Why are music stands not acceptable in guitar bands?

[Silvia Bluejay]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1467973853' post='3087668']
So, is it still a problem if an artist has a laptop, tablet or screen of some sort in front of them? I'm interested in views.
[/quote]

They'll still look crap in photos...

[synthaside]

I think it all depends on your memory , while i'm sure 99% of those stand users don't look at the stands too often unless they are Deps' or new to playing , I think these are there more as comfort blankets, for quick reference.
theres nothing wrong with it but if people want to ween off the music stand there are other options ...

I for example scribble on my set list which effects / tone settings i'm using for each cover in my short hand a song like town called malice is TsBdiN0B10T , for those who don't speak the voices in my head translates To Tubescreamer on Sans-amp on , Neck pickup off Bridge at 10 tone at 10 - there's nothing enjoyably about faffing around between between songs

Another thing our guitarist feels he doesn't know a song quite as well as he'd like to ( crappy memory ) he capo's one of those little revision cards just to remind him of what chord / key or what fret he's capoing out.

Edited July 8, 2016 by synthaside

[paul h]

@dood I think anything that creates a barrier, physical or otherwise between the performer and the audience can be a bad thing.

However, if the band you're in isn't particularly showy or doesn't rely on a lot of stagecraft, then it probably doesn't matter too much.

[Muzz]

I've got an iPad holder for a stand, I use it when depping or when we're doing the acoustic duo/trio thing, as there's a completely different song list. But it doesn't go in front of me, I use the bottom of an old stand and it sits by the amp, pointing sideways - I'll look at it to refresh my memory of the song, but then walk away. Only if I've never played the song will I look at it more than that...

I think they look arse from a performance point of view, and let's face it, if we're not actually performing from a visual point of view, we may as well sit down and save our backs...

[PaulWarning]

yep got to agree with a lot of posts on here, I used to use one when I first started open micing to remember the lyrics, but soon realised if it's there you spend all your time looking at it, even if you don't need too, if I see somebody using one I just think "lazy sod, couldn't even be bothered to learn the songs". If you're depping it's different. Do classical orchestras need them? or is it just part of their image?. Slightly off topic, why do the need a conductor WTF is that all about?
Couldn't they just have a Dee Dee Ramone shouting 1 2 3 4, like the rest of us?

Edited July 8, 2016 by PaulWarning

[discreet]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1467973415' post='3087662']
Ha! Glad it's not just me then . I usually add the first note and sometime the song chords to my playlist and tape it somewhere discreet. As you rightly say, it's usually a safety net that's not needed, but very nice to have when it is!
[/quote]

Having said I don't use a music stand, I [i]do [/i]have a set list on the floor and I [i]do [/i]write the first note (NOT the key) of each song before the title, just in case I have a senior brain fart and completely the forget the whole song, or where I am, or WHO I am, or what I'm doing... (it happens). The thing being, if I can get the first note right there's a fair to middlling chance the others will follow, and in the right order.

Edited July 8, 2016 by discreet

[stingrayPete1977]

We play every song in C major and just fumble about in time to the drummer,No need for dots or anything then.

[BrunoBass]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1467973853' post='3087668']
So, is it still a problem if an artist has a laptop, tablet or screen of some sort in front of them? I'm interested in views.
[/quote]

For me, yes. Using a tablet or a music stand is a complete no-no; unless you have a medical condition that prevents you remembering songs (as someone posted earlier) just learn your part and leave the prompts at home.

[EssentialTension]

What if I prefer music stands over guitar bands?

[FuNkShUi]

I would guess that 95% of the general public do not give a hoot if the band playing have stands or not. As long as they're a good band and they can hear the singer.
Same goes for bass tone, and equipment used etc.
I think some make far too big a deal of issues that in general aren't noticed by the people we are mostly playing for.
For the record i don't use a music stand, but don't care if someone does

[wateroftyne]

I'm watching Lincoln at the the minute, the film with Daniel Day Lewis in it.

It's very good, but I imagine if they remade it with the cast referring to their scripts throughout, it would be pretty cack.

[neilp]

Oh dear. Classical orchestras need them because we can't be expected to memorise all the notes, dynamics, tempo changes etc etc that we've rehearsed. In general, orchestral music is MUCH less repetitive than what most of us play and much more difficult to learn. In general, I learn the difficult bits, and carry on reading the easy bits, even in performance. The conductor? What's he for? Imagine how hard it would be for 80 musicians to deal with all the balance, tempo and expression details (MUCH more detail than we put into our performances) without some cues and help. It's a different world, so much more detailed.

[ambient]

My one gig from last weekend, Me and my music stand are behind the one sax player and his music stand.

It all depends on the gig I guess.

I've done lots of dep gigs for function bands where I've sight read the set, and never had a complaint.

[wateroftyne]

Yep, I'm guessing by 'guitar bands', tho OP means not function bands, or background music, or what-have-you.

[fretmeister]

Even when I play in the local orchestra I learn the tunes so I don't have to use the music. I treat it like I was in a rock band again.

I never look at it during the performance, eyes on the conductor.

I am often surprised that even the Grade 8 players haven't memorised them. Some of them could sight read and transpose at the same time having never seen or heard the piece before. But not remember it after a term of rehearsals.

[lowdown]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1467979391' post='3087757']
Even when I play in the local orchestra I learn the tunes so I don't have to use the music. I treat it like I was in a rock band again.

I never look at it during the performance, eyes on the conductor.

I am often surprised that even the Grade 8 players haven't memorised them. Some of them could sight read and transpose at the same time having never seen or heard the piece before. But not remember it after a term of rehearsals.
[/quote]

Agreed about watching the carver.
But, It's not always about knowing and learning the charts, that's the easy bit. For reference in certain situations.
If there is some kind of mess up on stage or elsewhere, then the Conductor or MD shouts out 'Bar 88..1.2.3', you just do it,
or pre show there is section cut (for whatever reason), pencil in the cut.
No messing around looking for the music, there is no time (unless you have memorised every bar number as well) the moment has gone.
The pad is mostly for reference after a while. IE, tune order etc. It's a safety net.
IMHO of course.


[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1467977692' post='3087738']
Oh dear. Classical orchestras need them because we can't be expected to memorise all the notes, dynamics, tempo changes etc etc that we've rehearsed. In general, orchestral music is MUCH less repetitive than what most of us play and much more difficult to learn. In general, I learn the difficult bits, and carry on reading the easy bits, even in performance. The conductor? What's he for? Imagine how hard it would be for 80 musicians to deal with all the balance, tempo and expression details (MUCH more detail than we put into our performances) without some cues and help. It's a different world, so much more detailed.
[/quote]

All this as well.

Edited July 8, 2016 by lowdown

[AndrewJordan]

Our singer/lead guitarist has all his lyrics in one of those hard backed ring binders. Before every gig he arranges them in the right order for the set. He swears that he never looks at them, just likes them as a safety net. Anyway, just before the gig and after we have already soundchecked he will open his binder out on the first song page and lay it on the grill of his monitor. In the breaks between the next few songs I usualy get calls for more of this or that in his monitor because he can no longer hear it. The dozy twat!!...............I suppose I should insist he gets it on the monitor before we soundcheck.

[discreet]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1467976614' post='3087723']
I'm watching Lincoln at the the minute... I imagine if they remade it with the cast referring to their scripts throughout, it would be pretty cack.
[/quote]

Total cack. Like [i]The Archers[/i].

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467980920' post='3087770']
Our singer... will open his binder on the first song page and lay it on the grill of his monitor. I usually get calls for more of this or that in his monitor because he can no longer hear it. The dozy twat!!
[/quote]

Edited July 8, 2016 by discreet

[blue]

Depends on the band,the genre and venue.

For a rock band playing a bar, a music stand looks pretty silly.

Blue

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1467981335' post='3087777']
Total cack. Like [i]The Archers[/i].

[/quote]

Absolutely.

[KevB]

As I've said in the past (and Blue has just reiterated) it's rather genre specific. Orchestras pretty much the norm, jazz gigs frequetly have readers off music stands but then jazz bands are often 'scratch' affairs and they couldnt really work without them. Knocking out rock covers down the dog & duck? no, not really cool. On my very rare depping outings I might keep a chord sheet or two for some songs on the top of the bass cab but that's about it. Having said that some of the very small holders that can hold something little bigger than a smartphone, clipped to the mic stand, can look fairly unobtrusive with judicious set dressing.

[Dood]

[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1467974387' post='3087675']
@dood I think anything that creates a barrier, physical or otherwise between the performer and the audience can be a bad thing.

However, if the band you're in isn't particularly showy or doesn't rely on a lot of stagecraft, then it probably doesn't matter too much.
[/quote]

Ah-ha! Someone who can read between the lines of my question - I really wanted to know why people had a problem with music stands and maybe not other kit. My main issue is the subliminal or psychological barrier that is between performer and audience. Ok, so some installations/art pieces uses this as a device on purpose and I find that interesting, but a rock band I wouldn't want to see hiding behind and staring at screens all night.

I have worked quite extensively with students of complex needs in nature and it has been very fruitful to study what happens when you start using equipment such as ipads and screens when you are looking for focus and attention. That's a discussion for another day though.

[Dood]

[quote name='PaulGibsonBass' timestamp='1467975369' post='3087699']
For me, yes. Using a tablet or a music stand is a complete no-no; unless you have a medical condition that prevents you remembering songs (as someone posted earlier) just learn your part and leave the prompts at home.
[/quote]

So, the assumption is that if musicians are using that kit on stage then they are somehow unprofessional or medically incapable? (edit to include a smiley!)


Pretty much all of the bands that I've worked with recently that have used laptops, tablets and music stands have not been using them for music, crib sheets or prompts. I'm wondering if there are those who see that kit on stage are jumping to conclusions before the band has started?
Laptops for running backing tracks, or some sort of automation, tablets for running applications such as Positive Grid's BIAS or Jam Up and Music stands? Well my friend keeps all her capos, plectrums, mouth organ, tuner and hand wipes on hers.

Edited July 8, 2016 by dood

[lojo]

Its nice to have a polished, well learned , deeply ingrained in the brain set of music and lyrics, and not have anyone need stands, but it takes a while for a non pro working band to achieve that.

Think the last thread threw up loads of pics of ageing legends all using stands

Edited July 8, 2016 by lojo

[discreet]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1467983293' post='3087809']
Laptops for running backing tracks, or automation, tablets for running applications...
[/quote]

Laptops? Backing tracks?? Automation??? Applications???? AT A 'LIVE' GIG????? *Has massive cardiac arrest and drops dead*