My frends really awful band - advice needed

[Uncle Rodney]

I went to see my friend's band last night in a pub. He would tell me how great his lead guitarist is, how almost famous the drummer was.. etc. He's not a bad singer himself and a really nice guy. So I was interested, in a nut shell, even after the first song... terrible 😝 They are all experienced players but.. awful, obviously people were leaving, I could feel those who remained of the audience were gently mocking them. A band that can empty a pub. 🙄

 

Asked what do I think... erm.. what can I say? I tried to find good points but there weren't any. What can I say to the guy?? 😳 I really don't want to upset him.

 

My view was:

1.this "great lead guitarist" was just another standard noisy power chord+fast meandering solo type, usual standard for a pub band.

2.drummer's kit sounded floppy, snare was saggy and his playing average at best

3.singer (my friend) - vocals mostly not good, some was truly horrible, thing is I know he can sing really well.

4.bassman was average, just plodding away with no real expression, as in, every note was a full length 8th, his sound was ok.

5.the song set was an odd mixture of pop and rock covers, I know some bands do their versions and usually "murder" a song

 

I was thinking of doing guest appearances in their band but having heard them, I wouldn't want to ruin my reputation 😄 - I could do the "musical director" role but again that would appear out of place. I think they are too stuck in their way to want change.

One suggestion was just to form a new band with my friend the singer, I could then steer the ship without offending anyone.

 

I'm sure many of you have seen similar situations, any suggestions on how to approach this sensitive issue? The easy one is just to stay away, keep out of it.

[ped]

Move to a different part of the country

[Gank Bass]

Have you thought about emigrating?

[itu]

Been there, seen that. 

 

If you are an authority to them, you could steer them to the right direction: what's good, where they need support. If they already know you well, the project may be hopeless. 

 

I have seen a few bands that have made a very good progress in short time with few supporting lines and suggestions: 

1) Simple: Pink Floyd is a fine band, but Dark side on a wedding gig?

2) Slightly complicated: What's the meaning of the singer if the g-word (among others!) doesn't support the story etc.

3) Complex: Can you play hard, but not loud? 

 

If you think they could and can do better, take your time with them. Most likely no one will remember or thank you in any way, but their playing may become better. If they want to. 

 

By the way, I have never tried to play anything to those that I have given comments to. They have to find the idea by themselves. 

[Len_derby]

Tough one. Using the rule , ‘if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all’,  I’d probably keep out of it.

However, if asked outright I’d probably start with, ‘I think you could do better’, and see where the conversation goes. He might possibly agree given the opportunity to be frank.

Although, if he/they don’t realise things are amiss from the audience reaction, well, they might be beyond help!

 

Good luck.

[AndyTravis]

Depends how good a mate he is - I know some mates of mine would take the critique, some would lose the plot and sulk.

 

If you’re at a loose end and want to form a band, you could use the gig as the excuse…

 

as someone else suggested 

 

”you’re a great singer, watching you struggle with those guys made me realise you deserve better…”

[fiatcoupe432]

Just tell him you have tinnitus and that night was really bad and couldn't concentrate on the music... 

 

Honestly?? If you think he is a good musician , tell him that and tell him that he can do better . If he asked for your opinion perhaps he knows you are more experienced and perhaps your advice would help him to find a better set of musician who could also help him grow . 

Edited 11 hours ago by fiatcoupe432

[Lozz196]

I’d say don’t criticise but offer some tips/guidance, but make sure it’s advice that they would be able to take on.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

It sounds like if they keep going the way they are , the gigs will dry up . Not sure how long they've  been gigging ,from what you said .

If it was the first or second gig, then maybe advise  gentle constructive criticism if asked . I must admit you did make me laugh at your observations .

I would keep out of it otherwise if it were me . I don’t know if you could be washing the cat 🐈‍⬛ the next time he asks you to go along 🤔.

Alternatively they could do some show stopping songs when the audience dwindles . Tracks such as ‘don’t leave me this way ‘, ‘ if you gotta go now ‘ ‘ should I stay or should I go ‘ etc 

 

musos react differently to criticism as we know . Having said that ,you have to keep on improving. This includes taking criticism not in a personal manner , but something to spur you on to improve . Trouble with that is , when most of the band are poor , not  all take the constructive criticism kindly ..

Edited 10 hours ago by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE

[Franticsmurf]

To a certain extent it depends on how friendly you are with the singer. 'Best mates' friendly and you could probably, with some tact, tell the truth to him/her over a coffee or a pint. 'Acquaintance' friendly and it would be much harder and probably better to stick to some generalisms (needs some work, not tight etc) or just walk away. It also depends on how your credibility is with your friend and the band. I'm not questioning your credibility but if they see you as an experienced player and are willing to listen you could say more than if they just see you as 'the singer's friend'.

 

I was in a band once that was a bit like the one you described. From within at rehearsals it was hard to spot the problems but once we started to record the sessions, it became painfully obvious that the singer couldn't sing and the the two guitarists weren't working together and by backing vocals were dire. Maybe suggesting they record rehearsals or gigs might allow them to spot the problems themselves? I was briefly in another band where, despite basic errors in tempo and timing, every song ended with one of the band saying a variation of 'that was special'. It made me smile as my interpretation of 'special' was different to his. But the serious point is that it can be hard to be objective, particularly if you are within the music, inexperienced r lacking in confidence and so concentrating hard on your own bit. 

 

The trick, as has been said above, is to ensure any comments you make are not taken personally. Easier said than done and a lesson I learnt over time.  

[chris_b]

Was it a one-off bad gig?

 

Why do you have to say anything? He was a friend before you knew how bad this band was, so just continue being a friend and ignore the band thing.

[binky_bass]

Maybe he KNEW it was terrible (perhaps on purpose?) and he's just testing the strength of your friendship... To pass the test you must be straight with him as he knows it was purposefully bad, or risk failing by saying nothing at all, or worse... lying!

 

Or... it's not a test... who knows? Honesty is usually/always the best policy (assuming he has directly asked for your opinion), but tact must be deployed in the correct proportion relevant to the level of your friendship.

 

 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I'd look for something positive to say, like how much you enjoyed 'I predict a riot' and it really added to the song by doing it in the style of the Shaggs.

[Sean]

My approach in these situations is not to give advice or comment per se but to switch to a purely coaching approach. Asking probing but open questions and getting them thinking in a reflective way.

 

So, how do you think that went?

If you were to score yourself out of 10, what number would it be? OK, so what does an 8/10 look like compared to your 6/10? 

 

Have you thought about recording the gigs and listening back to spot improvement opportunities? 

 

If you could go back in time and play "Wonderwall" again, how might you approach it differently? 

 

How have the rehearsals been? Are they as productive as you'd have hoped? How different is that from your ideal?

 

Obviously, you can tailor the language to make it less corporate-coaching but this stuff works and gets them doing the thinking. They don't get offended (usually) and could then see you as a genuine help rather than just giving what they see as negative criticism. Coaching does need a bit of practise, though and isn't a cure-all for everyone but it's worth trying. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Sean

[Mrbigstuff]

Do they rehearse? Let them get better in their own time. That way you don’t ruin the relationship and they still have fun doing it. If they came to you and said we can’t get gigs, do you know why? Well then you will have to drop the truth bomb.

[Elfrasho]

5 hours ago, Len_derby said:

Tough one. Using the rule , ‘if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all’,  I’d probably keep out of it.

 

 

 

This is the answer.  Or if you're put in a corner, just say you enjoyed your night. If he's a proper pal though, you can rip the band to shreds.

[fleabag]

2 hours ago, chris_b said:

Was it a one-off bad gig?

 

Why do you have to say anything? He was a friend before you knew how bad this band was, so just continue being a friend and ignore the band thing.

Bingo. Keep out of it and say nothing bad. They're big enough and ugly enough to sort out their own problems

[Jo.gwillim]

Yes,  i guess they're a weekend pub band. If they're enjoying themselves and get booked all is well. It's got to be fun for the band.  I know I'll never be a great bass player, i turn up rehearsed and on time but i really do it cos i like having a laugh with my band mates. If your friend gets that much from his band he's doing ok. If the band recognise they're not so good so much the better, they'll work on it.  If they don't recognise they're not so good there's no point in telling them. 

[Dan Dare]

Saying nothing in response to his question is an  answer in itself. 

 

If he insists on a more fulsome reply, I'd look for something positive to start with. It could be that he has doubts himself and is looking for an outside perspective if the band was as bad as you say. You said he can sing really well, so I'd go with something along the lines of "You're not getting the support/back-up from the band that your abilities merit". Then you can go into detail if he asks for it.

[Hellzero]

I absolute don't agree with all the polically correct proposals...

 

Funnily we went to see my best mate (on guitar) band yesterday evening at a private party and it was simply awful.

 

I also very well know the other guitarist, the bassist and the drummer, the singer less.

 

First of all, I saw them for their release party something like 7 months ago and they were really ace as they are all experienced players with a good rock background and the singer is teaching ... singing.

 

What happened yesterday is easy to explain as they simply decided to deafen every people in that small place by turning their useless P.A. to the max which meant a 110 to 120 dB(A) (yes, at some point I measured it) permanent noise! 🤦🏻😳

 

And there was no one at any desk, which is a rookie mistake, especially as there were some kids in the audience, so the maximum output could not exceed 85 dB(A).

 

When I saw them the first time, there was a real sound engineer at the desk and the output power was not over the legal 95 dB(A) in a similar size venue, the result was an excellent gig.

 

Yesterday gig was so loud that people were leaving and it was a total mess sound wise with some timing mistakes due to not hearing themselves as the IEM were cutting, like the bassist told me when the host of the party came on stage for a few tunes on bass and guitar with the band, which was a bit if a release as they played way softer...

 

I was waiting for Cortez the Killer has I loved their cover the first time: An incredible mess yesterday, so we left before Kashmir, which certainly was a mess too.

 

The main problem is the drummer who is hitting the drums like a mad man and was ... amplified with tons of bass and low mids in the overall mix.

 

The bass player was simply impossible to hear as was the rest of band, because of that ego.

 

So I'm going to tell them it was really shīt, without managing anyone as they deserve it.

 

That also decided me that it was my last ever amateur rock gig.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Hellzero
Correct legal dB(A)

[Beedster]

We've all got mates who's bands are, by our standards, f***ing awful, and no doubt many of us are in bands who by other people's standards, are f***ing awful. Some of the most unmusical and unprofessional gigs I've attended have involved world class players or bands (just check out some of Jaco's off nights.....).

 

My answer to the OP's question tends to be "Well done mate, I'm glad I came, fancy a pint?" 

[Happy Jack]

Lots of great answers above, few of which I'd challenge, but my personal approach would be closest to @Hellzero on this subject.

 

I've been in this situation more than once, and I just ask them back, "Do you want the polite, supportive answer or what I really think?".

 

The easily offended will change the subject at this point, which is fine with me. Those who actually want to know are happy to dive into a deep technical conversation where we talk about high mids and volume levels and guitarists who are complete w*****s.

[TimR]

10 hours ago, Uncle Rodney said:

The easy one is just to stay away, keep out of it.

 

I don't think that's easy, but probably wise.

 

Did people leave because it was poor, or because it was too loud, or because they didn't like the music?

 

We are getting the hang of the football crowd leaving as soon as the drummer starts winding his kit up. Now that the football is on at 5:30pm there are still a lot of fans hanging around the pub when we arrive. Then the music people arrive later on, a few of the football crowd hang around to hear 2 or 3 songs then quite often just disappear. 

 

People will put up with some truly awful musicianship if they recognise the songs. 

 

If the punters are pinned against the back wall, its too loud, if people are sitting at tables right in front of the band, it's not dancy enough and possibly not loud enough. We clear a dance area as well as clear the 'stage' area. 

[Misdee]

I'd be honest and tell them what I really thought from the get-go, in a discreet but frank and honest way. Your friend might well respect you more for doing so. Unless your friend is particularly vulnerable or overly sensitive then I don't think telling the truth is wrong in this instance.

[Steve Browning]

The bit that intrigues me is your comment that your friend is a good singer. It sounds that he is demotivated and may be asking for your opinion to confirm his own. Have you asked him what he thinks? 

 

It's difficult. If someone asks your opinion, it's disrespectful to be dishonest. That doesn't mean you have to be unpleasant about it, but criticism (in its literal sense) is always helpful. That is equally true when it's not entirely positive.