Why are music stands not acceptable in guitar bands?

[discreet]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1467984864' post='3087821']
Its nice to have a polished, well learned , deeply ingrained set of music and lyrics and have no need of stands, but it takes a while for a non pro working band to achieve that. Think the last thread threw up loads of pics of ageing legends all using stands
[/quote]

Not too long if the non-pro working band bothers to learn the bleeding material between rehearsals!

As for ageing legends using stands: We don't use 'em because we're in amateur bands with a pro attitude. Ageing legends use 'em because they're in pro bands with an amateur attitude. Or maybe they just have Alzheimer's.

And of course there's always the possibility they have Alzheimer's.

Edited July 8, 2016 by discreet

[lojo]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1467985283' post='3087828']
Not too long if the non-pro working band bothers to learn the bleeding material between rehearsals!
[/quote]

Yeah, musicians no excuse , but sometimes there are a lot of lyrics and prompts are needed.

[Trueno]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1467985283' post='3087828']
We don't use 'em because we're amateur bands with a pro attitude.
[/quote]

That's game, set and match for me... you can't tell I'm watching Wimbledon?
I'd like to be in your band...

[BigRedX]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1467983293' post='3087809']
Pretty much all of the bands that I've worked with recently that have used laptops, tablets and music stands have not been using them for music, crib sheets or prompts. I'm wondering if there are those who see that kit on stage are jumping to conclusions before the band has started?
Laptops for running backing tracks, or some sort of automation, tablets for running applications such as Positive Grid's BIAS or Jam Up and Music stands? Well my friend keeps all her capos, plectrums, mouth organ, tuner and hand wipes on hers.
[/quote]

It all depends on the type of music being played, but for any music that has it roots in "rock" it's a good idea to avoid things that get in the way of your performance and the audience.

Even something as innocuous as the simple mic stand can do this. I've seen several performers with an "energetic" stage presence during songs spend an inordinate amount of time between songs fiddling with the mic stand to get it back to a suitable position which IMO can completely kill the energy that they've just been building up. Either get something that will stand up to the abuse, modify your performance so you don't have to rebuilt the stand after every song, or learn to live with it and make sure that you practice coping with it.

[lojo]

Wasn't the best post of the last thread something like ...,

If I went to a gig a saw a stand I'd walk straight out ?

[discreet]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1467986317' post='3087845']
Wasn't the best post of the last thread something like... If I went to a gig and saw a music stand I'd walk straight out?
[/quote]

Hee, hee. Yes, but no-one can remember who said it.

[4stringslow]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1467984864' post='3087821']
Think the last thread threw up loads of pics of ageing legends all using stands
[/quote]

Speaking of which, what about using chairs? Last time I saw BB King he had to sit down for the performance, although there was nothing wrong with his playing or singing. In his case it was obviously age/health related, but I've also seem Clapton play some acoustic songs sitting down as well. All depends on the context really I suppose.

As for the original question, there's no definitive answer, only opinions. I guess the most important opinions are those of the audience, so perhaps we're not the best selected group of people to offer relevant opinions because even when we're part of an audience our player mentality will likely cloud our opinions.

[stingrayPete1977]

Was it TimR? Apologies if not.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1467977692' post='3087738']
Oh dear. Classical orchestras need them because we can't be expected to memorise all the notes, dynamics, tempo changes etc etc that we've rehearsed. In general, orchestral music is MUCH less repetitive than what most of us play and much more difficult to learn. In general, I learn the difficult bits, and carry on reading the easy bits, even in performance. The conductor? What's he for? Imagine how hard it would be for 80 musicians to deal with all the balance, tempo and expression details (MUCH more detail than we put into our performances) without some cues and help. It's a different world, so much more detailed.
[/quote]I guess that's why we have a drummer seriously, I don't see much difference between learning a a 40 song 2 hour set than a long classical piece, but hey, I've never been anywhere near an orchestra so I probably don't know what I'm talking about

[Dood]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1467985884' post='3087836']
It all depends on the type of music being played, but for any music that has it roots in "rock" it's a good idea to avoid things that get in the way of your performance and the audience.

Even something as innocuous as the simple mic stand can do this. I've seen several performers with an "energetic" stage presence during songs spend an inordinate amount of time between songs fiddling with the mic stand to get it back to a suitable position which IMO can completely kill the energy that they've just been building up. Either get something that will stand up to the abuse, modify your performance so you don't have to rebuilt the stand after every song, or learn to live with it and make sure that you practice coping with it.
[/quote]

Indeed and I agree with this hence my other comment about a 'psychological barrier'. Definitely agree with making sure that everything works properly (ehem, adequately!!! - Venue provided kit) before a show too. My post was more questioning those who dismissed a performance at the sight of such hardware, good gig or otherwise.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1467980536' post='3087765']
Agreed about watching the carver.
But, It's not always about knowing and learning the charts, that's the easy bit. For reference in certain situations.
If there is some kind of mess up on stage or elsewhere, then the Conductor or MD shouts out 'Bar 88..1.2.3', you just do it,
or pre show there is section cut (for whatever reason), pencil in the cut.
No messing around looking for the music, there is no time (unless you have memorised every bar number as well) the moment has gone.
The pad is mostly for reference after a while. IE, tune order etc. It's a safety net.
IMHO of course.




All this as well.
[/quote]

Hadn't thought about a mad jump to a new section, probably because that hasn't happened to me (yet).

I would be screwed unless it was something I had learned on the way like Section A or B or something.

[AndrewJordan]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1467987131' post='3087864']
I guess that's why we have a drummer seriously, I don't see much difference between learning a a 40 song 2 hour set than a long classical piece, but hey, I've never been anywhere near an orchestra so I probably don't know what I'm talking about
[/quote]

What if the classical guys really have it all down to memory and just have the stands/sheets there to fool us all into thinking how professional at sight reading they are.......................................

[drTStingray]

The short answer from my experience is guitarists (well rock ones at least) usually refuse to play anything they don't know anyway so don't need music stands.

I use a music stand if I'm depping (however that band has a keyboard player and sax player so may not count) and I only use the stand for songs I'm not sure about - however they do play smoke on the water so I guess it is a rock band with music stands at least for that song.

i guess it's all about image - flailing windmill Style Pete Townsend guitar playing and music stands hardly sit well on the same stage - a health and safety issue as well!!

[ivansc]

A friend of mine made tiny clip-on-your-mic-stand sized music stands and kindly gave me one.
Takes an A5 sheet and has a two ring binder mechanism. Unobtrusive and bloody excellent.

Extremely easy to make as well.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1467986825' post='3087854']
Speaking of which, what about using chairs? ...
[/quote]

I have told the drummer many times but he insists on sitting down. He says it helps him to see his music stand.

Edited July 8, 2016 by EssentialTension

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467988186' post='3087889']
What if the classical guys really have it all down to memory and just have the stands/sheets there to fool us all into thinking how professional at sight reading they are.......................................
[/quote] well that's the thought that occurred to me, it's all about image init, and who turns the pages? I went to see the Bootleg Beatles and they had orchestral backing, all with music stands, can't believe they needed them, it was well into the tour

[Cat Burrito]

I certainly don't have a problem with them, so long as the performer isn't glued to one. I've worked with a minority of players in the past who've used one and it simply hasn't been an issue. As mentioned by earlier posters, I occasionally scribble notes on set lists or cards hidden on the amps but much more in the early days of new songs. It's preferable to getting things wrong but nothing should be a substitute for practice.

[spongebob]

I think it looks terrible, local pub band with stands. Why on earth would you need a reference point for 'Mustang Sally'?

[lowdown]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1467991534' post='3087922']
I went to see the Bootleg Beatles and they had orchestral backing, all with music stands, can't believe they needed them, it was well into the tour
[/quote]

The beauty of being a sight reader on shows (a regular show could be considered your 9-5 job), you can dep it out to other sight readers
while you are out on a radio or TV broadcast, or a recording session, or are just bored of playing Beatles tunes for a while and fancy
depping in a different Orchestra or show for a few days.

You might have witnessed an Orchestra with of a lot of deps, or pick ups used in different towns that night,
or the musical supervisor putting the pads out on the stands because he/she had no idea who was sitting in the Orchestra that night,
or indeed that it's their job to put the music out for the performance regardless.
Don't assume they are all musical numpties that 'ave no ears and can't learn a few Beatles tunes.

Edited July 8, 2016 by lowdown

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1467986317' post='3087845']
Wasn't the best post of the last thread something like ...,

If I went to a gig a saw a stand I'd walk straight out ?
[/quote]
[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1467986723' post='3087852']
Hee, hee. Yes, but no-one can remember who said it.
[/quote]

This has become something of a Basschat meme, cropping up all over the place, which makes it tricky to pin down where it started.

I can remember it also being used in the context of bass stands, vocal autotune, and drummers playing around the beat!

[Dood]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1467995761' post='3087962']
This has become something of a Basschat meme, cropping up all over the place, which makes it tricky to pin down where it started.

I can remember it also being used in the context of bass stands, vocal autotune, and drummers playing around the beat!
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Hee, hee. Yes, but no-one can remember who said it.[/size][/font][/color]

[lowhand_mike]

we USED to have a singer that refused to not have his stand with all his poorly organised lyric sheets in a dog eared folder on it, did my nut and no matter how much we asked him to learn the songs he wouldnt get rid of the stand, even putting on glasses to read certain songs cos they had been printed out too small ffs!

classical music or where you are site reading then fine but in the dog a duck situation go duck yourself

[lowhand_mike]

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1467993376' post='3087940']
Why on earth would you need a reference point for 'Mustang Sally'?
[/quote]

cos its a right tricky one that

Edited July 8, 2016 by lowhand_mike

[lowhand_mike]

though worst of all was our rythmn guitard turning up at a wedding reception and forgot his shoes (we had to wear suits) so he played whilst wearing open toed sandles and ... AND SOCKS!

[drTStingray]

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1467993376' post='3087940']
I think it looks terrible, local pub band with stands. Why on earth would you need a reference point for 'Mustang Sally'?
[/quote]

If there's a three piece brass arrangement and you're a depping sax player it might be a good idea - however possibly not if you mean the 'pub rock' version where the guitarist plays crunchy barred chords on beats one and three as no matter what anyone else does it will have no soul....... 😕