£11,000 bass guitar.

[Grassie]

I don't usually read the reviews in BGM as I find that there's nowhere near enough info in one article to help me decide on what gear I should buy, but this month they have reviewed Fodera's new Monarch 4 string which comes in at a staggering £11,000, so I read the article and have been left none the wiser as to how a bass guitar can be given such a high price tag. This isn't a dig at BGM's reviewers, it's more of a criticism of Fodera's pricing. I understand that they are one of the world's finest instrument builders, that their basses are played by some of the world's finest bassists. I also understand the craftsmanship and time involved in making one of these basses. Combining all these factors still does not explain an eleven grand price tag. Not to me anyway...

Edited April 5, 2015 by Grassie

[JapanAxe]

Players of electric instruments are used to price tags that are stupidly low compared to those in the orchestral world.

I started on a £90 instrument. Then I was happy paying £250, then £400, then £700. Eventually I broke the £1,00 barrier, and in recent years my biggest single-instrument spend has been £2,500. You can still get instruments at all these price points, it's just down to what you want.

I expect Fodera have added together material costs, skilled labour costs, and a proportion of development costs; then allowed themselves, the distributor, and the retailer a markup to make their business worthwhile.

[Beer of the Bass]

I think keeping their workshop in New York might be a part of the pricing. It can't be the cheapest place to run a manufacturing business!

[chris_b]

As has been said, £11000 is cheap for an orchestral double bass.

I understand expensive stuff. Mont Blanc's, Aston Martin''s, holidays on Necker would all be on my wanted list if I had the spare cash. I've played Fodera's and they feel like they are worth it.

That you don't understand Fodera's prices is not anyone else's problem, but yours.

[Grassie]

I don't have a problem with it as I'm not in the market for one of their basses. It's an observation more than anything. Not looking for an argument...

[HowieBass]

Pricing high might operate a little like the nightclub queue - that phenomenon where, even when the club is essentially empty, you create a queue to signpost high demand which then actually creates a demand (I believe there have been experiments - by Stanley Milgram? - where people join queues/crowds even when they don't know why the queue/crowd exists). The suggestion that if it's expensive it MUST be good?

[jazzyvee]

Ive tried out a few foderas in recent years and whilst i dont like how i sound playing them, they sound great when i hear other bass players using them. James genus was playing one with herbie hanock live at the symphony hall in brum and it had the best live bass sound ive heard in that venue. That said if i had £11,000 to spend on a bass i'd buy an Alembic.

Edited April 5, 2015 by jazzyvee

[Chiliwailer]

There are people out there where £11k is not a big purchase, they can easily handle that without batting an eyelid.

I can't see any reason why Fodera shouldnt exploit that if they want to, but I agree with the OP whereby how can that huge amount be justified against other basses, even Fodera's own, that are around £6k etc. I'm sure they can 'explain' where that extra £5k goes and if that makes someone want to buy it then I'm happy for them.

The plus £10k vintage market has been exploiting the rich, posers, show offs and occaisonal cash rich dedicated vintage fan for years, so why not also a modern high end maker who sell top notch amazing gear?

Like I said, this price tag is peanuts to the rich and they'd love a purchase like that. As for you and me.....

[Grassie]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1428230812' post='2739290']

I can't see any reason why Fodera shouldnt exploit that if they want to, but I agree with the OP whereby how can that huge amount be justified against other basses, even Fodera's own, that are around £6k etc. I'm sure they can 'explain' where that extra £5k goes and if that makes someone want to buy it then I'm happy for them.

[/quote]
Yes, this. Even if I had the money I'm not sure if I would spend that much on a bass even if I could justify it by playing as a professional every night.

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1428231255' post='2739298']

Yes, this. Even if I had the money I'm not sure if I would spend that much on a bass even if I could justify it by playing as a professional every night.
[/quote]

Yes, and I would presume that the vast majority of these won't be sold to that kind of player anyway. Many won't leave the house. I'm not saying that as a dig at potential buyers, not at all.

[Graham]

The price tag probably means the only people playing them are successful professionals, for whom it's an essential tool and the cash rich who can afford what is percieved to be the "best" bass by virtue of being the most expensive.

I do remember reading sonewhere that Fodera don't actually make a lot of margin on their basses though, once you deduct their overheads.

[JimBobTTD]

I totally understand the price. I have not had the pleasure of playing one, so I cannot comment on whether they are worth their price. I can understand that a bass could be worth that much, though.

I find it beyond foolish to pay a huge sum of money for cars, but many people I know own cars that have dropped £11k in value since they bought them.

A Fodera bass [i]worth[/i] £11k? Sounds fine by me.

[Grassie]

[quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1428232088' post='2739320']

A Fodera bass [i]worth[/i] £11k? Sounds fine by me.
[/quote]
How much value will it lose once you drive it off the forecourt though...?

[timmo]

I understand it. The company probably pay thier workers a good living wage, and have good working conditions. I assume they are all hand made to the highest, exact standards, and not manufactured by machine. Some comapanies target the high end of the market, because that is where they want to be. Hagen Daz is the ice cream equivalent.

[40hz]

I'll take two WAL's for that amount instead ta!

[lou24d53]

[quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1428229461' post='2739265']
Not looking for an argument...
[/quote]

Doesn't seem to take much here!!

[Grassie]

[Roger2611]

I used to work for a Rolls Royce dealer, when i first drove their cars I thought they were good but not ten or fifteen times better that a run of the mill normal car so I couldn't get my head round why someone would spend £250.000 on car, but to the people who were spending £250.000 on a car it is the same as most of us spending £500 on a car, the Fodera is probably not worth the money and is certainly not going to be ten times better that a decent Warwick / Spector etc however to those that can afford it it is like most of us buying a cracking Squier bass....I guess if you can afford it enjoy it

[Mykesbass]

My local jewellers charges £50 an hour for making jewellery. Now, nothing against them, but they are hardly the very pinnacle of jewellery making like Fodera is with bass making. So let's double that hourly rate to take into account the level of experience and expertise of the luthiers, and central NYC living costs, on a 37.5 hour week that would be less than three weeks labour cost without any materials. Seems to me relatively good value (at least compared to a local jewellers).

[Cosmo Valdemar]

Foderas do nothing for me but it would be very hypocritical of me to comment on their pricing as I'm an Alembic nut!

What surprises me is that BGM are reviewing Fodera yet again...

[Drax]

The basses are worth whatever people are prepared to pay.
Keeping supply low and prices high all helps with their marketing.

Personally, I'd feel a wally with one - my chops wouldn't live up to the price tag. All the gear and no idea.

I have however willingly spent much more than that on a car, which I care much less about than my basses.

[Number6]

If Fodera charge 11 Grand i wonder how much Seasick Steve can knock a bass up for.....?

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1428227859' post='2739228']
I think keeping their workshop in New York might be a part of the pricing. It can't be the cheapest place to run a manufacturing business!
[/quote]i wonder why the other bass makers in New York don't price there basses in the same way.? I'm sorry but Fodera price there basses very high, because they have very cleverly developed a name for themselves, and a reputation. There is no way Vinnie and his team make an instrument so superior to Roger Sadowsky or NewYork Bass Works, that they need to charge so much more, its just nonsense. they charge that much because they know they can get away with it.

Edited April 5, 2015 by bubinga5

[Bobthedog]

There are all sorts of factors involved with the pricing: cost of top quality parts / raw materials for a low volume product; cost of manufacturing plus staff costs plus whatever margin the market will bear. For those that say if I had the money I would not spend that much, you are not thinking relatively. It is not a question of having that amount of money, but more of disposable income (also not related to salary) and priorities.

Music is not the only arena with these sort of items. Will a £ 10,000 Beretta shotgun shoot better than a £ 2,000 one ? No but the wood and engraving make it a stunning item to look at.

[Bassassin]

There will always be people who will pay a massive premium to own a brand, because they think it says something about them. There will always be people who will pay for a premium product because they think they can buy talent.

For me this sort of thing occupies a peculiar grey area between amusement and indifference - but to be honest I'm uniquely unqualified to be entitled to an informed opinion, having never played a Fodera. I did know someone who bought one, though, he was OK but not great before he bought it, and funnily enough was OK but not discernably better afterwards.

Probably because it turned out not to be made of magic, but wood and wire, just like my £60 MIJ Jazz copy.

Jon.