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Am I too opinionated to be in a band?


Mickeyboro

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I seem to have a history of being too opinionated and probably missing out as a result. But am I reasonable or a pain in the neck?

Recently auditioned for a Commitments type group. Learned five songs, all uptempo stuff. The drummer was about 19 and, at my audition, tore into everything at a rate of knots. I commented on this, and also asked if we could do a ballad (My Girl) as a contrast. They played that too fast, too... I didn’t comment, but knew my goose was cooked. 

More recently auditioned for a 70s Fleetwood Mac tribute. The volume at the first rehearsal was way too loud, so I commented straight away and got black looks. They did turn down though. The second rehearsal I said nothing but could actually not hear myself at all!

I sent an email to the leader putting forward my concerns, and that the drummer and guitarist, both heavy rockers, could do with throttling back  and getting under the skin of the music rather than bashing it out with no regard for dynamics. The reply was similar to the one Lindsey Buckingham got a year ago... Go your own way!

Finally, for now, on Saturday I quit my regular gigging club band after 18 months of biting my tongue and accepting plenty of lucrative gigs in exchange for not rocking the boat. Sum total of my contribution - two new songs in an otherwise unchanged repertoire. 

Maybe I should just go solo... 😉

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The examples you stated sounded perfectly reasonable.  I guess it will always sound critical coming from a newbie.  If they've always practised/played "their way" then they are unlikely to change overnight.  Plus you have to build up some credit/respect first and that can only come with sticking around.  That said, neither examples sounded hopeful long term.    So no, I don't think you're too opinionated.

Regards

Davo

 

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Think I'll revise my comment above.  I should have said 'do you want to be in a band where you can't have an opinion?'  On the examples you stated I think you were expressing an opinion rather than being opinionated; the latter of which has negative connotations that you were dogmatic and unyielding.

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There is nothing wrong with having an opinion, it is the way that the opinion is put across that generally causes the issues.

It can also be dangerous to express opinions via eMail. Nuances and emphasis do not carry across on paper, unless one is a pretty hot writer. See some of the rows on BC. I am convinced a lot have only happened because of the medium used to get a view across. 

In short,  nowt wrong with an opinion, perhaps the timing and the way it is expressed is the issue?

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I think you should be able to give your opinions but so much of giving feedback in giving critique is in the tone and timing.

If mentioning things that bother you has gone badly a few times, maybe consider the way you do it? 

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23 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

I seem to have a history of being too opinionated and probably missing out as a result. But am I reasonable or a pain in the neck?

Recently auditioned for a Commitments type group. Learned five songs, all uptempo stuff. The drummer was about 19 and, at my audition, tore into everything at a rate of knots. I commented on this, and also asked if we could do a ballad (My Girl) as a contrast. They played that too fast, too... I didn’t comment, but knew my goose was cooked. 

More recently auditioned for a 70s Fleetwood Mac tribute. The volume at the first rehearsal was way too loud, so I commented straight away and got black looks. They did turn down though. The second rehearsal I said nothing but could actually not hear myself at all!

I sent an email to the leader putting forward my concerns, and that the drummer and guitarist, both heavy rockers, could do with throttling back  and getting under the skin of the music rather than bashing it out with no regard for dynamics. The reply was similar to the one Lindsey Buckingham got a year ago... Go your own way!

Finally, for now, on Saturday I quit my regular gigging club band after 18 months of biting my tongue and accepting plenty of lucrative gigs in exchange for not rocking the boat. Sum total of my contribution - two new songs in an otherwise unchanged repertoire. 

Maybe I should just go solo... 😉

I don't think anything you've written here is unreasonable but I'd probably have waited until another rehearsal or two before speaking up myself. It's a tricky one though.

And was the regular gigging club band originals or covers?

 

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Auditions should be like job interviews - you check out people as much as they check you out. If their style doesn't fit yours, what's the point  - politely decline without making them feel bad 'I was looking for something a bit more laid back'?

I agree best to talk through issues than use email.

For the loud band, you could get some quality earplugs, then turn up and blow them out of the fire escape...

 

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16 minutes ago, Bobthedog said:

 

In short,  nowt wrong with an opinion, perhaps the timing and the way it is expressed is the issue?

This.

Turning it round for a moment, if you were in a band that had been playing the same songs in the same way for some time and some new guy with (no offence intended) no obvious creds beyond being able to play rocked up and started criticising what you were doing, how would you feel?

They may indeed have it wrong, but as has been said already there's ways of approaching these things. Or you could simply decide it isn't for you and look elsewhere.

TL;DR: Hard to be sure from the info you've provided, but yes it is possible that you are coming over as opinionated.

Edited by leftybassman392
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The way I look at it is this, if you dont like what a band do, or how they do it, at the first try out, why would you want to be part of it anyway? If thats the way they like to do things, right or wrong, the last thing they need is the new guy telling them they are wrong. Keep shtum and just say its not for you.

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18 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said:

Turning it round for a moment, if you were in a band that had been playing the same songs in the same way for some time and some new guy with (no offence intended) no obvious creds beyond being able to play rocked up and started criticising what you were doing, how would you feel?

 

My thinking exactly.

If a band I was new to weren't doing things the way I like'd, I'd tell them that I didn't like them doing it that way and if it became an issue then I'd not be carrying on with them.

I'd not tell them they were wrong.

And I'd not send emails, I'd do it in person if at all possible, or over the phone.

Edited by ahpook
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It's a complicated subject. It's definitely not healthy when band members fume silently instead of having an open and honest discussion about problems. But then there is also a certain diplomacy required when giving feedback that may be taken as personal criticism.

In the examples you gave (too fast and too loud), I would agree with others that have said that if you point that out to someone and their response is one of defensiveness rather than "thanks for saying something, we'll check it out" then you should consider it a bullet dodged.

But then there can be other situations where the way you phrase something can be the difference between skilfully articulating a subtle point, and making an enemy for life.

S.P.

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I've been in the same band now for 10 years. We've recently started doing a few songs that I've suggested. The general consensus is 'Why weren't  we doing these years ago?' The answer is quite simple really; 'We could have been if anyone thought for 1 minute that my opinion might be valid. Instead, we've wasted years churning out the same sort of generic pub rock covers that every band from here to Land's End has been doing. It's a proper slog being a bass player who would like to be heard once in a while.

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Agree it's the way things are put sometimes. There's five in my band. We all feel free to be brutal with the lead guitarist because he's thick skinned and he takes it in, and he is usually better off for listening. For the singer we need to tread on eggshells. I got criticized for my timing in the intro of one song a few months back, I didn't even know it was a problem but the singer must have been fuming for months because he's so non-confrontational but he made a joke of it and at the next gig when we played that song he whispered "f'ing perfect" to me I guess as his way of saying 'thanks for listening'. I really don't like being criticized but I think if it's done in the right way everyone should listen and try what the other person is saying before they dismiss it.

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Great points made so far, folks. Appreciated. What a great forum this is  

One thing I feel strongly is that a new arrival (not me necessarily) will often have a more objective viewpoint which might help a band refine/improve their act. Assuming they want to, of course. 

My regular (till Saturday) outfit actually lured me in by saying they wanted to graduate from playing covers to clubs to better-paying corporate gigs, but actually lacked the determination to fulfil that. Hence my frustration with them...

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Things happen slower in a group setting than an individual. It might be that your criticisms, are true, but that they are long standing issues which gradually need working through. Thus while you feel they might be dismissed, they are actually noted....but that Rome wasn't built in a day, etc.

But having said that, I don't know HOW you put those concerns (as others have said above) so it might be how they were raised which was wrong (even though they were valid).

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Same kind of things i would mention when first playing with a band whether that be audition or 1st rehearsal. I simply won't play in a band that is far too loud at rehearsals or on stage. There's no need for it. Get a balance between quiet enough to talk over and just loud enough to let yourself get drawn into the groove or feel of the songs but it doesn't have to be deafening. 

If a song is too fast or faster than it should be its the first thing i'd say when finished the song. Depends how you say it though.

I generally make a joke about it being a punk version or a casual comment like "wee bit fast but otherwise sounded ok"

Is that not what all bands should be aiming for........an open and upfront approach to improving the band and the songs.

Dave

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It's not opinionated to ask a drummer to rein himself in nor to suggest a reduction in room volume. It's entirely normal.

Given that many of us here are middle-aged, life is too short to stand in the corner and smile weakly. Get it out. Give it to 'em straight, though always politely. If they can't handle it, that's their problem, though one may find oneself hooshed out of the band. Well, what's the alternative? Stand there and put up with a drummer who plays too fast, and / or lose one's hearing?

Fact is 90% of bands are utter numpties. We just have to work our way through them until we find the right combination of people then stick to them like glue.

Edited by skankdelvar
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I've been in too many cr@ppy bands either a bass player or  as a drummer where some egomaniacs just want a bunch of mugs around to help play their sh1tty songs and if you dare come up with some contributions you get short shrift.  I've now no interest in being in a band ever again being as I'm hugely opinionated and not that good at buttoning it

Edited by Barking Spiders
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I've learnt over the years that diplomacy is one the best assets when in a band, you obviously think there might be a problem by the title of the thread, it's too easy for other bass players to come on here and say you're better of out of it they're a bunch of tw*ts, playing Judges Advocate here, perhaps you are playing too slow, most live songs are faster than the originals, nothing worse than a ploddy covers band, and if the band practises too loud get some earplugs (most of them cut out a lot of the guitars high frequencies), a loud amp and stand in front of it.

I sometimes think us bassists on here are too quick to think everybody else is out of step, I've never met a band member yet that hasn't got a moan about someone else in the band, me included

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"Volume wars" is an issue but it needs all people to recognise and fix it. Its easy to be part of the problem, not part of the solution. 

And tempo could be a matter of opinion, not fact.....what do you do if there's 20 in the band, all with a different opinion on the right tempo?

Edited by paul_c2
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