How Long at the Pub?

[ratman]

2x45 is the norm for me, but some pubs want 3x45.

[r16ktx]

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1410077798' post='2545801']
So, do you have enough responses to post your reason for the straw poll? I'm dying of curiosity here!
[/quote]
+1 :-)

[Paul S]

It varies around here according to the venue. 2 x 45 mins plus encore to 2 x 75 mins incl. encore. £300 would be good money.

[JTUK]

We price for 2x45. Fee is £280-300 but we will do a local cool pub we want to do for £250 starter price...but sometimes you have to be realistic that that is the top price they can go to. We don't do pubs for the money as we always say they are too much work for any hassle gig so we pick the ones we want to do.
We aim to start from 21:00 but they let us pick the exact time as we aren't cheating them out of any minutes.
If we are waiting for a few more people then might go to 21:30 or a tad later.
We'll aim to stop by 12:00 almost everywhere.
Both sets are geared to 45mins or so, but we'll get asked to play a few extra, and we have catered for it.
We finish very strongly and don't leave much behind so we can only play an extra 3 songs, max..

Edited September 7, 2014 by JTUK

[acidbass]

2 x 1hr15 minute sets generally with a 10-15 minute break.

[JTUK]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1410074186' post='2545772']
We only get £300 for a pub gig but there's a band who have started undercutting everyone else and playing for £150 which is annoying every other band who have always had an unwritten rule to charge similarly. I suppose it's up to them but we feel that it's kind if cheating to get more gigs
[/quote]

£300 is good money and a band that will undercut to that degree is desperate to get gigs.
But if they are only worth £150 then they aren't going to be much of a problem and you may well
get a LL pay that and save money to spend on better bands...

We have recently come across pretty well known local bands in the county, in terms of prestige and draw, actually give half the
tickets away to get a 'sell-out' of the venue, or to get a headline slot, they played for free.

I would laugh at this ..but I also know it to be true, so that rather lets those bands down, IMO...

[jezzaboy]

Up here, fees vary from £150 for the tight ar*ed landlords (somewhere in Kirkintiloch) to £300 for the good paying ones. Most pay around £250.

I prefer playing pubs as long as there is a decent crowd. The money is nice but not my main reason for playing.

[Roger2611]

We play 2x45 plus a couple of three encores, most pubs pay £250 for that round here, we did a working mens club this year that demanded 3x45 for the same £250, the place was always empty anyway...after the last gig there this year they said "can we book you for three gigs next year"....we politely declined

[Happy Jack]

How Long? At the pub?

No problem, you only had to ask.

http://youtu.be/FqWn1yCGJto

[Number6]

Our band love playing pubs.....we may not be overly ambitious but we like the pub atmosphere and if we get a few bob in our bin we are quite happy. I suppose the difference is we are a hobby (mid life crisis) type band whilst some others are true working bands.

[Bassmonkey]

Play from 9 till 11.15. One long set. We aren't the cheapest locally but do bring customers in so are considered worth it. We rarely have to seek gigs. Pubs ring us. It's good fun and working well.

[ambient]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1410074186' post='2545772']
We only get £300 for a pub gig but there's a band who have started undercutting everyone else and playing for £150 which is annoying every other band who have always had an unwritten rule to charge similarly. I suppose it's up to them but we feel that it's kind if cheating to get more gigs
[/quote]

I'm puzzled as to why a band would do that ?

They're basically saying, well that's all we're worth.

They're cheapening what they and everyone else does. It's not just the time you're giving up for that gig, it's the time spent learning to play, learning the set, earning the money to buy the gear, fuel to get to rehearsals and to the gig.

Stupid !

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1410098830' post='2546056']
I'm puzzled as to why a band would do that ?

They're basically saying, well that's all we're worth.

They're cheapening what they and everyone else does. It's not just the time you're giving up for that gig, it's the time spent learning to play, learning the set, earning the money to buy the gear, fuel to get to rehearsals and to the gig.

Stupid !


[/quote]

Not necessarily true, I think. Not all bands are run as businesses; there are many that do not have the same financial or commercial reasoning. Why go for £150 if one could get £250..? Maybe because, in their eyes, £150 is enough..? Not 'What they're worth' (that's not part of the equation...), but what they consider makes the deal worthwhile.
Fixing a price between the other bands is rather close to a 'cartel', isn't it..? Is there no notion of competition between bands going on..? In this 'free market economy', much vaunted in other debates, is this not a healthy sign, a way of cutting out the dead wood..? Basically these are false arguments, as the bands concerned are probably not playing for the same reasons (... or are they merely more 'efficient' than the higher cost ones..?)

Edited September 7, 2014 by Dad3353

[JTUK]

There is competition between bands..it can be cordial and respectful, but it is there...IMO.
The best bands are the ones that justify their fee and one that can earn £300 in a pub must work
pretty hard to get the people in to such a degree that is worth paying them the higher rates.
And to get those extra people in, the band must consistantly proove they are worth it so that differential
continue to works and they continue to get the higher fees.
Various ways to do it, of course...you can of course, be the BEST band playing-wise but that is subjective
to a lot of non musician type people., but if you don't draw, you wont get the numbers in, regardless of what your
tactic is....

A 3 piece that goes out for £150 grosses per man the same as a 5 pc £250 band, of course, but altho the 3 pieces
round here might ask..and get £300... their justification is because the are full time...as if that is any justification in itself,
and they are certainly not regarded as the best bands in musical terms. They seem to have had to drop their prices
by and large and you can say that times are hard etc etc ... but mostly I'd say that that they have been found out.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1410074186' post='2545772']
We only get £300 for a pub gig but there's a band who have started undercutting everyone else and playing for £150 which is annoying every other band who have always had an unwritten rule to charge similarly. I suppose it's up to them but we feel that it's kind if cheating to get more gigs
[/quote]

Shops or businesses which try this tactic usually learn the hard way and very fast that this method is usually doomed to failure

[ubit]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1410101477' post='2546089']

Fixing a price between the other bands is rather close to a 'cartel', isn't it..? Is there no notion of competition between bands going on..?
[/quote]


I see what you mean but we all used to see it as a live and let live kind of arrangement. We all used to play the same bars and venues and thought it healthy for there to be a choice of bands. Everyone kind of scratched each other's back. There also used to be a kind of understanding that even though we were playing covers, we would try and avoid ripping off each other's set, especially with more obscure good numbers. This band don't worry about that either and I have to stop our guitarist putting music up on Facebook as you can bet your next wage, they will be playing it before we get a chance!

[Norris]

We usually aim to do 2x45 or 1x45 + 2x30. It depends on the length of time we have to cover though: with bars staying open later but still wanting you to start at 9 we have to be a little more creative (and extensive) with the set times.

Around Leicester £300 is about as good as it gets for pubs.

[bassace]

Thanks for the posts. As far as my shaky arithmetic goes it's working out at 2 hours or less - 14 and more than 2 hours - 9. I've been playing double bass, mostly jazz, for a long time. Some touring in UK and Europe, generally 2/3 regular bands in a year and quite a lot of freelance stuff. And pubs. Seldom do I play anywhere more than two and a quarter hours a night and never more than 2 hours in a pub.

A few years ago I joined some jazz/folkies who were starting out and we formed quite a useful four-piece. I put in quite a bit of time with them. Work is coming in slowly but the money's not too good; I get less than half my usual rate. But it's OK, it's fun. We also do quite a few charity gigs and again that's OK by me.

But out of the blue the guy who runs the bookings and does most of the business has 'proposed' that we do two and a half hours playing at the pub which, with breaks, makes at least a three hour gig. And I can't do anything to change his mind. I think the landlord is leaning on him. I'll probably walk away next year and do some of those double bookings that I've had to turn down.

As I said, thanks for your posts and in the main confirming my feelings that 2 hours is about max. Nothing wrong with a band getting a good buzz out of a longer gig if they enjoy it and especially if the money is good.

Edited September 8, 2014 by bassace

[peteb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410103005' post='2546116']

A 3 piece that goes out for £150 grosses per man the same as a 5 pc £250 band, of course, but altho the 3 pieces
round here might ask..and get £300... their justification is because the are full time...as if that is any justification in itself,
and they are certainly not regarded as the best bands in musical terms. They seem to have had to drop their prices
by and large and you can say that times are hard etc etc ... but mostly I'd say that that they have been found out.
[/quote]
I don’t see why you think it matters how many are in the band?? Punters just want to see an entertaining band – they couldn’t care less if it is a three piece or an eight piece, just as long as they are good!

There is no reason why a landlord should pay a band with a full brass section, two keyboard players & a Latin rhythm section any more than a three piece, nor should he concern himself whether the band is full time or consists of semi-pros. The only thing he cares about is are they any good and more importantly, can they draw a crowd in his boozer (as you say in the first half of your post)! Talking about how many members are in the band just confuses matters and is completely irrelevant...

Edited September 8, 2014 by peteb

[JTUK]

The 3 piece bands aren't that good... all gtr solos and it takes a very very special player to make that interesting
for anywhere near an hour, let alone 2 sets.
Out of all the bands that do the dates around here, the gtr bands really focus on the gtr...the P.A is an after thought as are the vocals.
Forget about lights as well, so all in all, no, they aren't worth their fee, IMO....but hey, they play blues, they must be cool
And...they don't pull in the punters either, so I really don't know how they get gigs..

Edited September 8, 2014 by JTUK

[peteb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410211896' post='2547263']
The 3 piece bands aren't that good... all gtr solos and it takes a very very special player to make that interesting
for anywhere near an hour, let alone 2 sets.
Out of all the bands that do the dates around here, the gtr bands really focus on the gtr...the P.A is an after thought as are the vocals.
Forget about lights as well, so all in all, no, they aren't worth their fee, IMO....but hey, they play blues, they must be cool
And...they don't pull in the punters either, so I really don't know how they get gigs..
[/quote]
They must be doing something right to keep getting the gigs! As far as the solos goes, that depends on the audience – some love that kinda thing, you don’t…

Not all three pieces play blues – there are plenty of pop-rock trios around…

[phil.c60]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1410211896' post='2547263']
The 3 piece bands aren't that good... all gtr solos and it takes a very very special player to make that interesting
for anywhere near an hour, let alone 2 sets.
Out of all the bands that do the dates around here, the gtr bands really focus on the gtr...the P.A is an after thought as are the vocals.
Forget about lights as well, so all in all, no, they aren't worth their fee, IMO....but hey, they play blues, they must be cool
And...they don't pull in the punters either, so I really don't know how they get gigs..
[/quote]

As the bass player in a three piece (all right, sometimes + harmonica player) that gigs around Brighton and the surrounding area I find your tone quite patronising. Have you seen all these bands that "aren't that good" and "Not worth their fee"? Three piece is hard work - you have to make it interesting. As for the price - we play at one particular venue that's renowned for music, and the punters go there because they expect to be entertained (they even turn their chairs to face the band when you strike up - I kid you not. The first time I played there, only my second gig ever, I was petrified) it's tiny and they have a flat rate of £100+ a jug. You can have as many in the band as you like, or be whoever you want -that's it. Don't like it, fine, don't play there. Oh, and by the way, Gary Moore played there regularly -if it was good enough for him..... and as for lights, well, if you want flashing lights, why not just go clubbing.

Edited September 8, 2014 by phil.c60

[phil.c60]

I should add that we get £200 at other places, and £250 at some ( admittedly that's only a few), so we are certainly not scrabbling about at the bottom of the pile, before you suggest it. I'm not sure what knocking out endless cheesy covers at party or wedding gigs for admittedly what sounds like good money makes you in any way superior. Just pursuing your own ends, as is everyone else, whether that's money, fun or simply a need to get out there and perform to the best of your ability and hope people like it ( which is where I fit in...).

Edited September 8, 2014 by phil.c60

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1410076901' post='2545791']
She'd be pleased to hear that! She is still full of energy and her voice is as good as ever. It sometimes seems unreal to be sharing a stage with her, but she gives it everything, even in rehearsal.
[/quote]

We're often up in Reading so I'll keep an eye open to see if you are on when we are up that way.

Cheers

[peteb]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1410216334' post='2547320']
I'm not sure what knocking out endless cheesy covers at party or wedding gigs for admittedly what sounds like good money makes you in any way superior. Just pursuing your own ends, as is everyone else, whether that's money, fun or simply a need to get out there and perform to the best of your ability and hope people like it ( which is where I fit in...).
[/quote]
Of course there isn’t – different strokes for different folks, etc! What some people like JT don’t like is that the guitar player is very often pushed to the front in a three piece (but not always by any means) as there is no singer-frontman to share the limelight or a keys player to share solos and the tenor or high musical registers. They also don’t like that someone in a trio will make twice as much as those in a six piece playing the same gig and have less gear to cart around and probably need less rehearsal, etc!

I like trios; both to play in and to listen to. There is definitely a knack to playing in a three piece – knowing where to create space and how to fill it when necessary. Not everybody can manage to pull that off…!

I would also agree that I would much rather play to a crowd that have specifically come to listen to a particular band playing music (in a pub or elsewhere) rather than just be the entertainment at a party where you have to try and please everyone in the room, even though they may all have completely different musical tastes…