70's versus 80's Fenders and the 'vintage' thing?

[Beedster]

Reading a couple of threads on here this morning and they got me to thinking about the magic projected onto 60s and 70s Fenders, and the fact that it rarely extends to 80s Fenders, despite the fact that the latter instruments are often way superior in build and playability? OK, there's loads of factors for sure, but is it partly a result of the 80s simply being more associated with other brand basses. When I think about the 80s I always see names like Wal, Ibanez, Yamaha, Steinberger etc., and instruments from the 80s from these brands seem to have some vintage cache, whilst Fenders of the era don't?

Just thought I'd chuck that into the maelstrom of speculation

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1025593' date='Nov 16 2010, 10:23 AM']Reading a couple of threads on here this morning and they got me to thinking about the magic projected onto 60s and 70s Fenders, and the fact that it rarely extends to 80s Fenders, despite the fact that the latter instruments are often way superior in build and playability? OK, there's loads of factors for sure, but is it partly a result of the 80s simply being more associated with other brand basses. When I think about the 80s I always see names like Wal, Ibanez, Yamaha, Steinberger etc., and instruments from the 80s from these brands seem to have some vintage cache, whilst Fenders of the era don't?

Just thought I'd chuck that into the maelstrom of speculation [/quote]

I think most people buy basses depending on what the heroes play. A lot of great bassists played 60's and 70's fenders, wal's, steinbergers. But i can't remember seeing a picture where a famous bass player is using an 80's fender. Maybe im just too young and am very wrong, having not actually lived through the 80's.

[Low End Bee]

The 80s were rubbish. Damned by association.

[wateroftyne]

There aren't really that many 80's US Fenders, but what the factory was putting out in the early 80s and late 80s was great stuff.

[skankdelvar]

They always say that 'History' starts 25 years ago, so we'll probably be talking about 'vintage 80's Fenders' around 2015. Though I s'pose JV Squiers have already attained that status.

As for Wal, Ibanez, Yamaha, Steinberger etc, I think their cachet is one of functionality rather than 'magic' - namely that they were of demonstrably higher quality than many of their contemporaries and - to an extent - still are. Outside of a band of loyal devotees, there's no established 'vintage market' in these brands yet. Maybe time to stock up?

[Hobbayne]

as I recall, the 80,s was dominated by the Squire series, I bought a '57 squier Precision japanese JV series bass in fiesta red back in December 1984, which was a bloody good bass, even now these are looked upon with respect, some even thought them better that an American Fender.
I also bought a "Silver Series" Precision in the late ,80,s - early '90,s which to be honest I didnt rate that highly!

[P-T-P]

I think it's partly that they're not long enough ago yet and partly that the price of 70's Fenders is still just about within reach if you've got your heart set on one and are willing to bide your time a little or go for one that's not necessarily A1 condition.

Five or six years ago, 70s Fenders were going for £750 to £1250, and 80s ones are now coming up in that price bracket. Another 5 years or so and it's almost certain you'll be looking at £2000 minimum for some 70s action, 80s will be the next best thing in terms of affordability, plus add in the fact they're arguably a better made bit of kit and I'm sure the popularity will rise.

In fact, they may even go a bit nutso on price increases as there was a big gap in production after about '83 so scarcity will be a factor. Wouldn't be surprised to see 80's Jap Fenders and certainly the early Squiers becoming extremely popular too.

[icastle]

[quote name='Beedster' post='1025593' date='Nov 16 2010, 10:23 AM']Reading a couple of threads on here this morning and they got me to thinking about the magic projected onto 60s and 70s Fenders, and the fact that it rarely extends to 80s Fenders, despite the fact that the latter instruments are often way superior in build and playability? OK, there's loads of factors for sure, but is it partly a result of the 80s simply being more associated with other brand basses. When I think about the 80s I always see names like Wal, Ibanez, Yamaha, Steinberger etc., and instruments from the 80s from these brands seem to have some vintage cache, whilst Fenders of the era don't?

Just thought I'd chuck that into the maelstrom of speculation [/quote]

I'm going to bite this from a slightly different perspective.

Fender basses appeared in the 1950s and by the 1960s and 1970s had more or less dominated the market, yes there were Hofners, Gibsons and a few other high end marques about, but Fender was the leader.

Then the 1980s appeared, haircuts got weird and the popularity of white trousers went through the roof - everything was clean cut, fresh and modern - it was all very different from the previous decades.

Steinberger, Jaydee, Wal, Ibanez, Aria, Yamaha and a whole raft of smaller suppliers took the basic concept of a bass guitar and updated them to match the fashion of the time.
The biggest bands of the day (Level 42, Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet etc.) adopted these basses and within months they were [b]the[/b] basses to have.

Fender carried on as they had always done before but no longer had the publicity dominance they had previously had.
They made a few minor tweaks, a few production changes, bought out new models as they always had in the past and drifted through the 80s in relative obscurity as far as the general public were concerned.

I reckon that's why 80's Fenders aren't highly sought after - they weren't iconic and representative of the 80's!

Alternatively, blame Spock, Antman and Waterboard, or whatever they were called, not for any reason other than the fact that they sold the same record 25 times by just tweaking the drum machine....

[casapete]

My experience of 70's Fender basses is that the ones made earlier in the decade seemed a lot better than those later on.
Although not faring as badly as some of their guitar output ( poor QC, heavy bodies etc) I generally feel that the late 70's
was a poor time for Fender, and that by the 80's and the rebirth of the company they had manged to address most of these issues.

Makes me laugh when I see late 70's Strats etc going for £2000+, when you could get a superb Custom Shop instrument for that price.
Aah, the lure of 'vintage' eh?....

[Lozz196]

The only bassist that immediately springs to mind using Fender in the 80s, to me, is Duff McKagan.

Does seem strange that an identical instrument is worth some 4 times as much, purely due to its year of manufacture, especially if all the compnents are made of the same materials. Still, an item can only be worth it, if the buyer is willing to pay it.

[bubinga5]

i have always thought that its got more to do with the music of the 60's and 70's than the basses.. it was a magical time, and fenders were the basses of those times...

[Cat Burrito]

I think birth year is a factor for some players too and the people born in the 80s are going to have more income than they did in their teens. I predict a rise in the interest of 80s basses. And I say that whilst being in general agreement with most of the points above

[fingerz]

I think icastle makes a really good point above.

Fenders were getting a bit common in the 80's and people looked elsewhere, probably for appearance reasons more than anything else initially. I own an 80's Jazz and urge anybody looking for that old school tone to look around at them. Fantastic bass, done loads of gigs with it, sounds amazing, action is the best I've played. I think the fact that people had more options in 80's took the iconic factor away from Fender form that period slightly.

[martthebass]

I was recently looking at buying into a 70s Fender (thanks again for the help Chris and WoT).

Do I believe they sound better or play better than a modern one.............no.

The only reason I considered it was because I could pick up something with a few dings/player rash, gig it for a few years and if I came to sell it it would go for the same cash/more in all likelihood.

If I could play a 2008 Jazz or Ray and achieve the same I would never look at a 70s Fender-period

Edited November 16, 2010 by martthebass

[icastle]

[quote name='martthebass' post='1026190' date='Nov 16 2010, 06:33 PM']I was recently looking at buying into a 70s Fender (thanks again for the help Chris and WoT).

Do I believe they sound better or play better than a modern one.............no.

The only reason I considered it was because I could pick up something with a few dings/player rash, gig it for a few years and if I came to sell it it would go for the same cash/more in all likelihood.

If I could play a 2008 Jazz or Ray and achieve the same I would never look at a 70s Fender-period[/quote]

They will - as long as you don't try and sell it until 2050...

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='icastle' post='1026214' date='Nov 16 2010, 06:53 PM']They will - as long as you don't try and sell it until 2050... [/quote]
True to a point but I think there will always be something about 20th Century instruments as it's the birth of rock 'n' roll etc

[peteb]

No one has said the obvious - in the 60s & 70s there was limited choice (only ricks, gibson & hofner - all pretty flawed basses) & Fender was the industry standard bass guitar

Then in the 70s, Leo put the MM stingray on the market and people became aware of Alembic and a different take on quality and then come the 80s there were so many companies that just started making much superior quality basses! The Fenders of the era were not too great & suffered badly by comparison

Fenders still retain a certain charm & are the reference bass guitar sound for many, but you can buy so many much better sounding & put together basses!

Edited November 16, 2010 by peteb

[Mykesbass]

The other thing with 70's Fenders is that by now, all the really bad ones have probably gone and what we are left with is the best of, what frankly was, a poor period of their history.

[3below]

Ah the late 70s, the days of grants at university, so I doubled my my money on a 1958 EB2 and bought a 77 precision new with some of my first grant cheque. Still owe my wife on some of that one when it caught up with me. It was a strange mixture, excellent quality parts but poorly assembled. I wrote to Fender UK, got a handbook / setup advice in return. Followed the instructions and voila an excellent bass. It had the best action I have ever had from a bass. Some of this may have been to do with the shop I bought from - no setup I guess, but I would have expected better for a premium instrument. I think Jazz basses were something like £25 extra at the time. Like all instruments there will be good ones and the rest. Current bass is a 1985 G&L SB1, for me it just does it all, and it magically stays in tune for weeks on end.. play it, put in case, bring back out & in still in tune, it is becoming a talking point in band. Have had it for 17 + years and no intention of changing.

[Gust0o]

I'd define myself as a fan of 80s basses, if only of a select nature and branding.

What I would say, to echo some of the above, is that Fender simpy aren't synonymous with the period - whereas some brands are, or more so.

I'm not sure I would term the '80s as vintage, just yet (allowing for the march of history), but it's certainly a period of interest, and Skank may have a point in stocking up.

[bassbloke]

[quote name='icastle' post='1025911' date='Nov 16 2010, 02:33 PM']I'm going to bite this from a slightly different perspective.

Fender basses appeared in the 1950s and by the 1960s and 1970s had more or less dominated the market, yes there were Hofners, Gibsons and a few other high end marques about, but Fender was the leader.

Then the 1980s appeared, haircuts got weird and the popularity of white trousers went through the roof - everything was clean cut, fresh and modern - it was all very different from the previous decades.

Steinberger, Jaydee, Wal, Ibanez, Aria, Yamaha and a whole raft of smaller suppliers took the basic concept of a bass guitar and updated them to match the fashion of the time.[/quote]

+1. Take, for example, rock and metal bands. A lot of bands changed their image for the 80s and in came spandex and a whole host of other fashion disasters. A Fender Precision or Jazz just looked out of place. Even Iron Maiden dropped Fenders in favour of spikier instruments with louder paintjobs.

The irony is that a lot of the instruments - BC Rich Gunslingers, ESPs, Ibanez, Jackson and Charvel were just modern takes on the jazz and precision with more sculpted bodies and pointier headstocks.

[icastle]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='1027013' date='Nov 17 2010, 04:13 PM']I'm not sure I would term the '80s as vintage, just yet[/quote]

Best news I've heard all day as I was in my 20's back then...

[icastle]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='1027024' date='Nov 17 2010, 04:26 PM']The irony is that a lot of the instruments - BC Rich Gunslingers, ESPs, Ibanez, Jackson and Charvel were just modern takes on the jazz and precision with more sculpted bodies and pointier headstocks.[/quote]

...and ironically it wasn't just the basses that had more sculpted bodies and pointier headstocks...

[Doctor J]

Give it another 10 years, it's got nothing at all to do with quality, just got to be at least 30 years old and American made. When I started playing the general consensus among older players I knew (who would have started playing in the 70's) was the 70's Fenders were junk. Bear in mind that this is the era of the lawsuit bass, of Japanese instruments taking huge chunks of the market while Fender's (and Gibson and many other US maufacturers who had let quality plummet through the 70's) sales suffered accordingly. Has anything changed? Has time made a once poor instrument good, or is it the exclusivity and the whole "riding another man's ass groove" of a kid playing an instrument made before he was born which is mojo'd, has a story to tell, however you want to describe the lure of an aged instrument. It's funny how that point where good became sh*t keeps creeping... staying thirty years or so behind. When I started playing in the late 80's, the pre-CBS were good, anything after was bad, then all of the 60's were great and all of the 70's were sh*t, black and white. Then good crept back to the mid 70's now it seems the early 80's ones were good. Funny, I don't remember anyone saying that in the late 80's. The legend of the 83 Smith strat, when finally enough was enough, strat design got back to basics, no more cutting corners, yet that horrible plastic control plate Jazz came out around the same time. Ahhh it is amusing. Look at any FS section and an early 80's US Fender will be two or three times the price of the Japanese Fender/Squier/Other which was clearly the superior instrument of the era. A 70's Fender also seems to be part of the Indie uniform, which will help to stimulate demand. When the full on 80's revival kicks in all of a sudden we'll be back to bright green BC Rich's and and Kubickis!

For f*** sake, even pancake bodied Les Pauls are desirable now, any old crap will sell once it's 30 years old and Made In USA

[icastle]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='1027038' date='Nov 17 2010, 04:37 PM']When I started playing in the late 80's, the pre-CBS were good, anything after was bad, then all of the 60's were great and all of the 70's were sh*t, black and white. Then good crept back to the mid 70's now it seems the early 80's ones were good.[/quote]

LMAO - that is [b]so[/b] true.
I'm going to don my asbestos and kevlar underwear now... the only real advantage I could see in having a pre CBS strat was that the horrible paint finish was starting to wear off