Being asked to turn down by management

[Delberthot]

I have to agree that there are a lot of bands that play over loudly but round my way there are a couple of hotels that have sold part of their land. The developers come in, houses are built and then the hotel gets complaints from the neighbours for loud noise.

There are 2 pubs in my area where we were the last band to play the venues. The first was the first time they'd had a band- - Vocal PA, I think at the time I had my Trace V-type combo so 150w at my disposal if I needed it and a guitarist without an ego which is a nice change.

We were very quiet compared to bands in other venues in town but the pub still got complaints from the old dear upstairs.

The second was quite a big pub so I had the same combo and a Trace 2x10". By the second song we were being asked to turn down so i disconnected the extension cab, we played quieter, the drummer played with brushes but it still wasn't quiet enough.

The smoking ban has been great as far as I am concerned but it has increased volume levels outside late at night by a hell of a lot. Especially pubs in residential areas and that has been a factor in incresed complaints to pubs as well.

I do have experience of overkill as well though: boxing day last year I depped for a rock band. The pub was so small that we took up about a quarter of it between 2 guitars, drums and keyboards and a 3k rig! Absolutely no need for anything like that. I struggled to hear my monitor which was right next to me pointing right up at me for the sheer volume coming from the PA

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317045933' post='1385878']I knew a drummer who had a kit set up for quiet gigs, smallest shells he could get hold of, he put a pillow inside the snare drum, took the bottom skin off the toms, replaced the batter skin with the heaviest oil filled heads he could, and put a single (actually it might have been a double duvet) duvet in the kick drum. Halved the volume of the kit, sure it didnt sound as nice, but it was really quiet, meant he coul dplay with sticks, and in a mix didnt sound too bad at all.... He was a really really busy drummer too.[/quote]

I know a drummer who has put decent skins on a little babby kids kit, he goes out with a band who use a 3 watt guitar amp, and a genz head into a little 1x8 bass cab. They sound brilliant, but wonderfully quiet. He also looks taller...

[Lozz196]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317042136' post='1385807']
Most rock covers bands are massively too loud

Most other bands are too loud

IMO & IME

You do not need a 2K PA for a pub, 300w a side 'vocal' PA will do it, then use the smallest guitar rig known to man and spill a little into the PA to aid dispersion to the punters.

If punters cant hold a conversation at the bar, or order a drink easily, you are not helping the landlord.
[/quote]

Spot on - the landlords primary concern is selling drinks - if you`re too loud, this prevents them doing just that.

[risingson]

The short and tall of it is that if they're being unreasonable by telling you to turn down (when you're operating at a reasonable level) then they shouldn't even be putting on live music in the first place and they are undeserving of having you as live entertainment. Look elsewhere for gigs.

[Hutton]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1317039175' post='1385725']
I do have some issues with people who move in next door to a pub and then complain when it gets a bit noisy. If you live near a venue it's only to be expected that there will be some noise. I live near a social club that regularly has the back door open while music is being played, smokers who holler at the top of their voices all night, and customers who seem to like spending 20 minutes shouting goodbye and revving car engines & doing donuts in the car park. I wouldn't dream of complaining though - I knew the club was there when I moved in. Unfortunately, not all people are quite as tolerant as me.
[/quote]

I had no choice to live where I do as I am in a tied house. I am a tolerant person. However, when I have to work the next day I value my sleep. Excessive noise at 1am and sometimes 2am is just not acceptable.

[Chris2112]

I agree with the comments about the majority of bands being too loud, often in attempt to deafen their audience into submission. Nuance gets lost in the loudness, and the playing is often fairly sloppy too. Turn the volume down and you'll regain some dynamic impact, which always appeals to the audience. But you'd better be a good band, because you'll have nothing to hide your mistakes then...!

It ties in with the reason why I rarely go clubbing anymore. I'd much rather sit with friends and drink in a decent bar where the conversation can flow than have to shout in each other's ears in a nightclub.

[Blademan_98]

Surprisingly, if you are too good and hold the audiences attention, the pub also loses as people don't want to get up and get another pint!

[Cat Burrito]

I'm in the quietest band I've ever been in and I'm always guided by soundmen / venues, purely on the grounds they *should* know their venue & client base. I agree with the majority of the comments posted thus far

[peteb]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317038354' post='1385705']I'd just say to them - and i have said this - "Don't book bands - get yourself a disco, duo or have a quiz" but not something WITH ACOUSTIC DRUMS. I just don't get why they would book a full band if noise is an issue. Its like a vegetarian ordering a bacon sandwhich then complaining its got meat in. Derrr - hello.

There is a limit to how low you can go on drums and believe me our poor drummer was using spaghetti sticks and was using the lightest touch on his bass pedal. It wasn't good enough for the venue. We had a quick chat in the break and decided we didn't need the gig or the money or the hassle so we packed up and left.[/quote]
Totally agree!

As far as I'm concerned my job is to entertain punters who have come to see a powerful rock band and to get them to come back to see us again and again

I'm prepared to be reasonable but we will not play below a certain level as we're not prepared to put on a half assed performance just to keep an idiot landlord happy. If I was the OP, I would have maybe turned down once and if that didn't satisfy the landlord I would have told him to lay us off and not book bands any more!

BTW - I gig pretty much every weekend

[Marvin]

Your band mates should know better than to play in a town festooned with octogenarians. What do they expect ?
And yes you've got a very sulky drummer.

[dave_bass5]

We did a wedding a couple of years ago, somewhere up north IIR. It was in a small marquee at the back of a pub. At first the landlord seemed like a nice bloke, a bit of a wide boy but friendly enough.
He did get the staff to ask us to turn down a couple of times during the first set and we tried. We turned our sub off, took all instruments out of the small PA and did turn down. We really weren't that loud though, and you could here people talking at the back of the marque during intro etc.
In to the second he stormed over and pulled down every fader on our desk, mid song, and in front of the wedding party who were in full swing. He started to have a go at us and when we argued that we were there to entertain the guests and couldn't go any lower he told us to do it or pack up and go home. He said, in a loud voice, its my pub, i dont care about anything else, you do as i say.

The wedding party were very apologetic, but we didnt make a fuss as it was their day but what a ass hole this guy was.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1317063800' post='1386299']
Your band mates should know better than to play in a town festooned with octogenarians. What do they expect ?
And yes you've got a very sulky drummer.
[/quote]

Heh, I think you may have a bit of inside information there Marvin...

[Lozz196]

In a situation like that Dave, I think I would have spoken to the whoever it was in the wedding party that had hired us, and asked them what they wanted us to do. If they were still happy for us to play, great.

I also think I would have had a word with the landlord and told him, fine, its your pub, we do as you say volume-wise, but this is my gear, touch it again, and you have a greater problem than the one you think you have now.

[JTUK]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1317111373' post='1386726']
We did a wedding a couple of years ago, somewhere up north IIR. It was in a small marquee at the back of a pub. At first the landlord seemed like a nice bloke, a bit of a wide boy but friendly enough.
He did get the staff to ask us to turn down a couple of times during the first set and we tried. We turned our sub off, took all instruments out of the small PA and did turn down. We really weren't that loud though, and you could here people talking at the back of the marque during intro etc.
In to the second he stormed over and pulled down every fader on our desk, mid song, and in front of the wedding party who were in full swing. He started to have a go at us and when we argued that we were there to entertain the guests and couldn't go any lower he told us to do it or pack up and go home. He said, in a loud voice, its my pub, i dont care about anything else, you do as i say.

The wedding party were very apologetic, but we didnt make a fuss as it was their day but what a ass hole this guy was.
[/quote]


hmmm so the landlord was quite happy to take the money for the wedding plus a good few £££'s in sales, and then tries to ruin the wedding ... NICE one..!!

[dave_bass5]

The wedding couple (nice young couple) were standing almost in front of us when this happened. They were very understanding, but didn't really get what was going on and didnt get involved. We didn't want to make a big fuss so didn't have a go at the landlord as everyone was watching and as it was an agency gig we didn't want anything to come back on us so more or less bit our tongue.

I have a feeling he didn't have a music licence and was worried about the neighbours, as there were houses all around the pub.

Just a one off though so water under the bridge.

[Skol303]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317042136' post='1385807']
If punters cant hold a conversation at the bar, or order a drink easily, you are not helping the landlord.
[/quote]

Spot on.

Nothing is more likely to make me leave a pub than some band coming on stage, cranking it up to "11" and fantasising that they're headlining at Donnington, or wherever.

That's the big difference with pub gigs, in my opinion. If I go to a club, or a dedicated gig venue, then I expect the music to be loud: that's part of the attraction. But pubs and bars play a different, more social role - at least for me - and it's important for people to be able to hear themselves speak over the music.

Of course there are exceptions to this, but if it's a paid gig in a pub then the landlord has every right to tell the band to tweak the volume down. It's just a shame there isn't a similar dial for tweaking guitarists' egos!

[dave_bass5]

I think it works both ways though. If a pub is putting a band on to draw customers, advertising live music, then the music need to be at a reasonable level for the crowd to enjoy it.
Ive seen originals pop/rock bands struggling in a pub near where i used to live because the landlord was a jazz fan, so didn't like loud music, but was putting bands on to draw people in, to boost profits.
The bands were always being told to turn down, much lower than usual for a live music pub and soon people stopped going. might as well have put the juke box on.

I think the landlords need to decide what they expect from a live music night. Get a good rep for putting on a good night, or give it up because one or two 60 year old regulars, who sit right at the front cant hear themselves moaning about the youth of today etc.

Just my view.

[dave_bass5]

Forgot to add, i do agree about the music not being too loud at the bar area. Its not a good situation to have to rip your throat apart ordering drinks.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1317118959' post='1386860']
That's the big difference with pub gigs, in my opinion. If I go to a club, or a dedicated gig venue, then I expect the music to be loud: that's part of the attraction. But pubs and bars play a different, more social role - at least for me - and it's important for people to be able to hear themselves speak over the music[/quote]
Quite. If one cannot distinguish between stoked up music fans and a scattering of people enjoying a quiet pint, I'd suspect that the rock-star blinkers are strapped on a little too tightly.

It is simply a matter of service delivery - one plays for the audience and for the person who's paying, not for oneself. Imagine you engaged a decorator to paint your walls magnolia and they turned up with a can of purple, whining that they know best and storming off in a huff when you ask them to stick to the brief.

It's very reassuring that the majority here adopt the mature approach of meeting one's commitments in a seemly manner. I shall have a nice cup of tea to celebrate.

Edited September 27, 2011 by skankdelvar

[BottomE]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1317120490' post='1386882']
It is simply a matter of service delivery - one plays for the audience and for the person who's paying, not for oneself. Imagine you engaged a decorator to paint your walls magnolia and they turned up with a can of purple, whining that they know best and storming off in a huff when you ask them to stick to the brief.
[/quote]
Too simplistic. You make the assumption that the person who's paying, the landlord, knows what they are doing.

[Ou7shined]

I think the blame falls fairly and squarely on the shoulders if whomever books the bands. They should have checked what they were likely to be getting in terms of volume as dictated by the terms of thier licence. It's almost too late once the band has started playing as the damage has more than likely already been done.

I live in a residential area right next door to a pub who put on live acts. I have no beef with the bands themselves because I understand how you hardly ever turn down a gig, even in a pub where you set up in the corner type thing. But there are rules of what is socially acceptable and what is not. As a neighbourhood earlier this year, despite some of the neighbour's attempts to involve the noise abatement people and my own failed attempts to meet with the management face to face to talk about it, we were forced to take the problem straight to the licencing agency. The pub has now cut the frequency of such events but it us still an annoyance. The worst part being when smokers come out for a tab and leave the doors open. Their licence covers them for live music inside only.... they don't seem to care that we can hear it loud as f*** in our beds... then of course you've got an hour or two over-spill noise afterward (but that's a different story).

Yes I moved to this house knowing that there was a pub next door... but back then it was a quiet sports pub. New management took over and decided to market it for a younger crowd.

I play in a loud band, it is inherent to the high energy style we play, that's what our audience want to hear. I despise the allegations made earlier that by virtue of the volume we play at, that I am any less if a musician. I know many quiet bands who can't play worth a sh*t.

We don't play pubs. We play venues with a stage and a sound guy.

[51m0n]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317121009' post='1386896'] Too simplistic. You make the assumption that the person who's paying, the landlord, knows what they are doing.[/quote]

The landlord knows exactly what he wants. He wants entertainment that can pull punters in without stopping them buying drinks.

If you cant provide that without being so loud that he risks alienating his customers or neighbours or getting nasty visits from the council then you can expect to be told exactly where to go.

He can expect you to know what you are doing and play at a volume appropriate to his pub and his clientelle. That would be why he is paying you and not the other way round.

[chris_b]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Landlords are not promoters and are at best usually just business (?) men running a pub. Most of them can manage a quiz night but bands are another thing altogether. These days pubs are under the cosh with noise caused by rowdy punters anyway let alone when a band turns up! A marquee in the pub garden is just asking for trouble. [/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]We've been asked to turn down because of the neighbours and we have. Why would you refuse? [/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]There's a Led Zep band that I dep with and they've just been fired from a long term gig because they didn't take the volume down when asked. These guys are louder than Led Zep ever were and could easily have trimmed the volume without loosing the "vibe". But they refused! That was just silly.[/font][/color][/size]

Edited September 27, 2011 by chris_b

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1317121591' post='1386909']
I know many quiet bands who can't play worth a sh*t..[/quote]
I know many bands who can't play worth a sh*t. The louder they get, the sh*tt*r they're worth.

But you are exactly right. There is nothing finer than a crushingly loud band in full flight and I'm sure your lot delivers the goods to universal satisfaction. The problem arises when some knob totters into the back room of the Cat and Bagpipes (Try our Sunday Lunch Special) with a JCM800 full-stack and proceeds to plaster bloody gobbets of innocent punter all over the rear wall. I have been that knob and I repent most wholeheartedly.

Edited September 27, 2011 by skankdelvar

[icastle]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1317121778' post='1386912']

The landlord knows exactly what he wants. He wants entertainment that can pull punters in without stopping them buying drinks.

If you cant provide that without being so loud that he risks alienating his customers or neighbours or getting nasty visits from the council then you can expect to be told exactly where to go.

He can expect you to know what you are doing and play at a volume appropriate to his pub and his clientelle. That would be why he is paying you and not the other way round.
[/quote]

Absolutely.

Even the dumbest band should be able to tell the difference between Glastonbury and The Toad and Duck as they've obviously managed to get past the stage of miming with their sisters tennis racquet...