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redbandit599

Michael Jackson covers- Yes or No?

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Non of the Radio stations have ever stopped playing Phil Spector records have they .

I know that he wasn't in the bands as such ; but he produced (Wall of Sound) , and possibly wrote them too .

So his estate will be earning money all the time .

No one seems to give it a second thought - and he's actually in prison as a convicted killer .

Funny 'ol world

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On 14/03/2019 at 13:17, Billy Apple said:

But Jimmy Saville was never tried and convicted and it’s generally accepted he’s history’s greatest monster.

Jimmy was also a wealthy and very litigious man, protected by people at the Beeb 

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31 minutes ago, E sharp said:

No one seems to give it a second thought - and he's actually in prison as a convicted killer .

I was just thinking this - drug offences, violence and even murder barely get a second thought, in fact there is a whole genre of music that very often glamourises these crimes.

 

 

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Guest oZZma
4 hours ago, redbandit599 said:

The conversation reminded me of Jailbait by Motorhead - haven't heard that in years (it is pretty [email protected]) but the lyrics made me squirm even 'back in the day.'

https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/92629/

Probably quite telling as to how attitudes have hopefully changed from the 'old days' of Rock 'n' Roll excess.

I can respect people who take the courage to speak their "excess" straight in the face, challenging morals and common sense of what is "right" and "wrong" 

I mean, consider Klaus Kinski: he was quite a shitty individual and I can't condone rape, yet he had always been true about his nature, a sociopath and a daughterf*cker. His stage persona was a tragic piece of sh*t, and you can like him because he is disgusting, and provoking, or you can dislike him, but at least you know why.

MJ's stage persona? As someone said, the timid Peter Pan who only needed "friends". He also managed to make people feel "sorry" for him, poor guy. 9_9

Bill Cosby's stage persona? The goofy reassuring upright family man. How funny now, huh? 9_9

That's not the misdeeds that make me vomit, that's hypocrisy that make me vomit. Sneaky, slimy people are the worst.

Gimme Jimmy Page f*cking 14 years old groupies, hands down.

Edited by oZZma

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2 hours ago, oZZma said:

Gimme Jimmy Page f*cking 14 years old groupies, hands down.

I didn't think it mentioned in the article how he did it?

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Even before these most recent allegations I would have demanded a handsome slab of cash to perform any of Mr Jackson's choons. Not because he may have been 'evil' but because I didn't much enjoy his oeuvre. Too perfectly patinated, don'cherknow.

In any event, it was - for decades - as plain as the nose on his face that Wacko Jacko was off the map at 90mph. It was all very sad but when rumours about his 'play dates' began to circulate it was no great leap of the imagination to conclude there was something nasty in the woodshed. Nevertheless the crazier elements of his fan base were keen to look the other way while the rest of us (and the radio stations) said a perfunctory 'Ho hum' and went about our business unburdened by any great concern.

Now someone has made a film about unsavoury events the nature of which almost everyone was tangentially aware at least ten years ago and some are saying 'OMFG! I must immediately retrieve my Jacko albums from the attic and throw them in the cleansing flames lest by osmosis I contract paedophilia or - worse -  my impeccable credentials be laid open to question'. 

Frankly, it's a bit late to be beating one's breast about Michael Jackson and in the event that someone were to be offended by a live, cover performance of Bad (and on purely aesthetic grounds who wouldn't be?) I'd have to ask them if they'd been living under a rock during the 25 years since Jackson paid off the Chandler family to the extent of - er - $23 million and the  Los Angeles cops unaccountably closed their investigation. The victim's father, Evan Chandler, committed suicide in 2009 some months after Jackson himself crossed over but nobody gave a sh*t then so I'm not quite sure why they're bothered ten years later.

Edited by skankdelvar
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6 hours ago, Orbs said:

Maybe because he was investigated by the FBI for 10 years and there was never any evidence of sexual assault?

Then why would such an intelligent, shrewd and savvy man as he undoubtably was, spend his down time integrating himself and sleep with children, let alone paying off millions of dollars to the families of other kids, 'to settle out of court'.  If a bloke down the road was displaying this kind of behaviour the local community would be out to lynch him pronto. Unless of course you believe all the witnesses of his crimes were lying for their own means and that he simply loved children? As for the evidence, well the same argument could be said of Hitler, as there's no direct evidence to link him to the death camps, do you believe he wasn't responsible for them?

Absolutely absurd parallel.Shrewd and Savvy are not words I would use to describe Micheal Jackson in these years.The guy was a wreck.  Its well documented (although Adolph never wrote anything down) that Adolf Hitler was responsible for ordering through his henchmen the deaths of millions of Jews. There is no evidence that Micheal Jackson molested children. Pure conjecture.  He was still a child mentally himself, especially as his mental health deteriorated . This was normal behaviour for him, to have a sleep over with kids, and there is no evidence that the sleepovers were of a sexual nature.

Trying to say some bloke down the road who slept with young boys compared to a very unstable man who was lets face it, was mentally destroyed by his father and the media and cocooned into a whole different world of total fantasy is equally absurd. Im no MJ super fan, but its not hard to see what he was and what happened to him over 20+ years. . He was innocent, but not in the same way the law sees it. He shouldn't have put himself in that situation, but he wasn't a so called evil molester of children. imo

Edited by bubinga5

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Sure But those poor children were actually raped, they claim, and that is not ok, whatever your upbringing so hecrouid have had to answer for those actions eventually. He was just rich enough to evade responsibility 

 

I think the fault lies also with his associates who turned a blind eye and had no such “excuses”

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I sincerely hope he has not done any of these things, that he was just the innocent childlike person he portrayed. That would mean that no children were harmed.

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We play Billie Jean in our set. I am sure we will carry on playing it. I haven't seen the program and I have no idea whether he was or wasn't those things that he is claimed to be, but I don't really associate it with the music.

If anyone ever asks us not to play it then we will, but I would be surprised if they did. Most people down the dog and duck don't really care about that much other than getting drunk.

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12 hours ago, bubinga5 said:

Absolutely absurd parallel.Shrewd and Savvy are not words I would use to describe Micheal Jackson in these years.The guy was a wreck.  Its well documented (although Adolph never wrote anything down) that Adolf Hitler was responsible for ordering through his henchmen the deaths of millions of Jews. There is no evidence that Micheal Jackson molested children. Pure conjecture.  He was still a child mentally himself, especially as his mental health deteriorated . This was normal behaviour for him, to have a sleep over with kids, and there is no evidence that the sleepovers were of a sexual nature.

Trying to say some bloke down the road who slept with young boys compared to a very unstable man who was lets face it, was mentally destroyed by his father and the media and cocooned into a whole different world of total fantasy is equally absurd. Im no MJ super fan, but its not hard to see what he was and what happened to him over 20+ years. . He was innocent, but not in the same way the law sees it. He shouldn't have put himself in that situation, but he wasn't a so called evil molester of children. imo

Have you watched the documentary? The guy was a monster.

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28 minutes ago, dlloyd said:

Have you watched the documentary? The guy was allegedly a monster.

Fixed that for you.

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If Michael Jackson was a fat balding lorry driver from Macclesfield no one would consider that a him sleeping with kids was normal, regardless of what may or may not happened.

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24 minutes ago, Billy Apple said:

If Michael Jackson was a fat balding lorry driver from Macclesfield no one would consider that a him sleeping with kids was normal, regardless of what may or may not happened.

Exactly.

This is where peoples perception of what is and isn't acceptable becomes clouded by a persons position and level of success.

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2 hours ago, BreadBin said:

Fixed that for you.

I would say "allegedly" in the same way that Jimmy Savile was allegedly a bit dodgy.

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9 hours ago, Billy Apple said:

If Michael Jackson was a fat balding lorry driver from Macclesfield no one would consider that a him sleeping with kids was normal, regardless of what may or may not happened.

On the one hand we have the scary FBLDFM and on the other we have a demonstrable weirdo who lives with a chimpanzee in an amusement park but his name's Michael Jackson and he's special so according to some parents that was alright.

Edited by skankdelvar
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I'd be interested to hear if there is anyone who HAS seen the new documentary and feels the allegations have been made up.  A lot of people who haven't watched it are quick to dismiss it, it seems.

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1 hour ago, Paul S said:

I'd be interested to hear if there is anyone who HAS seen the new documentary and feels the allegations have been made up.  A lot of people who haven't watched it are quick to dismiss it, it seems.

My wife has been firm on him not being up to monkey business to the point debates have become heated over it, she watched the first half and was actually crying because she felt she knew they were telling the truth, sad really. 

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Indeed.  I am a hard bitten, cynical ex-copper and at times had a lump in my throat as I watched these people recounting how their lives and the lives of their families had been manipulated and destroyed.

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1 hour ago, Paul S said:

I'd be interested to hear if there is anyone who HAS seen the new documentary and feels the allegations have been made up.  A lot of people who haven't watched it are quick to dismiss it, it seems.

I've watched the first half. I don't think for one minute that the allegations are made up. It was harrowing.

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A lot of people have a huge emotional investment in someone like MJ.

Think how hard it can be to accept a family member of close friend has done something really terrible. If you were a big fan of MJ our instinct is to deny it, as it is so at odds with your world view, surelky you coldn't have misjudged him. You can feel betrayed and even stained by the accusations, and if you are convinced it's effectively a process of grieving for the loss of the person you thought you knew.

Equally if your views were more cynical with tales of pet chimps, nose jobs and dubious skin conditions you might feel the allegations fit with your idea of a weirdo. It might be hard to admit the guy might just have been weird and not malicious.

This can make it very, very hard to view the situation objectively.

In reality, of course, virtually none of use actually knew MJ and our views of him, positive or negative, were largely based on the media's portrayal of him and very few actual facts.

My own view, post-Bashir, was that he was a very damaged individual who might, or might not, be as manipulative as his father. Whatever he did or didn't do, including is own childhood and personal demons, would not have stopped him from knowing it's wrong to take advantage of children.

 

 

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Never watched the documentary but when the allegations first came out it didn't surprise me.

Edited by thebigyin

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