Dood Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Guaranteed to get the discussion heated in seconds: [url="http://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-berlin/fretless-bass-is-a-cliche-instrument-and-it-should-be-outlawed/248767481801782"]http://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-berlin/...248767481801782[/url] [quote]Jason Charles Rogers said, “I love that feeling of a fretted bass with that kind of sound!” Jeff answered: I don't play fretless at all because I personally regard it as a cliche instrument! I've never heard a fretless bass player sound unique in their fretless sound since Jaco Pastorius. To me, this makes their musical contributions fall into the imitator status, something that many still do because their fans don't seem to mind the musical imitation element connected with their favorite fretless players. I recognize that I am pretty much alone in my point of view about fretless (what aren't I almost alone in!) The reason is that the fretless bass has a tone automatically built into it and that the tone was copyrighted when Jaco first presented it. But the fretted bass had no original sonic stamp attributed to one guy. Neither does piano, drums, guitar, or horn have anyone who is THE definer of that instrument’s sound. These are generic instruments which have a legion of unique voices, different in sonics from each other as an orange is from an apple. But so far, the fretless bass is ONLY an orange and everyone who plays it always includes that specific fretless sound, nearly impossible to avoid, and so far, nobody hasn't, not to my way of looking at it! They are all out of tune or they slide harmonics, or they play harmonics, or they slide notes. Nothing different here![/quote] Err... Discuss, I reckon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) I would agree that fretless tends to have a unique tone that is hard to escape from, but I don't see how that's any different from acoustic piano, upright bass, classical guitar, or any other instrument that isn't EQ'd to sound different. If you like the sound, use it, there are no stylistic rules in music apart from those that we impose upon ourselves. PS. IMO, Jeff Berlin may be innovative in his approach to playing, but I wouldn't exactly hold him up as a benchmark of good taste Edited July 12, 2011 by Wil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 eejit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh, how I wish I sounded like Jaco when I pick up my fretless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='dood' post='1301236' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:21 PM']Guaranteed to get the discussion heated in seconds: [url="http://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-berlin/fretless-bass-is-a-cliche-instrument-and-it-should-be-outlawed/248767481801782"]http://www.facebook.com/notes/jeff-berlin/...248767481801782[/url] Err... Discuss, I reckon...[/quote] I don't get it - it's like saying fretless bass makes a certain sound so nobody can do anything different with it. Then in the same sentence he's saying fretted basses don't make a certain sound so you can. The only audio factor thats different as far as I can tell between fretted and fretless is the attack/decay characteristics inherent to each instrument. What someone does with it is open to infinite possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 JB can be such a pillock. So Percy Jones sounds like Jaco, does he? I think not. So Mick Karn sounds like Jaco, does he? I think not. So I sound like Jaco do I? I think not. To suggest all fretless players sound like Jaco shows a complete inability to hear the distinct differences between individual players. THe differences between 30 fretless electrci players is as marked as those between 30 different double bass players or 30 fretted bass players. They all sound liek a fretless/fretted/doouble bass but they all sound different. Wayne Shorter, Joe Lovano, Joe Henderson, John Coltrane, Chris Potter, Michael Brecker - they all sound like tenor players but all sound completely different. If JB can't tell the difference between Jaco, Michale Manring, Percy Jones, Mick Karn and a cast of thousands, then he ain't trying very hard. JB, for all his skills, comes across as a concrete thinker. His opinions are now decades old and show no evidence of reconsideration in the face of compelling evidence to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He don't alf talk crap sometimes. At least he is saying that it is his personal view that many might not agree with. He got that bit right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 he has a rat upon his upper lip....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) He's just being a twat. Ignore him. He only does this to get publicity for his horrible new album of jazz standards. I do generally agree with this however [i]"They are all out of tune or they slide harmonics, or they play harmonics, or they slide notes. Nothing different here!"[/i] Edited July 12, 2011 by silddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 The more interviews I see with Jeff Berlin the more I think he's an opinionated arrogant fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I always agree with Jeff in every respect. But that's probably because I want to shag him. But he's right. It's all woop-woop-ping-woop-woop through a bloody chorus pedal. They're just show-offs with their pursed lips and 'concentration' and thing. Jeff's [i]lush[/i]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='dood' post='1301236' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:21 PM']Guaranteed to get the discussion heated in seconds: Err... Discuss, I reckon...[/quote] You bugger I personally reckon he's way off target here by singling out fretless bass as a one trick pony. Certain playing techniques have become the 'norm' as instruments perform best like that - try hitting a saxophone with a drumstick and see what ya get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Take a look in Bill Bruford's 'Autobiography. He's very witty about what it's actually like to play in a band with Lord Berlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'd never even heard of Jaco til I started visiting this forum, this despite playing a fretless on and off for 20 years. Sounds to me like Jeff hasn't listened to enough fretless players outside of jazz circles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jeff Berlin... is that the fella that's got Spit the Dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) "I recognize that I am pretty much alone in my point of view about fretless..." ^ Brilliant. I love those kind of disclaimers - "you might not agree with me, but..."! And generally, yes, people don't agree with whatever follows. Like in this case, for instance. It just comes across as being a bit arrogant and dare I say, attention-seeking. But heh, I guess it's worked, no?! Personally, I love playing fretless because it's the closest I can get - sound-wise, that is - to playing an upright at the moment. But Mr Berlin isn't interested in all that. He doesn't play fretless himself, and so anyone who does is a "cliche", because fretted basses are, like, so rare these days I find... PS: Dood wins the "Devil's Advocate" award, methinks! PPS: quick edit to note this on Wikipedia: "Jeff Berlin's bass playing is somewhat similar to that of Jaco Pastorius, though Berlin plays a fretted bass and has stated his distaste for Jaco imitators." - and therein lies a grudge, perhaps?? Edited July 12, 2011 by Skol303 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Jeff says Fretless my arse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='blackmn90' post='1301267' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:41 PM']he has a rat upon his upper lip.......[/quote] Which by virtue of his own logic, he should shave off as it is a pale [i]imitation[/i] of my 'tache. Jeff can be a bit of Silly Billy sometimes. If you're a bassist Just let your playing do the talking please. Edited July 12, 2011 by Lfalex v1.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='SteveK' post='1301250' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:34 PM']Oh, how I wish I sounded like Jaco when I pick up my fretless [/quote] Amen to that! Jeff Berlin is a "Male Hen" and if he were to come round here with his Bass and Jazz/classical/fusion slant on playing the much ignored and some cases maligned instrument (by the general populace ) I'd say: [font="Arial Black"][size=5]OI! BERLIN NOO![/size][/font] and give him a slap I bet he'd hate the slap bit too Ha! Edited July 12, 2011 by witterth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 So he's trying to say Dubstep on a fretless sounds like Jaco? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='SteveK' post='1301250' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:34 PM']Oh, how I wish I sounded like Jaco when I pick up my fretless [/quote] I don't sound like Jaco but I was never wishing to - not that I could if I did want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He's right about Alain Caron though, isn't he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='1301293' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:56 PM']Jeff Berlin... is that the fella that's got Spit the Dog?[/quote] I knew Bob Carolgees was dead... ...but I didn't realise Jeff Berlin had taken over the dog... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 [quote name='silddx' post='1301269' date='Jul 12 2011, 04:43 PM']I do generally agree with this however [i]"They are all out of tune ..."[/i][/quote] You've been to one of my gigs then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 "I recognize that I am pretty much alone in my point of view about [s]fretless[/s] Jaco..." ...but I've never had the patience to listen to him for longer than about 30 seconds so wouldn't know how to replicate his sound if I even wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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