Being asked to turn down by management

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='algmusic' timestamp='1317128463' post='1387080']


If the guy had done that my wedding the landlord would get no money from me.. I think he's forgotten the way you can make money.. keep the client happy. Even if he thought it was loud, he should have dealt with it better than that
[/quote]

Indeed. Ive never seen anyone mess with a bands desk like that before. We were fuming but kept it all cool.(as much as we could). We really werent that loud to begin with as i went for a walk around the outside of the marquee at soundcheck and at one point i could hear the pub jukebox louder than the band when standing in the middle of the garden, although of course we had more going on in the low freq.

We were paid to create a party atmosphere. By the end of the night we could hear people talking over the band from the back of the room during i predict a Riot, Mr Brightside etc. The clients had requested a lot of indie stuff and while some will say you can play anything at any volume if your good enough you wont get a room full of people up and dancing if they cant hear you.
Not our fault but we were in the right to question the landlord (and wanted to do a lot more after he messed with the desk).

Oh, he did have two garden gnomes missing at the end of the night. They now reside in North London lol.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1317128995' post='1387087']
Anyone ever been asked to play louder?
[/quote]

Yep, as per my post a page or two back we generally get told to turn down at certain clubs by the same old crowd of oldies, and then told to turn up by the younger, more up for it pensioners who are actually wanting to dance and have a good time. Happens often and you just cant please everybody all the time.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1317125249' post='1386982']

That was an extrapolation from something I said earlier along the lines of anyone can play loud.
If volume is inherant to your musical genre\style then it's obviously being done for a specific reason.
Playing at 'pub sensible' volumes in the sort of venues that you and your fellow band members play in would be equally as daft.
[/quote]
Yes, but you implied that we should be able to turn down and still present our specific sub-genre of the art-form with equal impact and feeling. Our sub-genre disregards that rule. Our aim is not to have our audience sitting with their heads tilted back, eyes shut, gently tapping their feet along with the "groove". That's a job for another band.

You know that advert with Motörhead playing The Ace of Spades in a quiet pub? No one would really expect them to play like that would they. We feel our music requires the same verve... our target audience demands it.

All that aside, the fact of the matter though is that 99% of the time our FOH is controlled buy the house sound-guy and yes, you'd be daft to book us for to play The Cat 'n' Whatever... night or day.

Watch this, we'll get a booking for a small pub now.


Is it our responsibility to turn the offer down?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1317128415' post='1387078']
But there are only a limited number of bands that will bring in punters and help to establish a pub as a successful music venue

In my experience, there are very few complaints about noise from landlords who have a pub packed full of thirsty customers who have come to see the band!
[/quote]
Haha good point.

[icastle]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1317129928' post='1387104']
Yes, but you implied that we should be able to turn down and still present our specific sub-genre of the art-form with equal impact and feeling. Our sub-genre disregards that rule. Our aim is not to have our audience sitting with their heads tilted back, eyes shut, gently tapping their feet along with the "groove". That's a job for another band.

You know that advert with Motörhead playing The Ace of Spades in a quiet pub? No one would really expect them to play like that would they. We feel our music requires the same verve... our target audience demands it.
[/quote]

Yep - totally hold my hands up in surrender to that one, I should have been more genre aware.

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1317129928' post='1387104']
All that aside, the fact of the matter though is that 99% of the time our FOH is controlled buy the house sound-guy and yes, you'd be daft to book us for to play The Cat 'n' Whatever... night or day.

Watch this, we'll get a booking for a small pub now.
[/quote]

Ah.
That'd be The Mouse and Shoecupboard

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1317129928' post='1387104']
Is it our responsibility to turn the offer down?
[/quote]

Lordy - it's like the bl**dy % key all over again...

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1317132067' post='1387126']

Yep - totally hold my hands up in surrender to that one, I should have been more genre aware.



Ah.
That'd be The Mouse and Shoecupboard



Lordy - it's like the bl**dy % key all over again...
[/quote]

[chris_b]

[quote name='Len_derby' timestamp='1317128995' post='1387087']
....Anyone ever been asked to play louder?....
[/quote]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]This happens quite often with my acoustic guitarist!!! [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Don't ask!![/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]
[size=4][font=Arial] [/font][/size][font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font]

[chris_b]

[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding from certain posters here about who is in charge when a band is playing a gig. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color]

[BottomE]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding from certain posters here who think that everything is black and white.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1317134027' post='1387155']
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding from certain posters here about who is in charge when a band is playing a gig. [/font][/color][/size]
[/quote]

Being in charge doesn't automatically make you right though. I get what your saying, you do as your told because you are being paid to, but if your a professional band you should/could also offer advice to the landlord, to maybe meet halfway or explain that sometimes there is no one master knob to turn everything down and need to know exactly whats too loud so it can be sorted.
If you dont have a FOH engineer or friend with you it can be tricky to keep the balance when adjusting so many volume knobs, and we tell them that and so far most have understood and worked with us. These day most of our regular venues will be more specific about what needs to go down or up.

Again, just my experience.

[algmusic]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1317134027' post='1387155']
[size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding from certain posters here about who is in charge when a band is playing a gig. [/font][/color][/size]
[/quote]


It's tricky in some cases..

if you are hired by the venue = you do what you're told by the venue
If you are hired by a client who is using the venue = it's more tricky. Your contract is with the client not the venue, but the venue is the boss of the place. I always say to the client, that the 'venue' wants us to do x, which usually put the burden on them not us.

I've only had real sound issue when client hired a loud rock band in a pub as small as coffee and didn't tell the landlord they were bringing a band !! We got shouted at by the landlord and we had to say 'please talk to our client'. The client didn't care wanted us to play. We ended up call our agent to clarify to the client, that we can't play because they haven't given us a 'reasonable' environment to play at. We ended up doing an acoustic gig, which the owner was still a bit weird..

Edited September 27, 2011 by algmusic

[JTUK]

There are plenty of places we will not play as the venue doesn't suit us...
We wont be cramped in...or paid below our rate, or if it is a nuckle-head pub etc etc ..

We have enough dates in the diary to make this choice...

Volume-wise we are powerful but there are plenty louder around here...not saying that is a good thing or a bad thing but dragging round a 3k rig and then you can't hear the drums is a bit silly/stupid/clueless because the bass is too loud.

oh well...

[chris_b]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1317135097' post='1387168']
....Being in charge doesn't automatically make you right though....
[/quote]
[size=4]Tell that to anyone in charge!![/size]

[chris_b]

[size=4]We've been asked to turn down because of neighbour problems in the past and we did. I feel that in the circumstances it was a reasonable request. Last Friday we played in a tiny pub. We could have been quiet but blew the windows out instead. The landlord loved it. [/size]

[size=4]We are only visitors in these venues. We leave and they still have to deal with the guy next door and the council. It's great if you're a round peg in a round hole but if you discover that you're a square peg then it doesn't matter whose fault it is, it's up to you to resolve the problem. [/size]

[derrenleepoole]

A really interesting thread this. Surely if a venue/landlord hires a band, there is a certain level of expectation and understanding from both parties concerned about what makes good live music practice. There's only so much a band can do to play quietly if you're using acoustic drums for example. Even the quietest drummer in the world is restricted by simple physics: stick hits drums, drums make sound! I think if the request to play quiet was just too unreasonable, or more importantly 'unrealistic,' I would simply suggest politely to the landlord that the gig is cancelled, and walk away.

[chris_b]

[size=4]There's a lot of great music and musicians who don't leave your ears bleeding when they play. Players with poor technique and immature egos may have trouble but that is their problem not the venues.[/size]

[BottomE]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' timestamp='1317138735' post='1387257']
A really interesting thread this. Surely if a venue/landlord hires a band, there is a certain level of expectation and understanding from both parties concerned about what makes good live music practice. There's only so much a band can do to play quietly if you're using acoustic drums for example. Even the quietest drummer in the world is restricted by simple physics: stick hits drums, drums make sound! I think if the request to play quiet was just too unreasonable, or more importantly 'unrealistic,' I would simply suggest politely to the landlord that the gig is cancelled, and walk away.
[/quote]
abso-bloody-lutely. In our case thats exactly what we did. The snare was less of a problem than the bass drum. The landlord just had no understanding of the whole thing so we figured after about 5 minutes that we were wasting our time - packed up and left. I believe that he was at fault for booking us.

[ironside1966]

I worked has a pro sound engineer for a long time and the reasons I worked a lot were because I could get good sound at a reasonable volumes, this pleased the venue's, management and the punters , so that pleased the bands because they had a good night and often got a return booking. It is that simple.
I have seen quite a few venues pack in having bands because the are sick of the hassle from band playing too loud although I accept too loud is a subjective.
It is not up to a professional to offer advice to a landlord unless he asks for it, all the pros I know would offer the same advice work with them to get a compromise that everyone can live with but at the end of the day it is down to, He who pays the piper.
One cadet is if you are a band that fill a venue with people who are only there because you are one then you can get away with a lot more.

[skankdelvar]

For some reason I recall a day in late '42. A young chap named Puddephat joined the squadron and introduced himself to Victor Beamish the station commander. As was his custom Victor politely offered him the same, sage advice he gave all the new fellows. Which was never - [i]never[/i] - follow the Hun down.

Puddephat looked him squarely in the eye. "Well, Sir" he drawled "That's fine - [i]if [/i]you're one of the old men and pensioners round here." There was a dreadful silence and Victor - an RFC veteran - coloured to his ears. Puddephat was - of course - oblivious to his ghastly error.

So oblivious, in fact, that he took off next day, went down after an FW190 near Abbeville and - sure enough - copped a packet from ground fire. Somehow he steered his kite back to Biggin and piled it up in the corner of the field. Victor was first on the scene and dragged Puddephat's poor broken body from the wreckage.

"It's getting dark awfully early, Sir" whispered Puddephat, his face ashen with blood loss. "For my mother's sake, spare me a comforting word."

"Certainly not" rasped Victor, his Irish brogue thickening with emotion. "You're a silly sod, it serves you right and now the Devil's sharpening his pitchfork for you."

Puddephat gasped with shock, coughed horribly and then - as I watched - the shadow of mortality crept across his young face.

War is hell.

Edited September 27, 2011 by skankdelvar

[gafbass02]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' timestamp='1317138735' post='1387257']A really interesting thread this. Surely if a venue/landlord hires a band, there is a certain level of expectation and understanding from both parties concerned about what makes good live music practice. There's only so much a band can do to play quietly if you're using acoustic drums for example. Even the quietest drummer in the world is restricted by simple physics: stick hits drums, drums make sound! I think if the request to play quiet was just too unreasonable, or more importantly 'unrealistic,' I would simply suggest politely to the landlord that the gig is cancelled, and walk away.[/quote]

This. Always try to accommodate, of course, they're the boss etc and fair play. BUT if you have acoustic drums and are a certain type of act and the landlord is one of those ignorant muppets who's onle ever had acoustic acts in and doesn't get that drums can't just turn down infitessimally then walk. IME these also tend to be the same ones that have the jukebox way louder than the level they expect the band to play at. :-/

[Spike Vincent]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1317141214' post='1387299']
. I believe that he was at fault for booking us.
[/quote]



My thoughts exactly.If a venue hire a band,it's not the bands fault if the venue hire the wrong band. You don't hire a Ford Mustang when what you really want is a Ford Fiesta.


I personally have never been told to turn down,because we make it quite clear that we are a Big Nasty Loud Punk Rock band, and we do not play unsuitable venues.However,I have seen the other side of this as a sound engineer,and there are certainly cases where bands are louder than is needed.I worked with one band who provided their own monitors ( fine by me,less hard work) and were loud to the point where I was glad I'd brought ear plugs.I got so many complaints that in the end I put a sign on the desk saying " This console is turned off,please discuss the issue with the deaf people on stage". I got asked back.They didn't.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Spike Vincent

[mcnach]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1317127796' post='1387052'] If you are good quality band who can get a significant number of people to drink in his pub who otherwise would not go there (and potentially return to see other bands if they had a good time), then obviously it is the landlord who is losing out the most! Tha band (if any good) can always go and play at a more suitable venue, again taking trade away from the original pub.....[/quote]


and, in reality, out of the many bands playing any given weekend all over the country, how many of them are that "important"?

too many rock-star wannabes playing in pubs, I think

[lojo]

If your asked to turn down, there would generally be a good reason for it, so do it, if you feel to gig is then something you wish to do again, dont, but whilst your there finish the gig professionally and cater to the needs of the venue, even if they change during the night.


Just make sure if the band have to turn down, that the bass is still louder than the guitarist

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1317189220' post='1387730']
If your asked to turn down, there would generally be a good reason for it, so do it,
[/quote]

Not always im my experience. We have been asked on numerous occasions to turn down because one or two people think its too loud and they know the guy running the place so have a bit of sway.
Its like sod the other 100 people, we want to sit in front of the band and have a quiet chat.

Not always, but this does happen.

[dave_bass5]

A few people have suggested you walk if you dont like it, or dont feel you can accommodate. Do people actually do this?
Would you really turn up, play say one set, get asked to turn down, realise you cant/wont and then just pack up in front of everyone and walk out without getting paid?

No offence to anyone but to me this idea is one of the most impractical suggestions ive ever read.