dazza14 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I've recently started a rock n roll band and the band consists of drummer, guitarist, bass and singer, and its going really well but when we play covers from bands with two guitars the music really suffers because the guitarist switches from rhythm to lead leaving me and the drummer trying to fill the space left behind. Because a lot of the songs are walking bass lines it leaves a lot of space, I was wondering if there is an effect I could use to 'fatten' up the bass sound so we don't 'drop' everytime there is a solo. We could bring in another guitarist or keys player but not every song has a lead which would mean for 70% of the time the guitarists would be doing the same thing! I'm new to effect pedals so I really am scrambling around in the dark, I was initially thinking an 'echo' pedal of some kind but i'm sure there is something more suitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allighatt0r Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm in a similar position in my new band which is a four piece (Drums, singer, guitar and bass), and I had this thought too. I decided in the end that the 'drop' you speak of actually goes a long way to emphasising the solo, and that I liked the way it change the dynamic of the song. If you were set on filling it out though, I would say your best bet would be some form of tubey grit, to beef up your tone and spread out into the sonic emptyness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 it's not just down to you, your drummer needs to be addressing it to. It's all about contrast, so if it sounds like it drops out from one section to another, he should play a smaller sounding cymbal in the previous section, and a bigger sounding cymbal in the empty section. IE if currently he switches from a crash in the chorus to a ride in the solo, he should instead swap the two around, or maybe go from crash to open hats. I've always played in 3 peices. I've used a variety of different ways to fill space. Distortion is probably the most popular. Octave down or up can work. Playing chords works really well for me but can be difficult to get them to sound good (normlly sounds muddy). I use a dirty sound with loads of high mids when playing chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 See my comments in a recent thread '[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/237489-octaver/page__view__findpost__p__2458020"]Octaver?[/url]' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 If it was me, overdrive or a simple low/low mid boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 When our guitarist plays lead breaks, I just get a bit busier to fill behind him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Also see my comments in the Octaver thread Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Its not what you put in........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I love the sound of a 3 piece instruments, everything is generally clear and you all get your own space. If you are playing Rock and Roll as opposed to 'rock', listen to Eddie cochran and buddy holly, very sparse. Also have a look at the stray cats, a modern take on rock and roll. Look at the drummers kit, a snare and and a high hat. No toms, try reversing what you are trying to do, get it simple. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquipment Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Distortion!!!!! Abuses the hell out of it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 [quote name='bumnote' timestamp='1401467676' post='2463961'] I love the sound of a 3 piece instruments, everything is generally clear and you all get your own space. If you are playing Rock and Roll as opposed to 'rock', listen to Eddie cochran and buddy holly, very sparse. Also have a look at the stray cats, a modern take on rock and roll. Look at the drummers kit, a snare and and a high hat. No toms, try reversing what you are trying to do, get it simple. . [/quote] Beat me to it with this ^. If it really is rock and roll, then the interplay between the instruments often carries the song. Oh, have a look at Carl Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Maybe the guitarist is playing too much when he is not soloing and so losing too much when he drops it. As for the bass: Have a variant of the bass line for the instrumental section so instead of being empty it just sounds different - in fact instead of being the guitarist soloing, treat it as an instrumental section. If you were playing quarter notes then play eighths, or vice versa. If you were pedalling then walk, or vice versa. If you were walking up then walk down, or vice versa. But space is good. Most of us play more than is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Back in the early gigs, I did most with a fantastic guitarist. Loved his sound (think '80s metal). Learned a lot from him. Back then, it was just my bass into combo. Nothing else.I was just playing riffs /root notes . We both always got complimented at our gigs. Maybe keeping it simple is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hey Darren - we've spoken on PM about this music. I think space is good & actually live doesn't notice in the way it does in rehearsal. I'm looking to move back to Wiltshire soon & have both a Gretsch and a J200 acoustic so if you do go down the 2nd guitar route give us a shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Nothing will sound as bad as a band where everyone starts to overplay when the guitarist takes a solo, or the sound changes then changes back when he stops soloing. Don't "fill in" all the spaces. Spaces sound good. Leave them alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Alternatively get a 12 string bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 IME, in terms of changing tone, adding a bit more gain/overdrive fills out the bass sound in the most musically pleasing way for rock, during a guitar solo in a 3 piece band. A lot of it does depend on your guitarist though. My current guitarist is not quite as musically astute as others I have worked with and he is not good at "filling" his solo space, or using the best tones for the job (all IMO of course. I suspect he disagrees). Other guitarists I've worked with knew how to "fill" a solo and it never needed me as the bassist to fill anything else while they soloed. If it's just not working in a band situation though, sometimes it has to come down to song selection as some songs simply don't work as a 3 piece (with some guitarists) IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 I'd suggest adding a chorus unit, it'll do plenty to thicken up the sound of your bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 [quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1401443373' post='2463605'] If it was me, overdrive or a simple low/low mid boost [/quote] That would be my approach too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1401439666' post='2463550'] it's not just down to you, your drummer needs to be addressing it to. [/quote] [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1401489965' post='2464286'] Maybe the guitarist is playing too much when he is not soloing and so losing too much when he drops it. [/quote] I've been thinking a bit about this thread since my last post and I think it *may* be more than this. A lot of soloing in the rock 'n' roll era involves thickening up the guitar with double stops or chord based soloing. It's easy for us as bass players to think we are the ones who are at fault but I wonder if your guy is doing a lot of single note soloing? Listen to Eddie Cochran or Buddy Holly - it's very heavily based around[b] not[/b] just playing single notes and that thickens the sound. Just thinking about your playing from what you've said. In terms of the bass, jazzes are slightly better for cutting through the mix and playing more melody based basslines. A P-bass would thicken up the sound. And I assume you are using flatwounds, playing finger style nearer the neck? All this will make for a more authentic period correct sound. Effects weren't relied on then as they are now. Failing on all that I was deadly serious in my offer to try out on 2nd guitar. And I see Rockabilly Rumble are playing the Vic on Friday 20th. I'll probably venture down to that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Enjoy the space. And learn to walk. And rip off Jack Bruce for a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza14 Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 [quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1401724271' post='2466186'] I've been thinking a bit about this thread since my last post and I think it *may* be more than this. A lot of soloing in the rock 'n' roll era involves thickening up the guitar with double stops or chord based soloing. It's easy for us as bass players to think we are the ones who are at fault but I wonder if your guy is doing a lot of single note soloing? Listen to Eddie Cochran or Buddy Holly - it's very heavily based around[b] not[/b] just playing single notes and that thickens the sound. Hi Burrito! Thanks for the replies, you were going to be my next port of call if I didn't get too many responses from this thread. I've had so many suggestions so i'm working through them one at a time, already spoken to my drummer to discuss his cymbal choices but that's reached a dead end, he seems reluctant to move away from the original recordings, so he wants to emulate what is being played rather than looking at what instruments we have and adjusting accordingly. My next step is effect pedals but I don't want to go down that route if i'm honest... My Jazz is roundwound stringed, i'm going to introduce my fretless with flats this week to see what that does for the sound but i'm hoping to use that for the real 50's songs and the jazz for ones that need a little more 'zing' (we cover modern stuff too, things that sound 50's) but if need be i'll play fretless all the time. Thanks for the offer of being second guitar, as long as you don't laugh at my bass playing you might have a deal! Just thinking about your playing from what you've said. In terms of the bass, jazzes are slightly better for cutting through the mix and playing more melody based basslines. A P-bass would thicken up the sound. And I assume you are using flatwounds, playing finger style nearer the neck? All this will make for a more authentic period correct sound. Effects weren't relied on then as they are now. Failing on all that I was deadly serious in my offer to try out on 2nd guitar. And I see Rockabilly Rumble are playing the Vic on Friday 20th. I'll probably venture down to that one [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza14 Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 This weeks practice i'm going to cut back on what I play during the vocals and then do more during the breaks, walking lines and things, and see how it sounds... Thanks for the advise and options chaps, i'll keep you posted and hopefully post a track or two so it's easier to see the problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 More dirt, more mids, then even more for when you feel it's dropped. In on of our original songs the guitar has a solo and it suddenly sounds empty so I play chords a'la rhythm guitar and it makes a world of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1401497558' post='2464331'] Spaces sound good. Leave them alone. [/quote] Have to agree with this. Not enough dynamics in rock music, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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