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Internet Demotivation

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48 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Why would anyone expect these "super" bassists to NOT be gigging?

Why would these guys find it difficult to play in a band with other musicians?

Exactly. Billy Sheehan said 90% of what he does, is being the bass player in a band.

 

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1 hour ago, chris_b said:

Why would anyone expect these "super" bassists to NOT be gigging?

Why would these guys find it difficult to play in a band with other musicians?

I've no idea if they do or don't, but putting up clips can be a full time gig given the quality involved

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It does nothing for me. Creativity is key. So they can copy anything that's been done before, well that's wonderful, but isn't breaking any new ground.

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When I was 16 I gave up playing classical violin after 4 years of intensive training as I knew I'd never be Yehudi Menuhin.   The same year ('77) I saw the Stranglers live at Cambridge Corn Exchange and knew with total certainty that I wanted to do, and could do, what JJB was doing on bass - was gigging one month later.

I've never looked at anything on YouTube, but I suspect much of it is the same self-indulgent [email protected] that punk rock was about breaking away from.    It doesn't matter how good you are, as long as you're enjoying what you're doing,  and doing it from the heart.

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1 hour ago, DoubleOhStephan said:

Get yourself off YouTube and get yourself in a band. Be good for perspective and upping your chops 👍🏻

I agree, but I lack gear and living out in the sticks makes it tough when you don't drive.

Still, I keep my eyes open. 

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When I was a kid we used to go into music shops and on one the overbearing guys used to play rapid fire licks to intimidate you.
 

I subsequently went into another shop (Remus Sound in Gloucester) and the guy took an hour talking me through the finer points of guitars. I bought one but turned out it fit suit me so he took it back and swapped it for a better one. 
 

The guy showed me and a few friends some riffs and talked us though the finer points of amps. I’ve now been visiting for over 20 years.

Most of the internet bass playing videos have been one or the other of these examples. Personally, I think stuff like Geoff Chalmers discoed double bass is absolutely incredible and has provided me with literally years of inspiration. The 16 year old kids knocking out Donna Lee on their own less so, but there’s room for us all.

 

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I have a very harsh sentence for this youtubery, that lot of people won't like as it hurts a lot, but summarizes the situation :

"Monkeys imitate, men create." 

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15 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

back in the days of recording from a record to a tape, to learn a part, we had to learn by ear and find out the hard way if the bass was not tuned to standard pitch, or if the speed of the record player was ever so slightly out.

Great training for the ear, which I almost completely lost when I had a couple of years out. Took me a while to get it back - use it or lose it.

I do wonder if it makes a difference to those who have always learned songs from clicking on a YouTube video and having it all on a plate (as it were)?

I've learned the Maiden bass lines from Live After Death tape. The tape was played daily sometimes 3 times, the songs I learned several times over. Sigh....good all days. I never forget the sound of the Piece of Mind and Powerslave LP, best sounding to my opinion. 

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11 hours ago, wishface said:

I agree, but I lack gear and living out in the sticks makes it tough when you don't drive.

Still, I keep my eyes open. 

In second the notion that you learn more from playing with other musicians, well, I certainly did.

Doesn't need to be a full band and top of the range gear, maybe just a guitarist playing together in your front room.  Most fun I ever had in a band was a load of blokes that a (very good) drummer of my acquaintance worked with who'd never played in a band before but fancied having a go.  A drunken chat at a works do turned into a band.

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For me there’s a massive gulf between 

- Bassists who post on social media 

vs 

- Social media folk who play bass 

The former have a current gig or two and a certain humility, they share playing warts and all, but YT is not their day job. 
The latter focus on driving clicks through bait titles, bass gymnastics and stunts. 

There are some amazing bassists who are both great musicians AND make their main money thru YT (Adam Neely for one) but generally there’s an inverse relationship between inspirational Musicality and YouTube £.  
 

 

 

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It's only de-motivating if you allow yourself to descend down the rabbit hole. I prefer to get out and jam/play live with different musicians, play along to my favourite records at home and learn from my fave bassists by working their parts out by ear, only checking in on Youtube when I'm stuck...

Spending too much time on social media or Youtube just takes you away from learning by ear (the best way imho) or with other musicians in the room.

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4 hours ago, SH73 said:

I've learned the Maiden bass lines from Live After Death tape. The tape was played daily sometimes 3 times, the songs I learned several times over. Sigh....good all days. I never forget the sound of the Piece of Mind and Powerslave LP, best sounding to my opinion. 

I love 'arry as a player and have always had a soft spot for Maiden, but Martin Birch's skills hid a multitude of sins :D

I guess it didn't matter back then. Maiden were about the performance and their career speaks for itself

Nowadays you can hear it all stripped back and exposed, warts and all, on youtube. Not sure that was a good thing, but I doubt Steve ever really listened to himself in that way. He played with a band

EDIT: I started using Audacity to get into transcribing. I'm sure it's useful and I had a good go with Opeth's Sventh Sojourn. But I found messing around with the priogram, trying to set up filters and settings to up the bass part was a massive chore. Maybe I should keep it simple and just use the mp3 like the old days with record/tape

Edited by wishface
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1 hour ago, Drax said:

For me there’s a massive gulf between 

- Bassists who post on social media 

vs 

- Social media folk who play bass 

The former have a current gig or two and a certain humility, they share playing warts and all, but YT is not their day job. 
The latter focus on driving clicks through bait titles, bass gymnastics and stunts. 

There are some amazing bassists who are both great musicians AND make their main money thru YT (Adam Neely for one) but generally there’s an inverse relationship between inspirational Musicality and YouTube £.  
 

 

 

I like Adam, he's educational. Not just some flash piece of him doing Get Lucky solo slappy tappy. 

I would very much like to know what his practice routine is tthat he used to get to where he is because he understands music as well as how to play. That's much more informative I think

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I don't find it demotivating but I would say that piano is 'worse' for this. YouTube is loaded with freakishly talented Asian kids. I'm hoping to take my grade 4 this year and this morning searched for one of the pieces I'm struggling with at the moment. Greeted with a smiling 3 year old playing it perfectly. I mean - how is it even possible at that age? 

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The way I look at it is this - compared the number of people who play bass in some form (or whatever other instrument) the number of YouTube "stars" is probably a minute fraction of that number, and largely people who are either doing it as a job or are spending the same amount of time on it as they would if it were a job.  The fact that there seems to be a relatively large amount is because you (and everyone else) happen to be coming across them in searches, and they're coming up in those searches because YouTube etc. gives them exposure that they couldn't possibly have had in the past.  The fact that they are relatively popular is because there are a lot of people interested in the same instrument.

Now, most of us have (or will have had in the past) day jobs, and most of us will be pretty good at those jobs.  Some of those jobs will be highly skilled - there's probably a fair smattering of doctors, surgeons, lawyers, etc. on this forum, and all manner of other skilled people.  If amateur "lawyering" or amateur surgery were a thing (okay, I know it probably is!) then there might be a load of really accomplished lawyers and surgeons posting videos of their skills on YouTube, and eager amateurs sucking it up, learning how to do a neat bit of litigation and a tidy appendectomy.  

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most of us have skills which we've developed with the investment of a huge amount of time, and for most of us that will be through our jobs/careers as that's the only opportunity for investing that much time.  They may not be "sexy" skills, but nobody should be feeling inadequate about not being able to develop "sexy" skills because the vast majority of us don't have the opportunity to invest the time.

I may, of course, be talking complete tosh - it has been known...

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6 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

A drunken chat at a works do turned into a band.

I drunkenly promised the CEO that we could get a rock band together for the Xmas party.  6 months later the band played said gig and now 3 years later three of us are in the same rock cover band.

As for the OP - a lot of amazingly talented musicians out there in YD-land but I'm not worrying about it as it has no impact on me either in a positive or negative way.  I turn up every 2-3 weeks at a venue, set up my gear, play a  gig to a bunch of people and make them smile then go home after a great night with mates and a few beer tokens in my back pocket...it's enough for me.

Edited by DaytonaRik
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Youtube can be quite motivating and a godsend when trying to learn a bass line but really demoralising when you see the talented kids a quarter of your age.

  The internet is perfect for those of us who can't get around; no car and don't know any or are uncomfortable with musicians.

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9 hours ago, burno70 said:

I don't find it demotivating but I would say that piano is 'worse' for this. YouTube is loaded with freakishly talented Asian kids. I'm hoping to take my grade 4 this year and this morning searched for one of the pieces I'm struggling with at the moment. Greeted with a smiling 3 year old playing it perfectly. I mean - how is it even possible at that age? 

They know how to nurture talent over there (or push their kids to insane levels, or use strange biochemical interventions!)

I think all this stuff does is set insane standards for people who think they ought to live up to them. 

Everyone knows the coolest thing to watch for bass playing is Scott Thunes. Not only does he play slung low with a pick (sorry but that's cool) but he's playing Frank Zappa's music! That's not just cool, that's serious chops and musical skills, even if the guy has a reputation for being a bit of a headcase. 

That's what I want. If I can play Zappa-level music I know I'll have grown up.

9 hours ago, Gottastopbuyinggear said:

The way I look at it is this - compared the number of people who play bass in some form (or whatever other instrument) the number of YouTube "stars" is probably a minute fraction of that number, and largely people who are either doing it as a job or are spending the same amount of time on it as they would if it were a job.  The fact that there seems to be a relatively large amount is because you (and everyone else) happen to be coming across them in searches, and they're coming up in those searches because YouTube etc. gives them exposure that they couldn't possibly have had in the past.  The fact that they are relatively popular is because there are a lot of people interested in the same instrument.

Now, most of us have (or will have had in the past) day jobs, and most of us will be pretty good at those jobs.  Some of those jobs will be highly skilled - there's probably a fair smattering of doctors, surgeons, lawyers, etc. on this forum, and all manner of other skilled people.  If amateur "lawyering" or amateur surgery were a thing (okay, I know it probably is!) then there might be a load of really accomplished lawyers and surgeons posting videos of their skills on YouTube, and eager amateurs sucking it up, learning how to do a neat bit of litigation and a tidy appendectomy.  

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most of us have skills which we've developed with the investment of a huge amount of time, and for most of us that will be through our jobs/careers as that's the only opportunity for investing that much time.  They may not be "sexy" skills, but nobody should be feeling inadequate about not being able to develop "sexy" skills because the vast majority of us don't have the opportunity to invest the time.

I may, of course, be talking complete tosh - it has been known...

I remember a quote from an old Bass Player mag when they were gushing over Jaco. Apparently he'd told his parents he couldn't do chores anymore because he needed to preserve his hands. So much for mild green fairy liquid I guess!

If you're able to make a living uploading crazy technical skill clips on YT then you probably don't have any other job. That's fair enough, but it's not reality. Not my reality anyway

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9 hours ago, wishface said:

Everyone knows the coolest thing to watch for bass playing is Scott Thunes. Not only does he play slung low with a pick (sorry but that's cool) but he's playing Frank Zappa's music! That's not just cool, that's serious chops and musical skills, even if the guy has a reputation for being a bit of a headcase. 

That's what I want. If I can play Zappa-level music I know I'll have grown up.

Good to see Scott Thunes being mentioned

Seeing Thunes with FZ in the early 80's, for me was an epiphany. Here was a guy playing music that was as tough as it comes while looning around with a low slung P bass and a pick. 👌

'If' he was a headcase - FZ liked him and he was lovely when I met him.

 

 

 

 

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On 26/02/2020 at 23:16, Shaggy said:

It doesn't matter how good you are, as long as you're enjoying what you're doing,  and doing it from the heart.

Totally agree

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21 hours ago, wishface said:

I like Adam, he's educational. Not just some flash piece of him doing Get Lucky solo slappy tappy. 

I would very much like to know what his practice routine is tthat he used to get to where he is because he understands music as well as how to play. That's much more informative I think

It's also very tellling that the bass he most frequently plays is an ordinary 4-string MIM P-Bass with an aftermarket pickup.

If I remember correctly from watching his older videos it was because he'd done a load of clever stuff with a boutique 7-string when he first started on youtube, but decided he didn't want to be known as a player as "that 7-string tapping guy" so switched to something much more conventional.

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3 hours ago, No lust in Jazz said:

Good to see Scott Thunes being mentioned

Seeing Thunes with FZ in the early 80's, for me was an epiphany. Here was a guy playing music that was as tough as it comes while looning around with a low slung P bass and a pick. 👌

'If' he was a headcase - FZ liked him and he was lovely when I met him.

 

 

 

 

He's mellowed out in recent years but he has a reputation. Understandable given how he got treated by the rest of the band.

I'm sure he's a lovely guy these days. 

 

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On 26/02/2020 at 15:38, wishface said:

There's a bit in Portrait of Tracy where Jaco bars the 2nd fret o fthe A string to produce a harmonic on the 6th fret as if it were an open string. Unless you've got Jaco Hands good luck doing that!

I can do that! But I'm no Jaco... just long fingers 🙂

But I don't compete with other bass players, I compete with myself!

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To answer the OP.

No. Not in the slightest. I learnt to play mostly because I wanted to write songs/music. Seeing someone else regurgitate an existing piece of music holds pretty much zero interest for me.

Also while they are probably all far better players than I am, from what I have seen, I am safe in the knowledge that my room is tidier than their's, and I look after my body better and have a far better dress sense than any of them (well the male ones at least). ;-)

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