playing with a pick is faster - fact or fiction?

[paul_c2]

I think its the same speed achievable (with familiarity of each....), and here's why:

If you play with a pick, each up and down of (say) the index finger produces 2 notes - the upstroke and downstroke of the pick.

If you play with fingers, then each up movement of the finger produces a note, and while that finger is going down again (ready for the next 'up'), the middle finger produces a note. So its, effectively, a very similar movement which determines the maximum speed.

In theory playing with 3 fingers would be 1 1/2 times quicker still, if you could develop the technique to the proficiency of playing fingerstyle with 2 fingers. But in practice I personally hardly ever use 3 fingers, so I can't play at 1 1/2 times the speed of 2 finger playing. Maybe a bit quicker, but any quicker and its too rough/out of time to be practicable. I might be able to learn if needed, and I've no doubt that others can and do master this.

[josie]

5 minutes ago, Luckystrike said:

@josie, any video or sound clips of the fretless with a stone pick? I bet it sounds really weird and cool!

No but I could try to get something, I'll post it here if I do.

Seems most fretless players aim for a upright db, sort of rubbery sound and use tape-wound strings. I'm trying to get a silvery shimmery slide sound inspired by the slide guitar in some of my favourite blues bands. Somehow the chrome flat-wound strings and the hardest sharpest pick just work together really well to achieve that.

[plangentmusic]

It depends on the part.  And what kind of attack you want. 

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by plangentmusic

[alyctes]

1 hour ago, josie said:

I can only play with a pick (right elbow RSI, limited use of my fingers) so I've explored that a bit and it's striking how much difference in sound one can get from different picks. Stone sounds different to wood sounds different to resin. Sharp sounds different to rounded sounds different to blunt. Atm I'm mostly using sharp hardwood with my electric fretted main squeeze, sharp stone with my flat-strung fretless, and blunt resin with my fretted acoustic.

Have you tried leather picks at all?

(I can't play with a pick at all.  I really need to learn at some point.  So, I think fingers are faster )

[josie]

Just now, alyctes said:

Have you tried leather picks at all?

Yes, tried leather and didn't get on with it at all.Too floppy, and gave me a dull blurry sound. Same with felt. Ymmv 🙂

http://www.timber-tones.com/bass-guitar-368-c.asp

[Bluewine]

I played with my fingers , traditional East Coast 70s style funk and R&B for most of my life. I started playing back in the mid 60s. 

About 10 years ago I switched to using a pick. I was playing more aggressive rock and found a pick helped develop the tone I was after and found it easier a IMO a better way to execute licks and riffs.

Blue

[dannybuoy]

Master both fingers and pick, use whichever fits the song best. The end!

Although not quite the end, as slap should really be in that list too, but I'm rubbish at it!

[RussFM]

Consistency of tone for me. I always used to play with fingers in my punk band, and I got pretty fast, but especially when moving around onstage and playing harder when it was a poor onstage mix, I'd have some notes much louder than others, or with a different tone. Changing to playing with a pick kept that same tone and volume throughout the song. In my covers band I went back to fingers, because then I wanted to hear different tone for different parts of songs again, but that just wasn't required for punk.

[lowdowner]

8 hours ago, josie said:

Nothing to do with speed, but the difference in sound is clear. I've seen good bass players switch between pick and fingers between songs, or even mid-song,  to get the right tone or attack.

I can only play with a pick (right elbow RSI, limited use of my fingers) so I've explored that a bit and it's striking how much difference in sound one can get from different picks. Stone sounds different to wood sounds different to resin. Sharp sounds different to rounded sounds different to blunt. Atm I'm mostly using sharp hardwood with my electric fretted main squeeze, sharp stone with my flat-strung fretless, and blunt resin with my fretted acoustic.

And they're rather lovely things...

pretty things That's going to encourage me to try a few different ones out. Where are you finding them?

[lowdowner]

It seems that the consensus is that a pick provides a different tone (maybe easier to be more consistent?). A pick is harder, brighter, and with more attack. 

I've not really put much time into learning to play with a pick so I'm going to put some time into it and see what happens. 

[No lust in Jazz]

As regards tone - this can be changed with palm muting, changing the attack or even tweaking the EQ

I tend to gravitate to a pick - largely because a lot of the bass players that I listened to in my formative years used one, but I can play 90% of what's currently in our set either way.

I suppose for my input if you feel comfortable with a style stick with it - I don't see too many limitations either way

 

 

[PaulWarning]

I have seen fast fingerstyle players but I can't do it, but I've never tried hard enough, playing in a Punk band there's no incentive, like some others I suspect, I moved over from the darkside so it seemed obvious to me to play with a pick, and all my bass playing heroes play with a pick.

As a general rule pick players do cut through the mix better, but not always

[dannybuoy]

A pick does give a brighter more aggressive sound yes... But there are a lot of things you can do fingerstyle that are very hard to reproduce with a pick. Rolling the fingers for rapid triplets, muting strings, pinching the top and strings to play both together, hammering downwards to make the string bounce off the frets, etc...

For me it's not pick vs fingers, just use what works best. In my originals bands I've had a few tracks that used a pick, most with fingers, even one that started with a pick then switched to fingers half way through. 

On the original question, I can play certain things a lot faster and clearer with a pick (e.g. Hysteria by Muse, even though Chris plays it with fingers). I also have a lot more stamina with a pick. I used to play a bassline I wrote that had a lot of straight 16ths in it and my hand would cramp up trying to play the entire song, but I could manage ok with a pick. Ultimately though I pursued with fingers because the subtle muting to cut off the note just before hitting the next one just made it groove a lot more!

[Twigman]

Plectrum generally gives sharper attack.

There are some songs in my set that I recorded with a plectrum but, since suffering a neck injury that has caused a permanent numbness in my right hand and arm I find I no longer have the grip strength to hold a plectrum.

Many of the ding-diggadigga-ding rhythms that lend themselves so well to pick playing can be tricky to play with fingers, not so much for the speed (although once you get to 140ish bpm ding-diggadigga-ding gets tricky) but the attack. Getting such a short sharp attack with fingers is nigh on impossible.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Twigman

[Big_Stu]

Pick for me, trying but not quite succeeding to emulate this bloke. Props to any finger players, I also love Duck Dunne's playing.

 

[spongebob]

Pick for me. 

I've been working on my fingerstyle a fair bit recently, but when I get with the band, I always revert to the pick - just seems to get a tone that sits better in the mix.

Faster? I'd say. I'm a bit of an over-player anyway, and have regularly been asked if I'm being paid by the note! I'd attribute a part of that to the pick, as the up and down strokes allow me to play as such.

Saying that, Jaco played more than me with fingers....!😀

[FinnDave]

I currently use fingers on round wound strung Precisions for the blues band(s) and a pick on LaBella flat strung Jazzes for the Dead tribute. They obviously sound different, but I don't think there is a difference in speed, just that the tone suits the music.

[jazzmanb]

Apart from using the edge of a plec on a roundwound string both can do what the other can if the players ability allows.I couldnt play Ace of spades with the same consistancy with fingers for example but i'm no Steve Harris

[Hobbayne]

Most of the bassists I listened to while growing up in the late 70's/early 80's played with a pick. Bruce Foxton,  JJB etc. So I copied them.

[josie]

5 hours ago, lowdowner said:

pretty things That's going to encourage me to try a few different ones out. Where are you finding them?

Mostly from Timbertones

https://www.timber-tones.co.uk/

It's rare to find anything interesting in a music shop in this country. I've had better luck in Nashville (not surprising).

You cay buy punches to cut pick shapes out of credit cards, but I can't believe they'd feel or sound good or last long.

 

[discreet]

Been a pick player for decades but recently (four or five years ago) started playing fingerstyle, and now I do whatever is best for the song. I find the pick gives me a lot of control and finesse, but so does fingerstyle. My muting is better with a pick. You don't have to have a clicky, percussive sound if you play pick, you can EQ so that it sounds pretty much however you want on the attack. Type of strings makes a difference too, obviously.

[dave_bass5]

17 hours ago, lowdowner said:

 

Why do some people play bass with a pick? I can hear a difference with the tone (bright and hard with a pick and soft and funk-fantastic) but is it the case that you can play *faster* with a pick, or that you can't play faster per se. but it's *easier* to play faster with a pick?

What does the combined wisdom of the basseratti on here think?

I started off on guitar and ended up on bass. Playing with a pick was never something i thought about, it just seemed natural. After using a pick for all these years i really wish i hadn't now, i love finger style playing much more, but just cant do it fast enough to keep up with the band (any band). Even at rehearsla when im going to make the effort i slip back to using a pick within the first song or two.

Funnily enough Duran Duran's Rio is the only song i can play finger style all the way through at gig speed, which is crazy considering its not a slow song.

[Barking Spiders]

I've never really got to grips with using picks either on basses or guitars,. Besides, bassplayingwise my preference is for genres where the pick is never really suitable i.e. funk and disco.  I dislike using picks even more on electric and acoustic guitars, especially playing chords.

[martthebass]

I can play with both but play pick only sparingly so can't achieve as high a speed as with my finger style playing.  I should work at it but tend to find I don't get the same accuracy when moving about on stage when using a pick - somehow I feel less connected with the bass, also after about half an hour my wrist hurts like buggery and I've screwed up enough joints without adding another one to the list.  In the band I'm currently in, history would dictate exclusive pick playing but I rarely have a problem achieving the required tone.  Leaving the nails a bit longer and hitting harder when required does help in this matter.

[itsmedunc]

I use a pick 99% of the time but if I could be bothered practicing with my fingers, I'm positive I could play way way faster.