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Substitute


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9 hours ago, MartinB said:

It's mentioned in passing, not central to his persona. As many others have already said, it doesn't sound like The Who meant it to be a statement.

They certainly didn't: there's an interview with the group from around that time where Townshend expresses his surprise that some writers and critics were devoting so much time to analysing the song, when he was just going through a bit of a whimsical phase and being a bit more light-hearted with his writing. Further evinced by the single they were there to promote at the time, which was I'm A Boy.

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I was around 15/16 when Substitute was released in 1966, and in those days a large percentage of the older generation were still racist, or would make racist comments about black people.

But at this time, young white people were starting to ignore the ignorant older generation and started to see through the colour thing, this was the original "mod" era in which the Who were a big part of, and whenever you look back at old footage of groups of mods, you will see quite a lot of black youngsters in amongst them, and when we heard that particular line, we just thought it was mean't to say, "so what? if my dad was black", we certainly didn't care, including our black friends.

The music of the sixties really helped to bring us all together imo, with Ska, Reggae, Soul, Motown, Blues, etc, being listened to by all of us black or white.

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19 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

You and I have heard different versions of where that lyric came from, then. And he doesn't sing that line these days either. Anyroad, we just don't want to end up inadvertently offending anyone with it. I have heard the song for years and never picked up on it being "quoted" from someone or in character. Interesting! 

i heard it on Absolute radio this morning, and that verse had been edited out!

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6 hours ago, JellyKnees said:

Swearing at people in work isn't professional though, irrespective of what kind of environment you are working in. You certainly wouldn't get away with it in my workplace. Sounds like this person you choose to label a snowflake stood up to some typical alpha male bs macho behaviour, and you don't like it. Good.

We are not professionals, we work in a factory, and believe me, the women are worse. The bloke asks us if anyone knows if anyone here can supply heroin, and constantly swears, then cries to HR is a bit rich really. Yup, a snowflake. If he said at the start that he didn`t like swearing, and refrained from it, then I would say he would have every right to go to HR, and I would say fair play. There is a difference. I think he is a bit of a strange one, as he has had 5 jobs in 2 years. The last one was Honda, and he told us that he was asked why he was doing , whatever he was doing. He quit on the spot because they questioned what he was doing, and why he was doing it, but he said he wasn`t doing anything wrong. I don`t think he likes to be told what to do and how to do it. If it gets really busy, he said he will walk out on his crew

 

Edited by timmo
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26 minutes ago, arthurhenry said:

What about the implicitly sexist criticism of his partner for not doing any washing and the suggestion that his mum will do it all. Why shouldn't he or his dad do some too?

Perhaps the song is written from the point of view of a patron of a laundry. He could just be after a service wash.

It would explain why he mentions that his suit is made of of sack, different washing cycle probably.

 

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This walking-on-eggshells-dont't-offend-anyone stuff isn't very rock 'n' roll, is it? Surely the original intention of rock 'n' roll was to shake people up a bit?

Deciding to be offended by decades-old pop lyrics is a middle-class, first-world issue. IMHO, of course.

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11 minutes ago, discreet said:

This walking-on-eggshells-dont't-offend-anyone stuff isn't very rock 'n' roll, is it? Surely the original intention of rock 'n' roll was to shake people up a bit?

Deciding to be offended by decades-old pop lyrics is a middle-class, 21st Century first-world issue. IMHO, of course.

Fixed for you. :)

Oh, and I agree.

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43 minutes ago, discreet said:

This walking-on-eggshells-dont't-offend-anyone stuff isn't very rock 'n' roll, is it? Surely the original intention of rock 'n' roll was to shake people up a bit?

Deciding to be offended by decades-old pop lyrics is a middle-class, first-world issue. IMHO, of course.

Beat everyone up and close the thread.

 

I like the Roger Daltrey stutter in your post. :biggrin:

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On 25/01/2018 at 19:59, lemmywinks said:

You realise everybody else is discussing this casually and you're the one who's overreacted?

I would have a think about that before labelling anyone a snowflake.

No you're are still a snowflake and anyone else who are offended by trivialities that back in the day no one even bothered about.ok mush

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On 25/01/2018 at 19:59, lemmywinks said:

You realise everybody else is discussing this casually and you're the one who's overreacted?

I would have a think about that before labelling anyone a snowflake.

Sounds to me like your'e the one who has overreacted about someone overreacting about something which hasn't been overreacted to .:biggrin:

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I think racism is a very big word which is being shoehorned into ever tinier gaps in our minds. It's to the point where the mere mention of ethnicity can garner nervous glances in conversation.

Unless explicitly racist, in the proper sense of the word, I wouldn't worry myself about a lone phrase in a pop song, particularly one as ambiguous as this. There are a large number of openly National Socialist bands out there- in my experience, largely as offshoots of the Hardcore Punk and Black Metal genres-but I'm sure there's plenty out there in other genres.

In any case, there are bands out there writing songs, or indeed entire catalogues, expressing and encouraging racist views and actions, and intending to incite racial hatred. Many of them are linked to NS organisations, and some band members have taken part in extremist action. With the background of that nasty, vicious sh*t going on in the world, a bit of social commentary from Pete and Rog, whatever their intention, doesn't seem particularly offensive either way.

In other news, didn't a school in Australia try censoring Baa Baa Black Sheep again last year?

Edited by Jus Lukin
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