How Important is Tone?

[bassist_lewis]

I've recently read a couple of interesting articles about tone both in BGM. The first was by Alex Claber (barefaced bass) where he talked about the frequency spectrum and what parts of it the human responds to best, the conclusion being that melodic instruments like saxophone, violin, and the human voice have a lot of content in the upper mids, therefore supportive instruments like bass guitar should avoid too much content in this region (unless taking a solo).

I then read another article saying that bass players shouldn't use the same tone for all songs/gigs. Now I personally feel that in 99% of songs/gigs the bass is meant to fill a particular region of the frequency spectrum because nothing else does and to go more bright/mid-rangey would stand on other instrument's toes.
Does anyone agree that you should you change you're tone for every song?

What about guys like Jaco or James Jamerson or Anthony Jackson? I don't recall them changing their tone. I even read that Lee Sklar gets annoyed when he sees bass players fiddling with the controls on their bass.

[ezbass]

I only change my tone for particular styles; a bit more treble for popping, a lot less treble for reggae, that kind of thing. For the most part iI stick to the same settings once I've set it for the venue's acoustics or the band I'm with.

[Roland Rock]

I'll tend to have three tones that I can easily get, either by knob twiddling or changing technique, depending on the bass. One has virtually no treble/big bass for the slow dubby songs, more honky mids for the faster lines which need a bit more articulation, and a general in between tone for everything else.

[BigRedX]

Completely depends on what sort of music you are playing and what the other instrumentation is.

In my current band it's pretty much straight up punk/pschobilly - guitar bass drums vocals and theremin. I have two sounds one of which has more drive on it than another. That sorts out the bottom end of the sound nicely.

In a previous band we used a of synth sounds and sampled loops and consequently the instrumental balance changed from song to song and therefore the bass sound needed to change to reflect this and keep the overall band sound even. Also some of the time the bass guitar wasn't filling the traditional role but was simply a musical instrument that happened to have 5 low-pitched strings.

[Low End Bee]

I roll the tone control off for our dubby song. The rest of the gig I have a driven low mid sound. To quote Happy Jack "That sounds horrible on its own but it's OK in the band mix." I wouldn't dream of having a different tone for each song. I've enough other stuff to worry about on stage without pressing buttons and twiddling knobs between songs.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1346667936' post='1791610']
I only change my tone for particular styles; a bit more treble for popping, a lot less treble for reggae, that kind of thing. For the most part iI stick to the same settings once I've set it for the venue's acoustics or the band I'm with.
[/quote]
this - my J stays with both pups full on and tone full open - most of the tonal range i need actually comes from fingering technique and playing further towards the neck or bridge

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1346667444' post='1791604']
Does anyone agree that you should you change you're tone for every song?.
[/quote]
isnt there more to concentrate on with playing the bass line correctly? an average 'non-muso' punter will quite easily spot when a bass line (or any other band part for that matter) hasn't been played faithfully to the original but only other bass players will comment/critique each other's tone

Edited September 3, 2012 by steve-bbb

[Clarky]

Been gigging DB for a couple of years now but when I was gigging electric (a P bass), it was volume full on, treble rolled off slightly and don't touch for whole set! Worked for me in noisy guitar-led rock/punk bands. Echoing the above, its hard enough for me to remember lines and play accurately without twiddling knobs each song

[Dr.Dave]

My tone changes when I change my strings - and that's only once a flood because somebody's given me some.

I'm a very simplistic dinosaur who put practicality first. I want a useable noise that's easy to achieve so I buy an amp who's neutral sound pretty much does that and I just crack on.

I think the argument for watching the upper mids is a good one though. Some horrible , honky noises around there that I don't care for at all.

As for changing tone between songs......I have a quick drink and wipe my hands on a towel between songs. I can assure you that makes me sound better (by improving my playing) than pratting about with tone knobs.

[thisnameistaken]

There are plenty of legitimate bass sounds, and quite a variety of different roles the bass can take too, so it makes sense to change things around to suit. I think it would be quite ridiculous to suggest that players should only have one sound.

Sure there are guys who are/were famous for one sound, but all that means to the guys who come after them is there's one extra sound they might have to cop themselves.

[Bilbo]

Personally, I think Swing, in Jazz, comes as much from your tone as it does your note choice. If you listen to the most swingingest bass players (Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Wilbur Ware, Reginald Veal, Charlie Haden etc), they have generally quite warm/round tones whereas, if you listen to, say, Eddie Gomez, Miroslav Vitous etc (even Ron Carter) (who are all great players but whose tone is less full and rounded), the Swing element is not so obvious and less complelling. In electric bass players in Jazz, this is even more pronounced. The only great swingers on electric are Steve Swallow and Anthony Jackson and maybe Jaco on a good day but a lot of the electric guys don't swing because their tones are unsympathetic to the idea. Swallow's tone has a similar feel to an acoustic nylon string guitar; quiete loose compared to a generic electric tone. Six string players have a better chance as the lower notes are more in tune with the swing ethos but, in a nutshell, if you really want to swing, it is a LOT harder on the electric.

[Lfalex v1.1]

How important is tone? More to you (the player) than to anyone else, with the possible exception of whoever's behind the mixing desk if you're recording.
I suppose that it comes down to your motivation and priorities. Do you play for yourself, the song, the band or the audience?

[Happy Jack]

Tone has been a major influence on my career.

[IMG]http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m496/h4ppyjack/Just%20Stuff/Sundry/Blackburn.jpg[/IMG]

[SteveK]

The only time that I'll change my tone/sound is when a song or section of a song where the bass takes a more 'up front' role or the mood of the song is vastly different This is done by jumping on my box and selecting a (well honed after many gigs) preset. This may include EQ, octaver, chorus etc.
The idea that EQ should be changed for every song is, IMV, ridiculous. The live gig and studio situations are totally different. In a studio an engineer/producer can take as long as it takes to get the bass sounding right in a mix. On a gig you might have a few seconds, and how do you know that you are actually improving things? Standing off centre, between drums and keyboards, guitar opposite side of the stage, vocal monitors a few feet in front, is far from the ideal place to judge how you're 'sitting' in a mix.

[Count Bassy]

Personally I think that tone should be adapted to the song. (As long as it can be done quickly).
Eg, the band I'm dabbling with at the moment does a Whitesnake-ish version of Day Tripper followed by Gary Moore's Midnight Blues,
and I definitely change tone between those two, Mostly bridge PU for the former, mostly neck pickup (and playing further up the neck) for the latter.
Can't really see either song working so well with the other songs tone.

Indeed there are times when a tone change within a song is effective, though I'd generally do this just with the fingers.

Mind you I would want to be fiddling for minutes with graphic equalisers and pedals etc. between songs - Just make you look a twat (in the nicest sense of the word)! .

Edited having seen SteveK's comment above: I wouldn't want to be changing tone for [i]every[/i] song! That also make you look a twat.


PS I still love that I can say Twat and it not get filtered out!

Edited September 3, 2012 by Count Bassy

[Lozz196]

I think tone is very important on recording, it`s important to the actual bassist, but live, if going through FOH, if DI`d usually it`s pre-eq anyway, so really it`s for the bassists ears in a live situation as on-stage monitoring. Unlikely the punters will notice it too much.

However, re pro-bands, if the bass is an essential sound to the band - JJ of The Stranglers, Foxton of The Jam - then it has to be post-eq, and has to be right, otherwise the whole band will sound wrong.

For me personally, I like a very warm rounded tone, but in my punk covers band, this completely doesn`t work, so I don`t use it. The overall sound of the band is more important to me. In my other band, the warm tone works, so that`s what I use.

So I just get one sound for each band that works, and leave it at that. Any changes in sounds I control by how hard the attack on the strings is, where I hit the strings etc - though have to admit that`s not very often, it`s usually hit hard, all the time.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Lozz196

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1346670149' post='1791652']
Tone has been a major influence on my career.


[/quote]

"I miss you so much, Tessa. Please come back." (you had to be there).

As for the other tone, I'd be happy just to be able to hear my bass [i]at all[/i]. Nobody else give's a big rat's ass and they're probably right.

[color=#ffffff].[/color]

Edited September 3, 2012 by skankdelvar

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1346669010' post='1791626']
an average 'non-muso' punter will quite easily spot when a bass line (or any other band part for that matter) hasn't been played faithfully to the original but only other bass players will comment/critique each other's tone
[/quote]
You think so? I suspect the average non 'muso', non Bass playing punter, would struggle to spot a deviation from the original bass line except in very particular places (eg. the bass under the guitar solo in All Right Now)

Edited to add: and if they do notice probably don't give a sh*t - as long as the atmosphere is good and the beer is cheap.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Count Bassy

[BigRedX]

I've used programmable amps and effects as part of my guitar and bass rigs for the last 20+ years. Changing my sound is a simple footswitch press away. Sometimes I even do it mid-song. In the band that used synths and samples the MIDI sequencer did it for me.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1346670050' post='1791648']
The only great swingers on electric are Steve Swallow and Anthony Jackson and maybe Jaco on a good day but a lot of the electric guys don't swing because their tones are unsympathetic to the idea.
[/quote]

see this is why I like Bilbo's posts, half the time I don't understand half of what he is saying, but armed with google you end up finding things like this by people you've never heard of.... and really enjoyed if you excuse him his shirt the trumpet part at around 5:00 is good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtZ_pKQad9w

[xgsjx]

I'm with BRX in the fact that it really depends on the type of music & what instruments you're playing with.
Some of our songs you could use almost any bass tone (with or without effects), others just don't sit right if you don't make it more specific (eg: played with a pick, fingers & top rolled off or some effects).

[cheddatom]

Sometimes I'll have one sound for a whole song, but more often than not I like a different tone for each section of an arrangement. Hopefully it compliments the vocal and guitar rather than getting in the way.

Edited September 3, 2012 by cheddatom

[Mr. Foxen]

Different tones for different songs, but some bands play a lot of songs that are the same for the purpose.

[Doddy]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1346667444' post='1791604']
What about guys like Jaco or James Jamerson or Anthony Jackson? I don't recall them changing their tone. I even read that Lee Sklar gets annoyed when he sees bass players fiddling with the controls on their bass.
[/quote]
The thing with those guys is that they each have their own identifiable sound,regardless of what instrument they use or how much
they may fiddle with their EQ. Every player's tone starts in their hands-you can get different 'flavours' of that tone by moving hand
positions and things,but their will always be characteristics in tone that are unique to you as a player-Jaco always sounds like Jaco.
Marcus always sounds like Marcus.You always sound like You.

[bassist_lewis]

Love hearign everyone's take on this. Personally I prefer to change tone using my hands, either by playing closer to the bridge or neck, playing harder/softer, muting on either hand, occasionally using a pick when I remember to get it out of my bag. Using EQ or changing pick-up is a last resort for me

[SteveK]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1346676272' post='1791774']
Sometimes I'll have one sound for a whole song, [b]but more often than not I like a different tone for each section of an arrangement.[/b] Hopefully it compliments the vocal and guitar rather than getting in the way.
[/quote]Streuth! I've no idea of the type of music your playing, your level of experience or how extreme your tone changes are, but it sounds to me that you're a FOH engineers nightmare . I don't mean to be patronising, but, unless you have a really good handle on EQs, levels etc. your sound guy will be spending all his time worrying about where the bass is in the mix, and not much else.