plugging it in takes about 30 seconds to boot up and be ready, and the band picked that moment to not have much of a break between songs! I also for the second time ever (the first time being my first time with the previous band) forgot to do the 3rd verse of 7 nation army. As we didn't have any rehursal time we decided to just do the one of our christmas songs we remembered, the easy one, and still messed that up a little in the middle, but I dont' think anyone noticed that. anyway, crowd were unusually (for that venue) enthusiastic, and it was a good night from a gig point of view. Due to aformentioned medical issues, I had to rush out but not before hearing the singer talking to a woman who was trying to outbid another pub on us playing next new years eve!11 points
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I've come to the realisation that I have too many basses, and as I already have a JT4 I can't justify having essentially two of the same model, give or take a string. This is a Dingwall John Taylor 5 string. I've had this bass for nearly a year. It's in superb condition apart from a very minor mark on the back near the battery cover (see picture 9). I hand picked it in Andertons (from a choice of three) as at 4kg it was the lightest of the bunch by some way. It plays beautifully, and the Neve preamp is a great addition. I have made the following changes, but all original parts are included: Dunlop straplocks fitted Hipshot short stem Ultralite tuners fitted Six position rotary switch (see diagram for pickup combinations at the end of the post) Custom white scratchplate The bass comes with a very nice Dingwall gig bag and tool kit. I will also include a set of Dingwall nickel strings (which it also has a set of fitted), and a custom (i.e. expensive!) Heistercamp strap I had made to go with the bass. I live in NE Hampshire and am happy to travel a bit, say 50-75 miles, to do the deal. I have no box to ship it, but if you are seriously interested I am sure we can work something out, but UK sales only I'm afraid. Price-wise, when in stock these sell for between £2600 and £3000 new, so with the extra parts and the strap included I am asking £2200. You can see the only damage on the bass in this picture. It's two small dots that have broken to top layer of the finish but that's it. No idea how it happened..... 1 is towards the bridge, 6 is towards the neck10 points
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10 points
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For sale is my Cort C4 plus. These punch much above their weight, and are nice and light . This one is around 8lbs on my scale, with no neck dive. it has been a bedroom queen, never gigged, and has new (ish) Hybrid Slinky strings. the neck is lovely and fast, satin finish, and it is overall a joy to play. I am only selling as i am moving house and have decided to reduce the collection a little. i dont have a box at present, but can probably get one. Otherwise, meet you half way, or welcome to come round and have a little doodle. i think these are retailing around the £500 mark, and to be honest, if it was any other ‘brand’ would be more like a grand! I am continually amazed at the great quality Cort push out. my main gigging bass is their A4 Ultra Ash, and this C4 makes a nice addition to a collection or as a backup bass. I would say it would suit Jazz players, and folks that prefer the Sterling Stingrays to the US ones, or who like Ibanez SR’s. Its 38mm at the nut with 19mm spacing, so you folks who like precisions etc might find the neck too narrow - but who knows! cheers5 points
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We aren't going to change the situation so we have to navigate through it. Learn how to use one of these (or something similar) and stick it in your gigbag. Stick a jack into the effects return of the PoS house rig, tell the FoH demigod that the box provides a fundamental part of the band's sound and off you go. Or, if he can't see/hear you, get one your bandmates to tell him. The last time I did this was about a month ago, HX Stomp (rather than DP) as feed to FoH through a TRS-XLR male. I didn't even use the house rig, the foldback was good enough.5 points
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No good for someone like me: if you are going to draw that much attention to yourself, you’ve got to be a very good player!5 points
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Played with our 9 piece 60's band SHOUT! Last night in a pub called The Spateston Inn in Johnston just outside Glasgow. Busy night with punters and a Christmas night out from a local supermarket! The guitarist thought it was very funny seeing them in their ''civies'' and was tempted to go up and ask where the bacon was....We just about fitted in and lucky for us our keyboard lad was given the night of to see Madness (The band not the illness!!) So....8 band members stuck in a corner whilst the resident DJ had much more room and plenty of tables! He played for about and hour,we did an hour then were off for another hour! Far too long a break and we had to endure ear shattering techno (down with the kids man!) music! Good night had by all,nice buffet I recommend the egg sarnies! SHOUT! Higher and Higher..mp45 points
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5 points
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Hey, I have somehow landed a new bass. Was looking at an RBX but this came up locally and I snagged it for a great price. I have absolutely no idea if this bass is decent and know no history of the company. Has anyone played or owned one of these? Many thanks.4 points
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This, completely. I gave up being arsey about bass rigs years ago. Bring your own board, of whatever configuration, and your tone is there instantly - but make sure it is actually doing what you want, and doesn't have any stupid level jumps. Then, the amp is nothing more than foldback and, while obviously better if it's good, you know you're sending the right signal to FOH. Also, most FOH engineers will thank you. They'll get your sound with minimum effort which, when you're not carrying your own FOH engineer, is the name of the game.4 points
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A golf club Christmas party. Never had so much space! GR Dual 1400 and a GR bass 2x10 each side of the stage, with my trusty Franz and Dingwall running wireless.4 points
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Hi all, Here we have my 2022 Musicman Stingray Special in Amethyst Sparkle finish. Bought in July last year as I'd always wanted one, but a new car is on the horizon, this is being sold to go towards the deposit. It's a 2022 model, in Amethyst Sparkle, Gold hardware & Roasted Maple neck. Rosewood fingerboard with 22 Stainless steel frets. 18v electronics with 3-band active preamp. Neodymium pickup. Weight is a lovely 3.8kg. Condition I'd put at 8.5/10. The body is unmarked. A small nick on the headstock and a very small patch of light pitting on the control plate are the only marks of any kind. The nut has a slight chip on the side of it, but it doesn't affect the actual operation of it. The string sits snugly with no-issue/movement. Currently has DiMarzio Strap lock system in place, although is reversible if not your thing. Not looking for any trades or offers. Located in Moreton in Marsh, on the Oxfordshire/Warwickshire/Gloucestershire border. Will not post something of this value due to issues in the past, however, as always, I will pretty much travel anywhere aside from the outer extremities of the UK for a handover/meetup. Comes with original hardcase and Musicman accessories bag. Any questions please feel free to ask! See my feedback thread also!4 points
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4 points
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I wouldn`t say it was diva-ish to want your own sound if it`s a specific aspect of the band, giving JJ of The Stranglers a James Jamerson sound for example is not going to do much for the known recognisable sound of the band, nor for the fans who may really love JJBs tone and feel shortchanged for not getting it. It`s mainly for this reason that I`ve moved away from having a specific identifiable tone gotten from a specific pedal to that of a more generic tone achievable from pretty much most bass amps, I can easily get what I need plus it requires less carrying and setting up as well. I also then can essentially not bother the sound person too much (if at all) and let them get on with the most important bits, which to me are the vocals.4 points
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Because as others have said, if anything good was supplied it would get abused, broken and/or nicked. IMO if you are in a band that regularly plays these sorts of multi-band gigs using house or shared kit, being able to play with enthusiasm no matter how terrible it sounds on stage is a skill as important as being able to play in time and in tune with the rest of your band. Being able to make the best of every situation is what will get your band more and better bookings and able to move up the bill (assuming that all other aspects of your performance are up to scratch). I'm now at the point that so long as I can hear I am in tune and in time with the rest of the band I'm happy knowing that the songs are great, and if it's not brilliant on stage I can play through it. Being a bunch of divas moaning about not being able to get "your sound" is unlikely to get you another gig at the venue. Trust that it will sound decent out front and play your heart out on stage.4 points
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Absolutely not, noone listens to the bass anyway, you just need to put on a show!4 points
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Au contraire; I used to go to a jam night where a chap would turn up with a fully Xmas Lighted Status to plod some serious straight 8s all evening - you just have to have the confidence... 😀4 points
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It's genuine, I know the guy who had it made (for his daughter, I believe). There are half-a dozen short scale JDs out there. This is one of the more plain ones. It's a Roadie II, passive and was originally cherry red. The short scale design is referred to as a series IV. PS. Roadies are part of the Supernatural range of basses too.4 points
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I had a bass collected by Lenspeed when I sold it on here. The purchaser arranged it, and everything went to plan. The chap that collected was really nice and explained they do a lot of moving of expensive guitars for an auction house. If you go on their website I believe it explains prices for fully insured shipping. Probably the only company I would consider for £800 +++ instruments. Single Guitar Delivery from just £55 - Lenspeed Logistics https://share.google/qkd6eyxpC2fGs5uhX4 points
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I have spent the weekend building a larger waist height spray booth from my version 1 as it was a little too small to be comfortable. The dimensions now are 150cm wide x 100cm high x 80cm deep with a 6” extraction fan. Made from 18mm MDF. The front bottom panel is on hinges so I can open it up to be horizontal when spraying to aid airflow and a barrier for floor dust. It is also a handy place to mix paint and thinners. There is also a front top panel so that the front opening is restricted slightly. Extraction is on the bottom left of the back panel with a baffle to hopefully encourage downwards cross flow across pieces. The jig is a Billy Boy. i also upgraded to a used Devilbiss GTI PRO LITE 1.4 CLEAR with T110 air cap which is my dedicated clear coat gun now. It is a massive improvement over my budget guns and the finish results are so much smoother. One of the old guns will be my base coat and the other set up for primer. Air is from a SIP QT 100 litre compressor with 16 CFM displacement and 13 CFM FAD. The compressor is only about 63dB so much quieter and more efficient than my previous one. Finish-wise, I am using nitro paint and clear, 1k polyurethane clear and am going to try some 1k acrylic clear on a future build. It’s too dangerous to use the 2k stuff without a proper air fed respirator and certainly not in a garage attached to the house!4 points
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The 7-10 gig at Rockfield Music & Media went pretty fast. The place was packed. I don't know where all these people come from considering the place sits out in the middle of nowhere. Our performance was just ok. We had some good moments along with a few sloppy ones. I got lost in "Jolene". The dep drummer showed some improvement. The provided rig was fine. However the XRL out was not functioning so we miced the cabs. I wasn't able to get any decent pictures. Daryl4 points
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I don't know anything about their basses but I think when I was a Student in the early 80s, I used to eat their boil-in-th-bag curries.3 points
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I have developed a new habit since I retired 18 months ago. I say yes. Someone invites me for a walk? Come to a concert? Visit a friend? Go shopping in Asda with Mrs Dinger? Go to a meal with 30 people that i don't know? Yes. At most, it is 2 hours out of my life, and it makes people happy. And often, it makes me happy too! As Steve Cropper reminded us, Time is Tight.3 points
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I was a sound "mixist" in the late 90s/early 2000s and I can say that there are some useless sound people and some prima-donna d**khead band members out there too. My rule was pre-amp DI wherever possible, but if it was obvious the "sound" was all being done in the amp, I would take it post. A bit of discussion with the band always helped, unless they felt they were too important to speak with you. I can remember the bass player who insisted on using his own home-made preamp thing which appeared to output DC and melted the voice coils in the event's shared backline 8x10, or the guitarists/drummers who insisted on playing all the time when soundchecking. However, I have also been playing gigs where I have had to show the sound person how to operate their own desk, or get rid of some really bad resonance on stage, things like that. As for backline - I was never sure if this was an urban myth or not, but I remember a guitarist once telling me of another guitarist pal who once turned up at a venue with his amp that kept cutting out, only to find the venue had the same one so he swapped them after the gig when they weren't looking and left his in place of the venue's good one!3 points
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IME that's not the case. The last few gigs I've done (all fly aways) I have had Ampeg SVT or B5R heads with Ampeg 4x10 or 8x10 cabs provided. I used to take my tecampPuma900 with me, just in case, but I've stopped taking that now as you can't really go wrong with a SVT.3 points
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@Geek99 was right all those years ago about my gear being way above my ability. I don’t need another bass BUT the current shoulder injury needs a shorter scale length. If you listen carefully you will hear SWMBO’s howl as a Shorg Scale drops through the letter box (I know it won’t fit really)3 points
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Best wishes to you both, Woody, during what is undoubtedly a scary and worrying time3 points
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Probably our last practice at Studio 91 near Newbury as sadly it's to shut down in January. Played through this supplied Orange head for the first time and it just sounded beautiful using Squier Pj-555. After we were done I tried to lift it.....😩3 points
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Rare immaculate bass. Optical pickup system gives better sustain and less noise as no magnetic pickups (good for studio). Check out Willcox Guitars website and youtube review video by the Bass Whisperer. This bass has a rechargeable battery which lasts well, + charger. Wide range of sounds from clever pickup and preamp system. Quality materials US made. Lighter than a lot of basses as the body is semi hollow. These normally sell for £600+ Includes cover and manuals. No dings! Reason for sale-it’s not getting enough use for such a lovely instrument. PREFER COLLECTION. But can post carefully packed at buyers risk and cost.3 points
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Nah, as you will see in the whisky thread, I've been lagging behind with that. But yes, I was rather inebriated on Friday night.3 points
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3 points
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I picked one up this week and pleasantly surprised! Firstly, the finish! WOW! The sparkle is gorgeous! No idea why other manufacturers don't offer that many sparkle finishes? (Cost?) The sound? Fabulous. Not quite as good as my sterling 34 but pretty close. The price is phenomenal based on the build quality alone! Only draw back is the weight. Surprisingly heavy! Anyway, What's your thoughts?3 points
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Cheers mate! We really enjoyed it and in fact splashed out on a glass of water between sets Well.....we are Scottish!!3 points
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It's because bass isn't valued. I now refuse to play a venue if I'm not able to use something that isn't a piece of crap. I've almost come to blows with a few sound engineers for them trying to screw with me. If anyone says "pre-eq DI only" I immediately harden my accent to "full on Taggart" and generally something said in that voice does tend to get a bit more co-operation. Most live engineers are underpaid and as a result, don't give a toss. The ones who won't do what you ask when it's totally reasonable or do the exact opposite are the ones who I have massive problems with.3 points
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This is my first pedal board, using it with double bass. The Fishman Platinum has always been part of my signal chain as it has the tuner, HPF and DI out. The Aphex and the Grizzly are in the FX loop of the Fishman It was a lot fun putting this together - I can see why people really get into it.3 points
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I’ll jump in on this too. I’m 61, and I’m still fronting an original heavy rock band, the same band I joined in 1982. Were recording a new album and it’s sounding absolutely awesome, very pleased with it, and live were better than ever. My voice is still holding up, and young people who come to see us love the stuff, it’s old school, like their dads listen to, and it goes down pretty well. THAT SAID…….. a month ago, my best pal lost his battle with cancer. He was 59 and an amazing metal guitarist. I helped lower him into the ground to the sound of “Where were you?” By Jeff Beck. In January, my mum died. No great surprise, but still, you know. In February our drummers wife had a heart attack and died for 10 minutes. Somehow, they revived her and she survived, but unfortunately with severe brain damage, so he has his hands full looking after her. The band, keeps him sane. My point. If you’re young and you’re reading this, be all you can be. Take nothing for granted, don’t waste time being miserable, do the things that make you happy, with the people that make you happy, play music, love music, all music, and most of all, KICK ASS. If you’re old and reading this, all of the above also applies to you, x2. F*** getting old.3 points
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I’m selling my Eich BC112 Pro combo which is in excellent condition and comes complete with the genuine Eich padded cover and original shipping box. Here is the description from Eich; The BC112Pro combo is driven by power, punch and drive. With its 500 Watts you will experience every detail of your playing in a totally new and distinct way – completely unaltered but with lots of punch, just the way you like it. The well-balanced four-band tone control suits all musical styles with a perfect sound. The “TASTE” control allows you to emphasise the tonal characteristics of your instrument – everything between a wiry mid-boost, a bold slap and an ultra-fat Reggae or Motown sound. Jacks for FX loop, Tuner Out, Line Out, Line In and a transformer balanced pre/post switchable DI Out with ground lift lets you connect the BC112Pro to the outside world. The BC112Pro is ideal for travelling around the world due to their voltage switch which allows them to be operateded at 230 or 115 volts 50 – 60 Hz. The BC112Pro combo is fitted with our newly designed EICH TE12D-8 12” bass speaker chassis that works in meticulously calibrated enclosures to deliver an impressive bass. For optimum damping of unwanted resonances our housings are made with support bracings and dampened with acoustic foam. The combo features the new 4” CT1 tweeter with a ceramic-magnet system. In a coupled volume the tweeter convinced on one hand with his deep starting frequency, on the other hand, with its very flat frequency response and offers far beyond 10 kHz at astounding sound pressure for silky highs. All combos have an additional Speakon® combo connector for operating an additional cabinet. The internal speaker can be selectively switched off. At the "Rehearsal Section" a headset can be connected at “Phone out” and trough the “AUX-In” a music signal can be fed. The BC112Pro can be tilted in to a monitor position by inserting a stainless steel rod, which is located at the bottom of the combo. 300 watts as a standalone unit, 500 watts when an additional 8Ohm cabinet is connected. At just 14kg it is an easy lift, even for an oldie like me. Collection in person is of course welcomed but as I have the original Eich shipping box, postage within the UK can be arranged at buyer’s cost and risk. I could potentially meet part way for a bit fuel money.2 points
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Got to have a bit of John Holt now and again, from around 1972 Riding For A Fall, this video made me listen to the above, great footage and the voice is amazing2 points
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Are we saying that many sound mixists are convinced they are the main attraction.2 points
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Only that I have had problems with lag on Android tablets. However have now ordered a the one you suggested to try.2 points
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Or, maybe, the sheer dread of not being allowed to be a shop-o-holic buying gear with the enthusiasm of a kleptocrat’s wife let loose in Harrods’ with their nation’s entire national budget was simply too much to bear?2 points
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Hello. Thanks for the updates. I am checking the used market for a used Hi Mass bridge from that era. The ones that Ive seen that come original to this bass in 82 say "Fender pat. pending" on them just like The Claw does, however I have yet to find one that is stand alone for sale and I doubt that there are many out there. As Hellzero pointed out, the earlier ones don't have the logo? I like The Claw and it works and sounds fine, however the bass is 11 lbs as it is now, and going to a standard Hi Mass bridge may take 1 pound off of it and make it around 10. My Ibanez Blazer from 81 is 9.5 pounds which is a P Bass style bass, for comparison. I don't mind the 11 lbs on this one, since its a studio bass anyway. Last night I put Flats on it, and spent time dialing in the action and intonation. I got the A, D and G strings dialed in perfectly. Nice low action up and down the neck and intonated perfectly. However the E string is a tiny bit of a struggle. It plays perfectly below the 9th fret, but starts to get a little high action from there. At the 12th fret open, from top of the 12th fret crown to the very bottom of the string, its about 1/8th of an inch, so a little high but not unplayable. I can work with it. That E also has a bit of issues intonating. Its still a bit sharp (fretting the 12th fret) and I have to move the saddle all the way back in order to get it to be perfect. (it did this with both rounds and flats, so its not a "flats" thing). So.... ultimately the bass may need a light "shim" in the neck cavity towards the rear, maybe the width of a business card. That would help with the geometry and angle and get it a closer in intonation too. However as it is, its pretty good so I am going to play it all day today to evaluate exactly how I want to tackle this. This is an old skool, thumpin' P Bass. Its thick, heavy and rich like the best German Chocolate. Its got a deep "nutty" tone. Its got that 70s Pop and Soul P thing down cold. I'm playing along with a top 100 hits from 1979 right now (Blondie, EWF, Bee Gees etc) and it just fits in to the mixes of those classic songs perfectly. Its the sound. It also can do the early 70s Soul and R&B (Stax, Willie Weeks, Chuck Rainey, Gamble/Huff/Philly sound etc). I keep it in the Passive mode most of the time and prefer that over the active, but I could see switching to active for certain more aggressive style songs, or in particular live situations. I really like the neck. Its not too thick and its fairly fast. Its closer to my Fender Jazz bass than it is to my Blazer P. This bass is a beast. I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions.2 points
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It's simple, whoever bought the rig wasn't a bass player. 😒2 points
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Well, it's finally finished. In the end I went in a completely different direction with the colour - a subtle pearl white (my first bass hero was Duff from Guns 'n' Roses). The guy who painted it did the neck as well - it now looks less like an original '70s Precision and more like one that was refinished by a hair metaller in the '80s. It sounds amazing too - it's a heavy beast but the ash/maple really gives it some snap, which is exactly what I wanted. The normal deadspot you get on 34" basses is barely there either, which is a bonus. Nice low action too.2 points
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2 points
