Being asked to turn down by management

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1317248838' post='1388774']
I would`t rise to it, it`s a wind up.
Some folk here obviously earn their rent in other ways and can afford to have "integrity" involved in their Classic Rock Covers band.
ok.
[/quote]

Thats the thing, i have a full time job so don't need to take all the gigs we get offered but i do them because i enjoy them. When i say i take all the gigs that doesn't mean i get offered loads of crap gigs.
We never play pubs but thats mainly because we don't go looking for them, and our agents don't deal with pubs. The social club gigs can be pretty sole destroying if you think you are better than that but if you do feel like that then you wouldn't be doing it in the first place IMO.

If some people want to turn down playing, and probably earing money so they can go to the pub instead thats their choice and i do understand that, but those of us that don't aren't any less serious about all this, if anything i feel we are more serious as we are willing to take the good gigs and the bad.

Thats how i feel anyway.

[dave_bass5]

Actually I'm going to retract that last bit about seriousness. That was a bit too much of a blanket statement and I know it's not always the case.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1317128995' post='1387087']
Anyone ever been asked to play louder?
[/quote]
Good evening, all...

Just for the anecdote, and I'll try to keep it short(ish...)...

The scene... A small French village, and a small wedding reception in the only restaurant, with a small hall...
My colleague Michel on accordion and keyboard, I'm on drums. As we load in, the landlord warns us that, dancing or not, we have to finish before three, as the neighbours don't like the noise. "No sweat" we reply.
We had a trick for 'clearing' a dance floor at the end of a prolonged evening, two special numbers, played as a duo: 'Saucerful of Secrets' and 'In the Court of the Crimson King'. Yes, organ/drums duo. This usually stops any late waltzing.
We get the nod from the landlord 'It's time to close', so we launch into our 'outro' specials, and brought the evening to a successful, if somewhat noisy, conclusion.

...

Two years later, another wedding, at the same venue (we'd not played there in between...).
As soon as we arrived, we were recognised by the landlord, who insisted on us finishing off the evening, at any time we liked, as long as we ended on that same climax..! I don't know how it had gone down with the neighbours, but he and his staff pushed us to once again release all fires of hell (OK, as much as one can as a duo..!), so, after the musette, light rock, slows, ballads etc, we gave them what they asked for, and rocked the house down again. They loved it.
Just saying...
PS: yes, the newly-weds and their guests enjoyed the whole evening each time; they're the ones that paid us (although most of the congregations are well past sell-by date at 3 in the morning at a French wedding...).

Edited September 28, 2011 by Dad3353

[tauzero]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1317235815' post='1388554'] Can I sit on the Basschat mediocrity bench with you? And there might be some others along in a bit. Could get crowded.[/quote]
It's my ambition to be mediocre. After all, your targets should always be attainable but never easy.

[ironside1966]

[size=5][font=Calibri][color=#000000]The point about why doesn't the landlord not listening to the advice of the professionals, it is the landlord who is the professional he is the one who runs the pub for a living, the majority of pub bands are people indulging in hobby or making a bit of extra cash and the truth is a compromise will spoil their fun. [/color][/font][/size]

Edited September 29, 2011 by ironside1966

[BigRedX]

I can both sides.

If the venue is paying the band and asks them to turn down then it is the band's responsibility to do so.

However I also think that it is unrealistic for a venue to book bands with acoustic drums it the acceptable volume levels for live performances at the venue are below the level achievable by your average drummer. In that case they should stick to more suitable entertainment that can play at the volumes required.

Maybe a little bit of research by both the band and the venue should be done before agreeing to a booking.

I've only come across this once when Dick Venom & The Terrortones were approached to play a café in Nottingham. 5 minutes on-line showed that the all the other gigs there were acoustic. A quick phone call to the promoter asking them if they were sure they wanted us to play as we are loud, raucous and like to physically interact with the audience and no we don't do "unplugged" resulted in an alternative booking at a more suitable venue and saved everyone wasted time and potential embarrassment.

[algmusic]

[quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1317233612' post='1388517']

Me Too +1000000000

I have never turned down a paying gig and don't intend to.

If someone wants to pay me to play, I will take the money and give the best performance I can within their remit.
[/quote]


I think this the actual point of this thread and most people have missed it. If you are getting PAID, and you want to get paid again, you do what you're told by the client.. simple as

[peteb]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1317238551' post='1388598']
So what is your approach?
[/quote]
Seeing as you asked………..

Until recently I was playing in rock covers band that played the bike rally circuit and had quite a decent local following around the music pub venues. One of the things that several people said to us was that they liked us was because “it was just like watching a ‘proper’ band at St Georges” (the local concert hall)!

Now we were playing pubs and not concert halls so there were obviously certain compromises to be made, but watch defines bands at that level is where you draw the line and refuse to compromise too much! We always had a decent PA, some lights and played proper live arrangements (including harmonies) at a proper stage volume, not excessively loud but enough to make everything sound right and louder than many other (but not all) pub bands!

Most landlords loved us because we got a decent crowd and those who didn’t – well we just didn’t play at their pubs (I should say that we were by no means unique and there were 3 or 4 similar bands in the area that had a similar approach and always got an audience)

I now play in a band that plays in a different genre and travels around a bit, not quite as loud but as it now has the same drummer it’s in the same ballpark. I’m just about to set off to my 5[sup]th[/sup] gig in 7 days (and one of the days off involved a ferry and a 500 mile drive back from a gig), so I’m not exactly short of gigs! Fairy nuff if you’re happy playing social club gigs thru an agent – that’s great and obviously different rules apply – but I did that (very briefly) and like you said, found it a bit soul destroying. I’d rather be down the pub!


[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1317248838' post='1388774']
I wouldn`t rise to it, it`s a wind up.
Some folk here obviously earn their rent in other ways and can afford to have "integrity" involved in their Classic Rock Covers band.
ok.
[/quote]
That’s a f***in dumb statement if you don’t mind me saying so!

I make a few quid from music but it is by far the leeast significant part of my income compared to my day job. I’m hardly likely to expect to make a decent living from playing rock covers in pubs!

As far as integrity goes….. the rock band always thought that we were four aging rock musicians keeping our hand in by playing a set based on Van Halen covers with the odd bit of nonsense thrown in (a HM version of a Britney Spears song complete with a guitar solo nicked from an old Dio song anyone?) - I don’t any of us were too bothered by integrity – doesn’t mean that we should strive to be crap!

[dave_bass5]

I'm not sure what to make of all that but you seem to be happy doing what your doings, as am i so i don't see much difference to be honest, other than the fact that we (my band) have never been, and never wanted to be a pub band (or play pubs) so maybe we bypassed the [color="#000000"]mediocrity[/color] at an early stage.

As for social club gigs, thats a very small % of our gigs and we mostly look on them as a bit of a breather from the weddings, a good place to try out new songs and get paid, no real preasure, plus the beer is dirt cheap.

[Dr.Dave]

If I'd wanted to compromise I'd have joined a cub band and made a lot of cash - but I didn't.

We explain to all venues new to us what we are and what we do. If that's not what they want we all shake hands and we don't play there. If we get asked to turn down at a venue we do so - we don't want to upset anyone - but we let our feelings be known as we took trouble to explain what sort of band we are before we took the booking , and we never play there again.

[peteb]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1317326268' post='1389615']If I'd wanted to compromise I'd have joined a cub band and made a lot of cash - but I didn't.

We explain to all venues new to us what we are and what we do. If that's not what they want we all shake hands and we don't play there. If we get asked to turn down at a venue we do so - we don't want to upset anyone - but we let our feelings be known as we took trouble to explain what sort of band we are before we took the booking , and we never play there again.[/quote]
Well said sir!

Pretty much what I was trying to say but articulated much more concisely........

[Monckyman]

Hmm, I can`t see where I suggested anyone strive to be crap.
I was merely making the point that for most members here, playing covers doesn`t involve any integrity or artistic feelings.
Everyone likes to believe they can do a good job of work and deserve the fee,if the person responsible for paying you stipulates a certain volume then in my opinion you have to work with that.
It`s easy to say "tell them to stuff it " or " you must be desperate for gigs" if you have a good income from your "day" job.
I also can`t see how saying how many gigs you get and how loud they are and you have standards etc helps clear anything up here.
The question was simple, When the guy with the cash says please turn down do you do it or do you look for other work.
No brainer.

[Ian Savage]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1317336206' post='1389756']
The question was simple, When the guy with the cash says please turn down do you do it or do you look for other work.
No brainer.
[/quote]

Can't argue with that, UNLESS (and there's something of a circular argument developing here) the person booking you has done so with no regard to what type of band you are.
As I said earlier, as a drummer I went to the extremes of making my acoustic kit as 'pub-friendly' as possible (i.e. damped to the point of affecting the tone of it), and to go any further (using rods/brushes etc) would have compromised my performance, so if anyone had been insistant on me going any quieter than I was (and, ipso facto, making the band any more quiet, as you're generally limited in downward volume movement by your drummer) I'd have happily made a fuss if I could afford to walk out on the gig.

For my money, as I said before, if your pub can't cope with levels of around 100dBA inside (outside of course depends on sound isolation, generally next to nothing with the smoking ban and doors being opened all the time), don't book a rock band with an acoustic drummer. I've seen some drummers who could REALLY play their whatsits off and still not punch out major levels from the kit, but these were pros with totally sublime control over their playing - and even then they'd have been knocking on 85dBA on their own.

Acoustic drum kit played for pop/rock = not neighbour-friendly/can't have a conversation within 10 metres of it, IMO, incontravenable fact.

[thepurpleblob]

I play in the loudest covers band ever but I still agree with all of the above. You are being paid to do a job and have to act accordingly (not just in respect of volume). We are quite upfront about being a bit louder than they might be use to and we try not to do gigs where this might turn into a big problem. Our choice/loss I suppose.

[BottomE]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1317336206' post='1389756']
Hmm, I can`t see where I suggested anyone strive to be crap.
I was merely making the point that for most members here, playing covers doesn`t involve any integrity or artistic feelings.
Everyone likes to believe they can do a good job of work and deserve the fee,if the person responsible for paying you stipulates a certain volume then in my opinion you have to work with that.
It`s easy to say "tell them to stuff it " or " you must be desperate for gigs" if you have a good income from your "day" job.
I also can`t see how saying how many gigs you get and how loud they are and you have standards etc helps clear anything up here.
The question was simple, When the guy with the cash says please turn down do you do it or do you look for other work.
No brainer.
[/quote]
For me there is integrity involved. Yes, even in a covers band. Maybe thats where I differ from "most members here" and yourself. I am maybe old fashioned but firmly believe that if we are going to do something we should do it as well as possible.

[Doddy]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317371982' post='1389914']
For me there is integrity involved. Yes, even in a covers band. Maybe thats where I differ from "most members here" and yourself. I am maybe old fashioned but firmly believe that if we are going to do something we should do it as well as possible.[/quote]

I agree...but, you'll get more respect if you do the job as well as possible and are accommodating towards the venue. Just because
you might have to bring the volume down doesn't mean that you can't kick the arse out of it.

I would automatically lose a lot of respect for a band if they left in the interval rather than accommodate the
bosses request as best as they can.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317371982' post='1389914']
For me there is integrity involved. Yes, even in a covers band. Maybe thats where I differ from "most members here" and yourself. [/quote]
It's good to know you're out there for the rest of us. Far too many arse-kissing amateurs (like me) cave in to these wine bar managers and their egregious bleatings of 'Please turn it down'.

Before you know it, the rebellious flame of Rock and Roll[sup][size=1]Tm[/size][/sup] flickers and dies. And then we might just as well be jazzers.

Edited September 30, 2011 by skankdelvar

[peteb]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1317381687' post='1390090']
It's good to know you're out there for the rest of us. Far too many arse-kissing amateurs (like me) cave in to these wine bar managers and their egregious bleatings of 'Please turn it down'.

Before you know it, the rebellious flame of Rock and Roll[sup][size=1]Tm[/size][/sup] flickers and dies. And then we might just as well be jazzers.[/quote]
I know that you were trying to be ironic but you do actually have a point there!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317371982' post='1389914']
For me there is integrity involved. Yes, even in a covers band. Maybe thats where I differ from "most members here" and yourself. I am maybe old fashioned but firmly believe that if we are going to do something we should do it as well as possible.
[/quote]

Sometimes i read the word "integrity" as "ego".

In the old days just being in a covers band was said to have no integrity, but people change thier minds once they start playing in covers bands. Its just a throw away word for "im right" IME.

Im sure we all have integrity (why wouldn't we?) but some people think theirs is better than others, or because people dont agree then they dont have any, as you have shown above.

IMO walking out on a gig cant be covered by having integrity, nor professionalism, not unless both you and the Landlord had mutually agreed it just wasn't working. If that was the case then that's fair enough and it sounds like the best thing to do.

[nomis]

i used to be in a band that was all about volume, we were probably a nightmare, both guitarists has 2 4x12s each and very loud guitar amps, and i was blasting an 8x10 (still am!) we used to turn up all the time and get knacked for it! but we used to love having it loud behind us, we were a doom metal band!

that was when i used to play for fun! (and for pennies) so i never saw it as a job!

since i started playing session work i realized that its not my ability and how much people can hear me that matters,

at the end of the day if i am employed by someone to play a set i am exactly doing that i wouldn't come to work during the day and tell my boss to stick it because he asked me to do what i get paid for, exactly the same in a band, if someone is paying you to play their songs you are playing their songs not your take on it,

same with volume levels.

in short, i agree.

[JTUK]

Who cares...???? you do the gig as you do and you live or die by that ..

If you are unpopular/not rebooked because you are crap or too loud or whatever, it is down to you.
If you packed them in, then the landlord would probably turn his attention to the neighbours, if you were PITA
he'd turn it on you.

If you have enough gigs and play the ones you want, you aren't doing much wrong, if you are scraping around for gigs and don't get re-booked or booked at all, you might consider that is telling you something.

[Norris]

I have a day job, play in a pub covers band, and [b]would [/b]turn down if asked. Do I have integrity? - I've lost track of the criteria

(Tongue firmly in cheek!)


"it’s like fire and ice, and I feel my role in the band is to be kind of the middle of that, kind of like lukewarm water."

[ironside1966]

[size=5][font=Calibri][color=#000000]IMHO integrity is having pride in what you do, my pride was knowing that I could do the jobs I was asked to do to and the fact that people trusted me enough to pay me time and time again. If I needed to play or engineer quiet I had the skills to do it and I could also do the opposite infact I had the skills to do both.[/color][/font][/size]
[size=5][font=Calibri][color=#000000]I worked with many DJ's while doing live sound. I would give them plenty of head room, go for something to eat and when I come back most DJ's would be full blast regardless of a full or empty room. It didn't take long to realize that all DJ'S can't be trusted until proved otherwise if you give them an inch they will take a mile. I suspect many landlords have the same attitude with bands for the same reason.[/color][/font][/size]

Edited September 30, 2011 by ironside1966

[BottomE]

I keep getting misquoted. It was someone else who said "I was merely making the point that for most members here, playing covers doesn`t involve any integrity".

For my part i will always try and get the gig done. The one time it didn't happen was when we were told to finish the gig without the drummer. We didn't want to play a funk/soul set without drums cos we knew it would sound rubbish. Why is that so difficult to understand? So we talked about it and then told the manager that we weren't able to play our set without drums and suggested that we pack up and go. He, i think, was quite relieved as he was worried about loosing his licence due to complaints from neighbours to the council. There were no histrionics or handbags at dawn. It was all handled, dare i say, with integrity. No-one died. We still work in another of their establishments so they obviously weren't too upset.

[skankdelvar]

Leaving aside 'integrity' - which is a matter of subjectivity and therefore an unreliable universal indicator - might I suggest a practical alternative.

Before unloading one's gear, one should establish the height of the stage. An inexpensive tape measure from a DIY store will suffice for this purpose.

If the 'stage' is the same height as the surrounding area, it is likely that the audience is there for a quiet pint and will raise objections to excessive volume. Between zero altitude and about 90 cm, one can cautiously turn the wick up a little bit. Ah! I can feel that Rock and Roll coming on!

Above 90cm, it is almost certain that one is in a 'music venue' and should feel free to exercise one's integrity by turning one's volume knob fully clockwise. Enjoy!

Edited September 30, 2011 by skankdelvar