Yet another pa question

[jezzaboy]

When our guitarist buggered off he took along with him his pa and his controlling ways, so don`t slam the door on the way oot.

 

Now we have a Behringher mixer and all the cables and need a set of active speakers. We sometimes have a provided pa when we do larger venues so it`s mostly for your average sized pubs that need them for. Budget isn`t great, around £800, maybe £900 so we are looking at Alto TS, Yamaha DBR or EV ZLX, all seem like decent budget speakers.

 

The question is do we go with 10`s or 12`s? There will more than likely just a bit of kick drum and vocals going through them. Space for storage at home and for transporting is tight so I`m moving towards the Yam DBR 10`s which seem like a popular choice at £375 or I can get the Alto TS 412 for the same price but are of course a good bit bigger and heavier.

 

What do you guys reckon? Better to have a larger speaker in case we need to do a bigger hall or would the Yamaha`s do for vocals and kick in your average pub? This has been doing me head in for weeks and I need some real world experience. Ta

[Happy Jack]

Real world difference in size & weight of active cabs isn't what some people think. 15s are bigger & heavier than 12s, 12s than 10s, bit not that much. 

 

Future proof! Go 15s!

[casapete]

Although speaker size isn’t everything, I’d get the most robust cabs you can ( probably the 12’s).

 

Have you considered s/h at all? You may get lucky and find something otherwise out of your

budget when new.

[12stringbassist]

15's are the answer if you can do it.
We use the equivalent of these and they are great.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-B115W-Professional-Powered-Speakers/dp/B00DMRV9H6

We also have a pair of Alto bass bins. Similar to these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Devine-Artis-15-inch-Active-Subwoofer/dp/B084YZ9JMV

Edited August 13, 2023 by 12stringbassist

[tauzero]

I like light and small, so I went from RCF ART710s to Alto TS408s. First gig with them will be in a fortnight.

[jimmyb625]

I have a pair of Alto TS312's and really like them, although now I've also got access to a pair of RCF 945's, so they don't get used as much. 

I've run our full band through them (just kick and overheads on the kit) and they're ok, certainly good enough for most pubs. You don't get the full "thump" from the bass drum (to my ears at least) but when it's combined with the acoustic sound from the drums, it seems ok.

What I would say, is if you can combine them with a sub (I use the Alto TS315s now) it makes a world of difference. Not only does it give you slightly more displacement for the kick, it also lets the tops focus on delivering mids and high frequencies, without the power hungry low frequencies.

[Boodang]

We're currently using the LD Systems Icoa 15 (about £400 each). The horn is coaxial loaded which keeps the size down. Can thoroughly recommend, we did a small outdoor gig with them as foh and they were perfect.

[skidder652003]

RCF?

These are our weapons of choice, lovely speakers from a respected brand,

https://clubtek.co.uk/pair-rcf-315a-free-stands-cables-p-6654.html

[Newfoundfreedom]

I'd personally go with a power amp and 2 passive 15's. 

 

Lighter, more powerful, easier to transport and it would probably work out cheaper. 

 

I've had the Behringer 15"s for years. They're plastic casing and only weight about 17kg. Absolutely bullet proof and sound superb. 

[police squad]

I would try and get hold of second hand, QSC K12s. You do see pairs of them for about a grand. I've had mine 10 yers now and they're awesome

[dclaassen]

Another vote for RCF. I have the 15’s and they blow my newer JBL’s out of the water.

[Dan Dare]

RCF is a standard recommendation for reasonably priced PA speakers. You can't go far wrong with them. If you go for larger ones - 12s or 15s, don't cheap out on stands. Avoid lightweight aluminium and go for K&M or similar. Look for something with long legs that opens out to give a wide base. You don't want them falling over when some drunk punter who's dancing a bit too enthusiastically crashes into them.

 

1 hour ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I'd personally go with a power amp and 2 passive 15's. 

 

Lighter, more powerful, easier to transport and it would probably work out cheaper. 

 

The power stage in a well designed active cab will have been specified to drive the speakers optimally. Modern power modules don't add much weight to a cab. Power amp plus passives often works out cheaper, but that's about the only benefit.

[la bam]

I love rcf stuff. Heard loads of bands use them and they always sounded great. 

 

We use yamaha dxr15s in our party band and they're brilliant. Fill anywhere upto 200 easy. Nice sound, light, and mixer on the back too if your main one goes down. 

 

Just one word of advice, don't go for the dbr version - they're significantly quieter and worse quality then the dxr for only a few hundred difference. 

[Phil Starr]

Spend wisely and spend only once. £800-900 is a good budget so you should be aiming for good kit. Of what is suggested RCF and Yamaha are good and pretty much bombproof. QSC too but I’d go for RCF for the best quality for you vocals. RCF have recently discontinued the 300 series which was their base level kit but you may just still find some discounted. The 700 series are really nice and 900 even better. The numbering is fairly simple the 712 is 700 series with a 1” tweeter and 12” bass speaker. So a 935 is a slightly better 15 with a 3” tweeter. 
 

You can just about afford an RCF 712 system new but I’d probably look for used. There are three pairs of 712’s on FB Marketplace today for£600 for example. I’d happily gig with 312’s as well which should be cheaper.

 

If you do want to save money then the old passive speakers can be found really cheaply but you’d need to know enough to match the amp and it’s just a little more fuss to set up. A good option if you know enough and money is tight though.

[Jakester]

I have a pair of Yamaha DXR12s which are more than enough for all of the gigs we've done so far. That's included pubs, weddings, outdoors, large halls etc. 

 

I picked the pair up including covers used for £700. 

 

If it's a bigger venue, I pair them with an old Mackie powered sub.

[Woodinblack]

we gigged about 100 gigs with just the Alto 312s. and they were sort of ok, not great. Now have a RCF Evox 8 so I use that and a 312, and that seems to cover most things.

Frankly if it is just for the vocals shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

If you do want to save money then the old passive speakers can be found really cheaply but you’d need to know enough to match the amp and it’s just a little more fuss to set up. A good option if you know enough and money is tight though.

 

If you go this route, get the most powerful amp you can (within reason of course). You'll get a cleaner sound with a lot more headroom. You won't blow your cabs up unless you do something really silly. Most speakers will tolerate short bursts of up to twice their rated power provided you're not putting large amounts of LF into them. Speaking of which, if they're for vocals mainly, use a high pass filter at 80-100hz between mixer and power amp to lose the mud and increase power handling and efficiency. You won't notice the difference and you will make better use of amplifier power if it doesn't have to push a lot of low end.

[dave_bass5]

We switched from the traditional PA and and large speakers to a pair of dbTechnologies powered 1x15’s a few years ago and what a difference. We went for 15’s as the old speakers were 15’s and we had no intention of getting subs. 
They cost us £680 IIR for the pair. Sound very loud and we have no complaints about the quality. 
A few years ago I got a Yamaha DBX12 as a monitor. It has a slightly more punchy tone and the low end seems a bit cleaner. In hindsight the Yamaha would have been a better option, but back then I’m not sure the were even on sale. 
My drummer uses a DBR10, which is pretty impressive as it could quite easily work as a main Speaker, but is quite small. Before I went 100% IEM the monitoring at the back of the stage between me and the drummer was a full PA.  Sounded glorious lol. 

[TimR]

I don't think the old 'You need 15"s to deal with the bass.' stacks up anymore. 

 

We are using Active Yamaha DXR8s for vocals. Plus we have added a slight touch guitar, overheads and kick drum occasionally for dispersion on outdoor gigs.

 

 

 

[Happy Jack]

 

[tauzero]

On 14/08/2023 at 00:58, tauzero said:

I like light and small, so I went from RCF ART710s to Alto TS408s. First gig with them will be in a fortnight.

 

And very successful it was too. Mrs Zero thought that the sound from the Altos was cleaner than the RCFs were, they were certainly loud enough and lighter and smaller than the RCFs.

[jezzaboy]

As the rest of the band don`t seem too keen on chipping in for the cost of the speakers, I have decided to buy them myself. Might save me some hassle further down the line if things go belly up.

 

More than likely I`m going to with the Alto 412`s. I reckon that they should do the job and cover any gig when we have to supply the pa.

[Dan Dare]

14 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

As the rest of the band don`t seem too keen on chipping in for the cost of the speakers, I have decided to buy them myself. Might save me some hassle further down the line if things go belly up.

 

More than likely I`m going to with the Alto 412`s. I reckon that they should do the job and cover any gig when we have to supply the pa.

 

If you can afford it, it's wise to have your own PA. No worries about dividing the spoils when/if the band splits (worse case is that you end up selling stuff at a loss so everyone gets their share). A plus is that owning a PA makes you a more desirable  addition to bands in the future.

[TimR]

This was a good thread before it went off on a tangent about communism...

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by TimR

[dave_bass5]

We recently upgraded some of our PA. The band were sort of ok with all chipping in, but I ended up buying the new desk myself (with the singer, who is my partner). It seems easier to walk away from the band, or have members leave without having to buy them out etc. 

It also means I get to keep it and do what I want with it between gigs. It’s actually now my USB interface at home.