Leaderboard

"The bass guitarist: The whole room is filled with power. Your power, pure power. Without you, the core of the song is gone. They need you and you know it." Has anyone quoted this to successfully negotiate a bigger cut of the band fee? Will try tonight at the Dog & Duck and report back.

Best stand well back....

Would have thought so. You can buy 'Universal' patch lead kits which contains left hand and right hand patch cables.

I tend to make an impression on 'you're only the bass player' types. It's usually headstock-shaped and always an accident. Oops!

I'm in the house band for the two Sunday for Sammy shows next weekend. I can't give too much away 'cos the line-up is under wraps, but with 5,000 people at each show, it's going to be fun. I'll take some pics and that, and try not to make any mistakes. Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge this is a 'boast post'. Apologies.

Well lookie what landed today! So... this is a Limelight Precision, with a '67 spec in a light-relic LPB finish. I ordered it last year, and had a good chat with the - extremely pleasant - Mark at Limelight to discuss the spec and the level of relic'ing. I wanted the finish to be a little more muted, so it glows a bit more, and he's obliged. It's a nice weight, less than 9lbs, helped by the Gotoh Res-o-Lites, which bumped the cost up a little more. I've just put proper strings on it (it came with fairly light rounds), and it sounds just like I'd hoped. A really nice P... and it cost significantly less than a Fender Roadworn MIM. I'm about to start a solid week of rehearsals, so lots of time to give it a run out. Happy days!

Here are my two new working basses. I had kind of given up playing in bands after doing it for around 25 years and had sold all my working basses but then an opportunity came up to join my friends band. They are a very busy, popular club band playing stuff from the 50s and 60s so I was in need of a couple of working basses. I've gone from doing zero gigs to about 60 a year. The first is a Fender Jazz American Vintage 75 Reissue and the second is a Fender Precision FSR 70's Reissue. Both are amazing to play and I love how they look similar.

I played this bass at NAMM last week - you'll just have to trust me when I say that the pickups are absolutely glorious, and this is the best Ric bass I've ever played (and I've owned a few, and not liked them at all). As to the "cheap Chinese knock off" comment, bizarrely I spent part of my time at NAMM (an entire day, as it happens) with someone who used to design & import exactly those basses. I won't name names since I have no idea if he'd be happy for me to do so. We both agreed that the new genuine Ric looked more like a 'fake' than his did! Regardless of that, I found that the look of the new pickups grew on me really fast, and I loved the sound of the things.

There's a guy on TB does them if you have no joy.

Ha ha! The funny thing being that was a lucky accident! Er, I mean I carefully selected the two pieces and precisely aligned the grain.....

I thought this was Alex and a co worker applying the Tolex?

Just recorded a quick noodle...sounds a lot like a P Bass! And loving the neo pickup, it has a little growl when pushed! I like the Fender flats too, but I can't help but think I'd prefer La Bellas. Only one way to find out, I suppose... Listen loud with headphones, decent monitors, yadda yadda.

My QSC K10.2 should be here today.

I have also completed the final sanding of the body and have started apply the oil finish. Really pleased how this is looking - the ash takes the oil really nicely. I do like the grain on this wood and the way it almost matches where the two halves are joined down the middle of the body.

What about the balding bloke with a tache in Saxon playing open notes with one hand while punching the air with his fretting hand or errm non-fretting hand ? Marc S - dunno about you but I generally lost interest in The Stranglers once JJ switched over to a more conventional tone about 5 albums or so in when the band started getting older and softer Other albums for me where the bass tone makes them are New Gold Dream by Simple Minds, Sulk by The Associates, Lexicon of Love by ABC and No Parlez by Paul Young. Imagine Wherever I Lay My Hat played with the bass relegated to the background. It might've been long forgotten . Everyone remembers the bass rather than the vocal

I think it's all about context. I used to play in a functions band which could have anything up to 13 members with full brass section and backing singers. In that situation my bass tone was very straightforward and un-coloured. In that band there was a lot of emphasis on nobody overplaying unless they were soloing. Now I play in a 4 piece Rock band comprising Vocals, Guitar, Drums and Bass. In this context I need different tones to ensure that the bottom doesn't drop out of the sound when there is a guitar solo. I only had a tuner pedal in the functions band but I need a pedal board fully loaded for the rock band (and the ability to tap dance which is a challenge).

I'll join this wee club - here's my effort

Bass doesn't matter. It's just the fat guy standing in the back. Everyone knows it's all about the singer and guitar player.

One of my Subway cabs had an annoying rattle that seemed to defy any attempt at diagnosis. Eventually, Mesa accepted that the speaker was at fault and shipped over another one. I had bought the cab from the Gallery and it was agreed that the swap would take place on a Saturday. I duly drove up and the original speaker was removed (it was a seriously tight fit). Lo and behold the reason was immediately clear. The guy stapling in the insulation had evidently refilled his staple gun during the process and a block of 3 staples were attached to the magnet and vibrating on the cone! I chose to keep the original speaker and was allowed to keep the (unnecessary) spare. So, I have a brand new and boxed 15" speaker in case I ever need it. Brilliant customer service from the Gallery, the guy came in on the Saturday morning on the the day he was going on holiday and Mesa Boogie for sending over the speaker and letting me keep it. Not sure I'll ever need it but there you go ...........

I agree with you Merton,It's my favourite amp too.

They aren't the brash cabs type. They prefer to not parade with their tweeters out.

In my opinion, there is so much variety and so most simple points won't cover all the diverse views. At the risk of using buzzwords, there is a gestalt thing (ie total is greater than sum of the parts) going on with a band and all of the timbres, tones, mix and there will be those that work and feel right and some that feel very wrong and most will be in-between (the acceptable zone). As far as individual bass tone then, I agree that most of the time, most of the public won't notice or care if it is in the acceptable zone. But some songs, some genres, some players (I'm thinking of covers here) are so critical to the performance that the acceptable zone is smaller and harder to achieve. For example, Mick Karn's fretless tone on Japan or Chris Squire's on Yes. There is also the personal aspect, if we feel our tone is good or even great then we have more confidence, we are more relaxed and we play and perform better. But I hesitate to imply that just searching and buying the best bass, finest rig, pedals to find that tone will, without practice, skill, feel, emotional engagement, etc. mean that we play at the top. (Another buzzword alert) it is a synergy thing: in the words of Kraftwerk - The Man-Machine.

If your band doesn't care what you sound like then you're playing in the wrong band, with a bunch of talentless Mr and Mrs Silly Billy, who have their ears painted on. Tonight the band leader told me I sounded good and 5 people from the audience came up and complimented me. Being noticed and liked is one of the reasons I'm in a band and standing on a stage. Audiences don't have to know about me but my bands certainly do. If people ignore you maybe you don't sound good. Sound better and make them appreciate you.

There are a few universal truths to bass tone, most of them already covered: - Most audiences won't give a damn about your tone unless it sounds wrong in context of the music. Use a punk tone in a punk band and a Motown tone in a Motown band, as long as you're in the ballpark they'll be happy. - That last 10% of the tone quest, this amp/bass/pedal/string vs whatever, only the bassist will be able to hear or give a damn about. But if they are happy with everything they will play better as a result. - If you have too much gear to play with you waste too much time auditioning this sound vs that sound when you could have been spending that time learning how to be a better player. I for one need to drastically simplify my choices available to avoid falling into this trap so I can practice playing instead of tweaking tones!

I also find that when I’m loving my sound I tend to play better, or at least am less distracted so more inside the performance. More in the groove. That will contribute to a better performance by the band and to the punters having a better time on some subliminal level. So they may not know why but my tone benefits the punters when it’s good. Yes, it matters to me primarily and I may be the only one who identifies if it’s working or not. But, my sound and my performance is part of the sum of the parts...

Slut red in fishnets

IMO it's a bit like customer service - if you get good customer service, nobody says anything, when it's rubbish everybody's up in arms. If nobody says anything about your tone, you're probably doing something right. Personally if I don't like the bass tone, I don't like the song.

If you are playing Level 42 covers it’s probably time to shut a piano lid on your fingers.

Too many of us are obsessive about gear and looking for that elusive tone/sound. If the money spent on gear were directed towards decent lessons then that tone/sound may be more easily achieved.

One of those "slowing down" programs for the computer is a good investment. You can isolate the hard bits and play them at reduced speed.

That reminds me of a few years ago at a pub gig in Crediton. We were well into the first set and became aware of blue flashing lights outside. Paramedics rushed in and went downstairs (where a punter had had a heart attack) just as our singer got to the line 'Doctor, doctor give me the news, got a bad case of loving you'!

If I'd seen somebody in leather trousers trying to sell me a guitar with a pointy head I'd have taken up something else......

I would have loved a bongo, but too many dials for me, maybe thats why I needed up with a silver, I have not yet evolved, but I like the black too

As a music listener tone is #1 for me whatever the instrument. I got into bass after hearing JJ Burnel on Rattus Norvegicus . It wasn't the notes he played but the tone that grabbed me. On the other hand I hate Steve Harris' tone, one of several things that puts me off Iron Maiden. My ladee and non-playing friends of mine into music are very much aware of the bass tone. They may not know what's making the noise but they notice it.

Yes, this is exactly how I look at it now. I should have just posted Got A Grand To Spend, Suggestions?

Fucus is a genus of brown algae found in the inter-tidal zones of rocky seashores almost throughout the world. Fucus, also called rockweed, genus of brown algae, common on rocky seacoasts and in salt marshes of northern temperate regions. I do not advise taking or eating any Fucus or other seaweed without seeking professional advice, from someone such as a doctor. Sorry..couldn't resist...

Fortunately I've been listening to nothing but Cardiacs for 3 weeks, which suits this image perfectly. I might see if I can attempt to channel the spirit at least, if not the musical caliber into some compositional chaos.

probably my playing then!

I'd have said "Funky in A minor, eh?" And then I'd have fired up the 2 envelope followers, bass synth and tube distortion pedals and got going with "Aah the name is Bootsy, baby".

Mike ( @urb on these forums ) was doing something very similar years ago in 2007, and later in this 2010 YT vid

I think they look great, especially now they do custom finishes!! Si

I never speak to guitar players unless absolutely necessary, so wouldn't have bothered me

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1443097078' post='2872158'] Thanks. I'd like to know when the types of finish changed if possible ☺ [/quote] So, to answer your second question, generally they switched from nitro to acrylic in 1968. Pre-’63 instruments vary, depending on the colour etc, so no strict rule, unsurprisingly. Also it should be noted that 1968 and later Fenders are not entirely AUC (Aliphatic Urethane Coating). What Fender did was seal the body (as always), and then spray the sunburst colors with lacquer. Now instead of using lacquer as the clear coat over the sunburst, they just sprayed two coats of AUC. Also the face of the peghead stayed entirely nitro lacquer, even though the rest of the neck was spray with AUC. This happened because the peghead "Fender" decal reacted with AUC. The problem occured because in 1968 Fender now clear-coated ‘over’ the peghead decal for the first time." However, it is also worth noting the following with regard to nitro vs poly finishes, which is quoted from source…. [i]All Fender Guitars made since 1963 are 2-part Polyester coated. Lacquer is put on top of the hardened chemicals to satisfy the general publics belief that Nitro Cellulose (nitro) Lacquer finished guitars "breathe", "dry" and generally are the bottom line for creating great tone. I'm talking USA, Vintage collectable instruments that mis-informed sheep have bought, traded, and sold for over 50 years. Every Guitar that has come from the Fender USA factory since 1963 has a hard plastic jacket underneath it. A suffocating wolf, masquerading under a cloak of Lacquer.[/i] [i]The two-part catalyzed coating named "Fullerplast" (Fuller for Fuller O'Brien, the products creator, and plast for the obvious PLASTIC"), solved all of Fenders finishing problems; encasing the deep wood pores in a self-hardening plastic that wrapped the body in a rock-hard solid coffin. In some cases we have found it to be as thick as a .060 string. Yes, all of the wood moisture and characteristics are sealed in a virtual time-capsule, only to be vented from the body through screw holes and paint fractures. Share this info and be the hit of your next guitar gathering![/i] [i]Fender rarely mentions Fullerplast, or the way it prepares its bodies before applying Lacquer. So, when someone tells you that a Fender "nitro-cellulose" or "nitro" finished guitar will sound better, have more warmth, or will dry out... this is highly unlikely, as the finishing coats will not impact hugely on the tone, if the body has already been sealed and wrapped in plastic finish.[/i] [i]They've been spraying raw Fender bodies with Fullerplast, or similar ‘plastic sealer coat’ since the late 50s, and comprehensively since ’63. Fullerplast is essentially the same thing as polyurethane (a non-catalyzed air-cured plastic coating).[/i] [i]To say that Fender "ruined" guitars by spraying them with poly-u is simply ignorance of the history of Fender finishing processes.[/i] [i]‘Fullerplast’ is a clear, sprayed chemically curing sealer, unaffected by solvents after it dries. It is made by Fuller O'Brien, hence the name "Fullerplast" (and all this time you though it was named after the city of Fullerton, the home of Fender). Fullerplast soaks into the wood and creates a seal that prevents following coats from soaking into the wood like a sponge. This means spraying the color coats is easier and the coats can be applied thinner (saving material, money and dry time). Even though alder is a "closed pore" wood anyway, the first few coats of lacquer will soak in like a sponge without some type of sealer coat. Fullerplast dries in 15 minutes, and is paintable in one hour. It is also applied very thin. [/i] [i]Most experts agree the actual product "Fullerplast" (as made by Fuller O'Brien) actually started to be used around 1963 at Fender. Prior to that, Fender used other products as their sealer coat, but they did the same thing. The sealer allowed any color coat (be it sunburst or a custom color) to not soak into the wood. Since the sealer is essentially a clear inexpensive primer, less color would be needed (and color costs a lot more money than a cheap sealer). [/i] [i]Another misconception about Fullerplast is it's color. The sealers Fender used including Fullerplast was clear, not yellow. The yellow seen in the unpainted portions of a 1956 and later Alder body is actually a stain or dye applied under the sealer coat. This was used to simplify the sunbursting process. The Alder bodies are dipped in a vat of yellow stain/dye. Next the Alder body is sealed with a very thin coat of clear sealer (i.e. "Fullerplast"). After drying, the sunburst procedure is continued by spraying the translucent red (starting in 1958) and dark blackish-brown on the edges of the body, which completes the sunburst look. Finally a clear coat is sprayed over the entire body to seal the colors. By dipping the alder bodies in a yellow stain first, instead of spraying yellow lacquer, there is one less step of lacquer to mix, spray, and dry. * [/i] [i]By the fall of 1964, Fender changed the yellow making it more whitish and opaque to better hide flaws in the wood. This allowed Fender to use cheaper Alder (and smaller multiple pieces) with more cosmetic flaws. The more whitish yellow was then sprayed over the sealer coat, as were the red and brown of the Sunburst. That is why the red and yellow now looks much different on late 1964 and later Fenders. This new whitish-yellow bleeds through the translucent red making it more orangish. Note that even though Fender was now spraying the yellow after the Fullerplast, they still continued to stain or dye the bodies yellow before the sealer coat. [/i] [i]Note in the mid-1960s occassionally Fender would make alder Strat bodies that were well book matched. That is, the glue lines between the multiple pieces of Alder lined up well, making the body look like a single piece of Alder. In these cases sometimes you'll see in black pen "no fill" underneath the pickguard, under the finish. This told the painters not to spray the opaque yellow on that particular body. If you find one of these mid-1960s Strats, usually the sunburst is much nicer than the "normal" yellow opaque sunburst Strat body. [/i] [i]Early (1954 to mid-1956) Ash bodies in Sunburst were done differently. In this case, the yellow is not stained, but is sprayed like a Gibson-type Sunburst finish. That's why 1954 to mid-1956 Fender Ash body sunburst's yellow looks "brighter" than later Alder yellow stained Sunburst finishes. This process created a lot more production work. Not only was the yellow sprayed, but the Ash body also had to be "pore filled" (sealed) before spraying the Sunburst. Since Ash is an "open-pore" wood (unlike Alder), not using a pore-filler sealer leaves a final finish with considerable "sink". This occurs when the finish dries and sinks into the open pores of the wood, leaving a finish with many dimples. To stop this, a pore filler consisting of fine sand mixed in a thick solution is brushed (or sprayed) on the bare wood. After some dry time, the excess pore filler can be scraped or wiped off leaving material in the pores of the wood, thus filling them. After some more dry time, the body can be sealed with lacquer and the color finish can be applied. This process was always used by Fender on Ash bodies from 1950 to the present. [/i] [i]Note there is an exception to the sprayed yellow sunburst rule in 1954. The first two months of Strat production (March-April 1954), there was NO yellow in the sunburst! The two-tone sunburst's center area was actually just a natural Ash wood color, making a "one-color" sunburst. The amber brown of the sunburst was sprayed around the edge of the body, leaving the natural Ash center as the "yellow" part of the two-tone sunburst. This changed by May 1954 to having the yellow center of the sunburst sprayed, giving a more vibrant sunburst finish. [/i] [i]Back to the yellow stain in 1956 and later. Since it was used for Alder Sunburst bodies, sometimes you don't see it on custom color finishes. But again, most times you do. Fender was a production shop that produced mostly Alder Sunburst finished bodies. Hence they just stained all Alder bodies with the yellow, allowing them greater production flexibility. Therefore most custom color bodies have a yellow stained body too. After all, you're not gonna see the yellow on a custom color body, so what's the difference? Fender just stained all Alder bodies yellow and figured out later which ones would be custom colors. Again, in most cases Fender also still used a sealer ("Fullerplast") in custom color finishes too. The custom color spraying process wasn't different from sunbursting till after the sealer step. This simplified the production process, and made Fender quick to react to market demands for Sunburst or custom colored bodies. During the early 60’s, when guitar production was really high, bodies destined to be a custom color often didn't get the yellow stain, Fullerplast, primer, and clear coat procedure. After all, if the shop was really in a hurry it can just spray the color coat right over the Alder without any preparation paint (if need be). All they did was spray more color coats (especially if a clear coat wasn't used). This would cost more in materials (custom color paint was the most expensive paint Fender used), but it sure was quick. And often, they didn't even clear coat the color. Some colors were really prone to "short cutting" by the Fender factory. For example, Sonic Blue & Olympic White often do not have the yellow stain. In the case of these lighter colours, this might have happened because the yellow stain was bleeding through to the white or off-white blue. Other pastel colors were also shorted cutted, having no yellow stain, no Fullerplast, and/or no clear coat.[/i] The only real tonal difference therefore, is because early thin skin nitro finishes are exactly that, very thin, and not thick like some of the 70’s paints, which were extremely thick in some cases, the thinner finishes can help to make the instrument resonate more, and this is what people can hear, notice and ‘feel’, so there is some truth in the tonal differences, but the reason behind this is not correct, it’s not just a simple case of ‘nitro vs poly’. Very anoracky stuff i know, but some of you may find it interesting. Cheers, Rick

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1443037750' post='2871784'] How come the 60s Olympic white finish stays white, but the 70s ones I've seen go custard colour? Something to do with lacquer? [/quote] Sorry for slow reply, I’ve now had time to collate the proper response, as I was off to land of nod when the question was asked last night, in reference to why some Olympic whites yellow with age, my general comment would be that it is a misconception that Fender used Nitro on ALL early finishes, according to the original Fender Colour Chart, it shows Olympic White as being: "Olympic White Lucite 2818-L." This is one of the acrylics. But when need arose, they would obtain what was required from any one of several local suppliers, and that means they also used Duco cellulose finish, although rarely, 90% of OW finishes from this period are Lucite, although custom colour basses from ’60-’61 are extremely rare, most custom colour OW instruments of this era are Jazzmasters, all of which I’ve seen have been Lucite, with or without nitro clear coat, and hardly any yellowing To note: You can spray cellulose over acrylic, but you cannot spray acrylic over cellulose... it would "pickle". This means that if they used acrylic, then they would finish up by spraying Clear Cellulose coats over as a topcoat. However, it does not "yellow" in the same way an all cellulose finish can do, rather the white remains very white looking, and the clear coat rarely exhibits crazing to any great extent, probably due to the slightly "elastic" or plasticy nature of acrylic paint. Here’s some quotes that probably explain better, and more comprehensively than me. Extract from Fender.info site: [i]….Back to the issue of Fender using only nitrocellulose paint. What Fender really did was use the colors as available from DuPont, be it Lucite acrylic or Ducco nitrocellulose. But they always used clear lacquer that was nitrocellulose based. The cause of the yellowing clear nitrocellulose lacquer is largely, but not entirely, environmental. Ultraviolet (UV) light from the sun or fluorescent lights will accelerate the process. Air quality problems (smoking, smog) can also contribute significantly. But the nature of the lacquer beast is that nitrocellulose clear will yellow, to some degree, no matter how the instrument is stored, and is more obvious on nitro colours with nitro clear.[/i] Extract from another vintage Fender source; “There's something mysterious and fascinating about the original Fender custom colors. There is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about what colors were available and when they were originally offered. And when it comes to the actual finish types it can get even more confusing. The first thing to understand is what type of finishes Fender was using during the late 1950's and early 1960's. All of the original custom colors were based on automotive colors available at the time from the big car manufacturers. Fender was simply using the same finishes that were supplied to those companies for it's own instruments. Originally Fender only did custom colors upon request and the customer could choose whatever color they wanted, a truly custom color option. But in 1958 Fender standardized all their custom colors and what they offered was what you had to choose from. Fender's main supplier at the time was DuPont, which used two basic types of finishes. Duco: a brand name for nitrocellulose lacquer and Lucite: a brand name for acrylic lacquer. Depending on the color either one of these finishes was used on Fender instruments. Now I know what many have must be thinking, "I thought Fender only used nitrocellulose lacquer back then". Well they didn't....classic custom colors like Olympic White, Lake Placid Blue, and Burgundy Mist were acrylic lacquers. Keep in mind that we're talking about the color coat only and both of these finishes were lacquers. Nitrocellulose lacquer uses a celluloid based binder and acrylic lacquer uses an acrylic based binder. Fender then covered both types of coats with a nitrocellulose clear coat, so yes Fender did technically use nitrocellulose on all it's basses back then, as clear coat.....if they had one. There have been some cases when Fender didn't use the nitrocellulose clear top coat on certain basses. Those instruments had that step skipped, presumably depending on the color and how fast they needed the bass. Many Olympic White basses never received the nitro top coat and as a result they didn't yellow like most do as they aged, instead keeping their original white finish to this day. Most of these examples tend to be from the very early 1960's. Remember that the Olympic white base coat was an acrylic lacquer and therefore did not yellow over time, however some of those Fenders got the clear nitro top coat over the white which would slowly yellow the color over time, mostly due to UV light, smoke and other environmental factors, so well gigged instruments could show some yellowing. That's why you sometimes see yellowed vintage Olympic White basses with whiter areas where the finish has worn through the nitro top clear coat to the acrylic base coat. Color Changes The only basses where this never happened were ones finished with a metallic color. All metallic finishes had to have the clear nitro top coat otherwise the paint would oxidize very quickly. The non metallic finishes, called the pastel colors did not need the top coat although they often got one anyway. A metallic color like Lake Placid Blue was acrylic based but because they all received the nitro top coat the color would often change over time...sometimes radically. Many vintage Lake Placid Blue Fenders today look quite green and are sometimes confused with other Fender colors like Ocean Turquoise or Sherwood Green. The tendency for vintage colors to change over time as led to one of the biggest Fender custom color mysteries of all. Coral or Coral Pink and Salmon Pink have been rumored for years to be rare Fender custom colors, only turning up now and then. In reality Fender never offered these colors, they were most likely Fiesta Red (which has lots of pink in it) that had faded over the years and turned a much lighter shade. Keep in mind that Fender did not always use the exact same paint every year or even every month. Although the paints were originally supplied by DuPont and all the color chips that were used as a reference were from DuPont, Fender would use whatever paint supplier was the best deal at the time. So even though they matched the paint as best they could to the color chips, some colors varied a little over the years. Another interesting thing about the custom colors is which bodies Fender would choose for them. Generally speaking Fender would try to use bodies that had less than stellar wood grain. As most of the standard basses back then were sunburst finishes and the wood grain would be seen, Fender of course wanted to use only the best looking wood bodies for that finish. Fender would usually use the inferior looking bodies for all the custom colors, being that no one was going to see the wood anyway. But that was not always the case. If Fender was in a real hurry or if there was a botched sunburst finish handy (and there always was) they would sometimes spray a custom color right over a sunburst body. It made financial sense too, since re-doing a sunburst finish was more time consuming than just spraying it with a solid color and even using a perfectly good sunburst body for a rush job eliminated other lengthy prepping steps, plus Fender charged an extra 5% on all custom colors so any way they could speed up the process meant more profit for them and happier customers and vendors getting their basses quicker. Hope that helps? Rick