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My dad, who died less than a year ago at 92, used to tell a story. When his brother was a baby and he was about 12, a minister who was visiting the parish called round. My grandmother offered him the baby to hold, and while he was holding my uncle, he started crying. It was the first time he'd ever been offered to hold a white baby. Old people grew up in a time of casual racism, but not all old people are racists.

I've read this thread with interest, and not a little disquiet... In a band with bigots? No. None in my life either, and that includes family, they get called out and told why they're being cut loose and then they go. It's a hard and fast rule. I'm minded of the current meme "You're looking for the tolerant left? They're down the hall, this is the f*ck off and die you f*sc*st m*th*rf*ck*r left." Carl Popper coined the Paradox of Tolerance, in that if a tolerant group tolerates an intolerant group, the tolerant will be disrupted and destroyed by the intolerant. Fascism, racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, the list goes on. These are not tolerant people and should be confronted and combated wherever they appear. Fascism in particular, with it's rising profile again across the world, is not to be tolerated or debated, it is to be fought and destroyed. We learned that a lesson in 1939-45 and it cost millions of lives, that we are having to deal with it again simply means nearly all the people who remember the bitter evil of Nazism are now dead, and the people in power are making that same mistakes of appeasement or co-operation. "No politics" is a great rule for a forum of bassists, so let's get back to discussing how many strings is the right number, and what they should be made of... Tonewoods anyone?

Some red herrings there. White grooming gangs outnumber non-white ones massively. I've yet to see a protest about them. "large numbers of migrants" is similarly loaded. There's about 30K in "asylum" hotels. That's about a quarter of Wembley stadium. Some elements have managed to petrify a nation of 70 million people over one quarter capacity of Wembley. They also never mention that one of the reasons it is now so difficult to deal with the actually small numbers of boat crossings is that the thing that cannot be named ended the treaties to return people to the first EU country they went to. I think you can usually tell when a person is coming from a position other than racism. They come with verifiable facts about public services for example. They don't generalise or demonise. They don't come with "They all get free ipads" type nonsense that could be shown to be wrong with 10 seconds of google-fu. They also tend to at least attempt some sort of suggestion for improvement in the process instead of a "I don't like it / them" rant. Anyone who enjoyed Carswell saying "From Epping to the shining sea, lets make England Abdul Free" the other day is probably not actually bothered by facts other than they don't like brown people. Anyone like the LBC caller who said he didn't care about an entire economy crash or people dying in hospitals due to lack of staff as long as all the foreigners were thrown out is probably not really troubled by the concept of rational thought.

I grew up in a political household, grandad was leader of the council and charged debates at gatherings was the norm. Fall-outs were regular and (usually) temporary. My folks voted for Brexit. They voted against the interests of themselves, their children and their own grandchildren despite myriad warnings and bundles of evidence telling them that was the case. That’s not something that should be brushed off IMO. Mayhap i have unusual views on ‘family’ as I don’t buy this thing that ‘there’s nothing more important than family’ - it’s a mindless trope IMO

I'm out. I've made my position clear. If you're a right wing boor who says bad things about/wishes ill upon people they don't even know based upon where they came from/what religion they adhere to/gender/skin colour/pick an arbitrary reason to make your odious point, then stay the f out of my way. No doubt you'll call me "woke" - whatever the f that means.

it’s not just for Christmas

Democracy does appear to be in its death throes. For much of history there were basically two political parties in most democratic nations. As a gross simplification one party supported the needs of the working majority and sought to level the playing field and re-allocate resources. The other was motivated by the concept of deregulation, free trade and represented the interests of the owners of production. The sorry state of politics now is largely down to these peripheral ideological differences that do nothing to address the problems that most of us are experiencing. Wake up people you’re being manipulated and your pockets are being picked. The circumstances that are conspiring against you are not caused by anyones gender, religion, passport or sexuality and likewise focusing on these things will not pay for your groceries or pay your rent.

My experiment this morning was to try a transparent light blue over the dark base colour. I applied it only to the end of the body so it catches the light. It definitely gives a subtle depth. Apologies for the construction sounds! 20250905_091820.mp4

Old people can't change their minds? My 85 year old mother, a lifelong unquestioning Tory voter, will never vote for them again after seeing the mess they've made of the county. Being old is no excuse, neither is being young or uneducated or poor or rich, Bigotry is born in ignorance and grows in darkness, it poisons young and old alike. Drag it into the light and kill it.

As long as people are polite and respectful there should be no problem. People have differences, they are flawed and nobody is perfect or invulnerable. Times change, people change, attitudes change. There really has to be tolerance, respect and forgiveness or it is going to get really ugly out there. One thing I would say about getting older is your world shrinks and things start to become more of a challenge than an opportunity. On the flip side I think people get more phlegmatic and possibly a little less certain about what is the right way to be. I certainly see more capacity for forgiveness in the older generation. There is a slight tendency towards absolutism creeping into the world now. Ideally I want to stay living in a city as I get older because being around many different cultures, ages, backgrounds, religions is a healthy and positive thing. It’s difficult to believe all of the fear mongers in the media and in power when you walk down the street and see most people are the same. They face the same challenges, breathe the same air, walk the same streets and go home to lives that have more similarities than differences to the home I go back to.

Also, if he's intending to vote in a party intent on dismantling much of what makes us great on the basis of having unquestioningly accepted a load of fear-mongering inaccuracies he's going to be called out on it. Because it's not about "differing opinions" - it's about cynical populism being used to serve the interests of the few rather than the many. And that's why it has to be talked about: if grandad thinks we're being overrun with imported paedophiles who are being handed Ipods as they enter their luxury hotels, surely he needs to be disabused of this. If he genuinely thinks people are inferior by accident of place of birth then he's having Christmas dinner elsewhere.

I wouldn't describe it as woke either, the exact opposite in fact. I'm totally woke and I use the appropriate pronouns (ie the ones they want used) for my trans friends, relatives, and bandmates (of which I have at least one of each).

Apis mellifera Strangely called the "Western" honey bee despite it most likely coming from North Africa / Asia. Sodding bees. Coming over here...

No I have little interest in Fender shaped basses and even less in fake aging. However the reason for my initial comment is that it seems to me the market for Fender copies is already massively over-saturated at every price point from Harley Benton all the way up to Celinder and similar, so I have a morbid interest to know what each new entrant in this market thinks they can add that isn't already available. After all the Fender bass is now getting on for 70s years old with no significant changes to the two core models for about 50 years, and they were created with express intention of being simple to produce using 40s technology and relatively unskilled labour, which means that pretty much anyone with a workspace, tools and modicum of woodworking knowledge can make one. If I wanted a Fender copy with fake aging there are already numerous sources for one - off the top of my head Limelight, Nash and even the Fender Custom Shop, and I'm sure there's more than that; and for one that looks new the choice is almost endless. So what does this maker bring that hasn't already been done before?

Not till this Sunday when I pick it up but just got the pics from Alan of my newly built RSK 5/35 and the weekend now can't come quick enough!!

would I be in a band with someone who voted Reform? yes, would I be in a band with someone who voted for Corbyn? yes. Do I think that people with a penis should use ladies toilets? no, do I think people who are born male should be able to compete against people who were born female in sport? no. But could I be in a band with someone who thinks they should, yes.

I hope I never get so bored / tired that I wouldn't try to stick up for those being demonised for no good reason. “Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. The grave will supply plenty of time for silence.” ― Christopher Hitchens

It has to be left open to interpretation otherwise friends using words that they have deemed acceptable between them would be viewed as a tort or a crime. Circumstances matter That being said it will not be the person doing it that has the highest weighted opinion - but the person it is being done to. This is the problem with the "I make my own definition" approach because people saying that are never the ones on the receiving end. Like the old boy we probably have all come across who describes a local take away as a "Chi*ky" and says he isn't racist and won't change. When it's from a position of genuine ignorance, that is one thing, but once informed that it has offended others who have the mocked characteristic then it is a problem. It raises the question of once being aware is that old boy racist? Or is he just a very unpleasant person who is continuing to use something that he now knows is upsetting? I take a general view that the strongest weight should be given to those who are on the receiving end, not the giving end. As a white straight class person I don't get to decide what might be offensive to an Asian gay person for example. If they tell me something I said is a problem then I'll change my use of language. It might not be racist for me to not change, but it would certainly make me an arsehole if I didn't. If I can't make my point without offending then that's my failure alone.

It's a sad reality that every time there's an excited-sounding thread title naming a bass brand I'm unfamiliar with, I have a little bet with myself it'll be yet another bloody fake Precision. I probably owe myself around 20 grand by now. Although it'd be 25 if I occasionally took a punt on it being a 15-string singlecut coffee-table.

This is exactly the kind of self-righteous indignation I'm talking about. So now the benchmark of racism is non-adherence to the doctrine of the Guardian newspaper.. It's not within your gift to decide on my behalf what is and what isn't racist. I'll make my own mind up, thank you very much. I'm perfectly capable of doing so. And if I did enjoy the company of people who didn't fulfil your expectations of what's acceptable, it really wouldnt be any of your business. Moreover, you do me a great disservice in implying that by associating with people who have whatever opinions that I would be endorsing those views or be susceptible to them.

Finally

I'm not ignoring the original post but I do worry that with algorithms, we are fed our own narrative and this has in some way contributed to a huge divide amongst people. I have friends who hold the polar opposite of my views and I genuinely value the banter we have. In terms of somebody being racist, sexist, homophobic (& I would add prejudice against the disabled), I couldn't be in a group with them. Especially as extreme views often come with the "everyone is entitled to my opinion" view. Given the lyrical themes of my originals band, I think it's unlikely those sorts of people would be knocking down the door to work with me. I have made music with people who vote very differently to me and I have focused on the overall person, their musicianship, enthusiasm, passion and whether they are good company. Generally though, most of my band mates seem to hold similar views to me.

I'm not sure if anyone will be interested given some of the exotica other people are bringing but I'm happy to bring along all or most of my gear on the basis of being very ordinary but someone might want to try out now that guitar shops aren't a thing. choose from Warwick Gnome, TC Elf, Peavey Minimax, Bugera Veyron. Fender Highway One Jazz, Fender American Deluxe Precision, Squier Anniversary P, Burny Thunderbird.

Can we just agree that punching downwards isn't a good thing?

Go big, or go home...

Old music players with their violins, even worse. I try to keep my hands off of any fender based thread. The design is an old hat, electronics cheapo, and the whole concept was neatly described by @BigRedX. Leo did evolve, but there are lots of bassists here who - some of which most likely - believe that a P or a J is the ultimate weapon (no, not that Jaco thing again, because he decided to mod the existing fretboard severely). They were and are the stepstones, because they are so numerous and cheap (from many viewpoints). I have never played a P bass that I would have liked, because of quality (CS was far from its ridiculous price tag), or sound. The pickup looks like the design work was delayed and the result at that point was bolted on (sorry). Cumbersome weight and shape, as ergonomic as a violin. I have tried quite different basses during my playing years. I may not be a very good player, but I know what I want from my instruments. At the moment I play a Vigier Passion II the most, and for five string work I use an MG Genesis (I admit it could be considered as a refined J on steroids). These have super necks, and electronics that can really shape the sound. A P and a flatwound set may be the thing for someone else, not me. Basses have evolved if I haven't. Try a G&L if it has to be Leo's design.

Are they decent quality? That's a bit difficult to tell from a handful of photographs taken by the maker that no doubt show the best of the instruments in question. They look well enough made, but how can you really know until you have taken the plunge and bought one? As for the price, they are being made in Italy so, unless you are also in the EU, shipping, VAT and import duty will bring the final amount closer to £1350 in the UK for most of the examples shown on the Reverb page, and it you don't like it once you've actually tried it there is then the hassle of sending it back and reclaiming the tax paid which is no longer as straight-forward as it used to be. Personally I think that's a bit expensive for a Fender copy by someone who is still relatively unknown.

A general thanks to the majority of contributors to this thread for engaging thoughtfully and honestly in the spirit I originally posted it. It's made for an interesting read and I am reassured at the moral compasses of most of you. Not sure what more can be said, so Mods - I think we can probably close this now as we're getting off topic, arguing interpretation of law etc.

Rick & Stick? 😲 You are Nick Beggs & I claim my £5!

M'dear? You sexist b*stard. 🙂

https://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2024/05/solution-how-to-make-facebook-only-show.html?m=1

My latest addition:

The one in the video has 21 frets, the one extra note that every other copy, like the orginal is missing. 👍

Double the excitment!

I think it's really important that we talk about stuff like this here, at work, in the pub and anywhere else possible. If we don't, a vacuum forms and only the most vociferous and cynical voices fill it. And in a world in which unmoderated, unchecked, unleavened info comes at us non-stop (and frequently via channels with opaque motives and intetests) we owe it to ourselves to ensure that moderate voices and quiet wisdom are not drowned out. I'm fairly certain there are people who are currently being led down a particular path who would be easily swayed if real data and logic were presented to them in a digestible way. I fear for what may come to pass ultimately on a wave of populism fired up by ignorance, fear and half-truths. Bickering and semantics are a sure fire way to get discussion shutdown.

Hi Rob, I have found an honest politician for you! Let me tell you a story. A few years ago I built a few wedgehorn 6s and like you I needed Goldwood 1016's for the build and like you I found that the UK price was unbelievable considering that the price in the US was only about a $1 each. Fortunately my lady and I were holidaying in Vegas for a few days so to cut the story short, I ordered a load of Goldwood 1016's and had them delivered to our hotel and brought them back with me in my suitcase. Finished the wedgehorns and they were and still are, great. I bought more piezos than I needed just in case and the unused ones are just sitting on a shelf waiting for a use. It would seem that you have a use for them. If you'd care to message me with your address, I'll get them in the post to you FOC. Terry

It’s demonstrably not in your gift to decide for yourself what is or isn’t racist.

Extremism and bigotry both have definitions which are easily found with a quick search.

I have tried to correct this paucity by having 12 of them now. 🙂

They're the two at the back, on the left. Nice to play for sure.

When I wrote that I was paraphrasing something someone said to me at a recent jam: "I was at so-and-so's gig during the week and he made another of his unfunny woke jokes [eyeroll]". I should perhaps have quoted the phrase, as you have done. What I heard was an announcement between tunes which was something like (from memory): "There's this bloke I know who says he's a woman now! What's anyone supposed to do about that sort of thing, then, eh? What am I even supposed to call him? Him? Her? It?" I got the impression this was supposed to be amusing, but didn't find it so.

I play for fun, that’s the beginning and end of it. If I’m not enjoying it then I’ll pack it in. Spending time in the company of someone who’s openly espouses views that I find abhorrent would be a deal-breaker for me. Yes, they’re entitled to their views, and I’m entitled to call them out on it, or leave their presence (most likely both).

OK I'll bring everything

Both amazing and a disaster in equal measure. It was a dress rehearsal, on stage with lights and sound and a small audience from the music club/collective. The idea was to get us used to that environment and have our sound guy do all the tweaking before the big day in October. The first run through of the set was scruffy, some things were far too fast, though I was impressed that I could play them at that speed, if you'd suggested it yesterday lunchtime I'd have said no chance We had some weird effect with my mic, on its own it worked, as soon as we were all playing together something cancelled it out. We think it was the drummers radio mic as when that went wrong later I seemed to be back in the mix. The second run through was a total car crash. We fluffed outros, intros, the keys player forgot one of her solos and I completely blanked the third verse of Peaches We were all standing there playing bum de bum, bum do doo da over and over again whilst my brain went on holiday to the Seychelles or something! It was though, I have to say an absolute blast doing it, bouncing about, foot on the monitor, everything. When it all came together it was great, we've got time to iron out the wrinkles and we found out the set list doesn't quite work dynamically so that's getting a tweak. Plus, in a rush of confidence we want to add Grip as well, so that's my homework The sound guy was a bit odd. The vocals were getting lost in the mix and he was saying that he couldn't turn the vocals up any further. Surely then the answer to that is bring everything else down a bit and drive the FOH volume using the master fader? Apparently he knows what he's doing....

That emotional attachement to things is sometimes difficult to break, and I understand completely what can be a bit of a dilemma when it might be time to move something on. I sympathise with the OP. I have an Overwater bass that was in real terms the first proper bass I owned as a young lad and that's my attachment. For over forty years I've cherished it but in reality used it sparingly mainly because the thought of some bufoon at a pub gig falling on top of it, or knocking it over fills me with dread. I usually use it for short spells just to give it an airing then its back to being a case queen for years at a time. It is well looked after, is well maintained, and still feels fantastic and plays as beautifully as it did when new. There I go extolling why I like it so much, but it rarely gets used at gigs anymore and only occasionally now for studio work. It's part of my personal history as a bass player. Deliberating for the last forty years about what to do with it does make it easier for me now to put it up for sale, and see if anyone might be willing to look after it for the next forty years. It would also help knowing it went to someone who was going to use it, cherish it, and not just flip it on eBay or Reverb or the like at an inflated price. Another musician I know is the exact opposite, he has never formed an attachement with any instrument or musical equipment in his long playing career and even instruments he's played and enjoyed for years at a time could be up for sale tomorrow if something else takes his fancy, or he needs the money otr doesn't have the space. There are times when I'm quite envious of that mindset. My advice would be to think carefully why you are so attached to your instrument and if you can pinpoint that, and rationalise it, it should be easier to decide the next step. Don't though wait another forty years to make up your mind! 🙃

I just wanted to provide some feedback on @Manton Customs and Robin's work in general. In short, it's absolutely amazing. I had a body lying around at home that came off a bass I bought just because I wanted the neck off it. It had some old EMGs in it with a Bartolini preamp, but I've always wanted a Jazz bass style bass with a couple of 60's style, vintage style Thunderbird pickups in it. The reality is, it should have been just a cheap, buy a neck, put it on, pay someone to route out the pickups and away you go, but it ended up being one of my favorite basses to play now. The whole order process from start to finish was fantastic, there was an order form, things were made clear, I chose all my options. Nothing was too hard for Robin. 34” Scale, 20 Frets Radius 12” Birdseye Maple, Ebony Fretboard Nut Width: 38mm Binding: Vintage White The neck has the most amazing, in between Jazz/P-Bass feel, it's SILKY smooth, the action is low, and it is just effortless to play. The fretwork is some of the best fretwork, I have ever seen on a bass, perfectly polished and finished. I supplied the pickups, Thunderbird Bass | Mojo Pickups - https://www.mojopickups.co.uk/product/thunderbird/ These also fantastic, not cheap though. If you are looking for any custom work done, I would highly recommend Robin, he's a fantastic guy and well worth the drive from London. BEFORE - AFTER -

Does the world need another Fender copy with fake aging? And if so what makes this better than all the other Fender copies with fake aging?