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Overplaying.

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22 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

I quite like the overplayed versions... If only they all overplayed all the time!

 

Seen this vid a load of times and always thought “...but all those guys are just to tasteful to REALLY overplay...” Yes, even their overplaying is on the restrained side compared to what I’ve heard in church and in gigs...

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Hmm just watched the vid and although I agree with the premise I gotta say I preferred it when they overplayed as it shut the singer up !

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I think it depends on the song, though with many worship songs, it is knowing when not to play.

Yesterday we did Glorious Day.  No bass playing until the 1st chorus & then when the turnaround came, I overplayed & mimicked the guitar riff.

A couple of songs later we did It Is Well.  Pounding 8th notes on the bass along with a piano right up until the chorus & then stop.  Organ & guitar take over.  Many bassists (including myself) would keep the bass ringing whole notes in the chorus, but dropping out for a good bit means that when the bass comes back in, it adds power & depth to the song.

Listening to the lyrics is very important too.  You want to adjust your dynamics and/or octave to suit what is being sung.

I was an overplayer when I first got put on the worship rota.  You feel like you have something to prove, when in reality, you don't.

Now, I need to join a funk fusion band to release this overplaying itch!  🤩

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Over the years I've had the impression that some bass players think that any bass playing at all, bar roots and occasional fifths, is overplaying and showing off!

It's about playing what's right for the song, but there's absolutely nowt wrong in my book with a bassist or any other musician showing their Mad Skillz... Just not necessarily All Of The Notes All Of The Time - only occasionally.

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I think we're all working to different definitions, but in my dictionary overplaying = inappropriate playing.

Some players make busy work, ie James Jamerson, even Jerry Barnes (mostly!) so busy is good or bad depending on what you're playing but to me overplaying is a negative term and is rarely good.

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3 hours ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Over the years I've had the impression that some bass players think that any bass playing at all, bar roots and occasional fifths, is overplaying and showing off!

It's about playing what's right for the song, but there's absolutely nowt wrong in my book with a bassist or any other musician showing their Mad Skillz... Just not necessarily All Of The Notes All Of The Time - only occasionally.

You mean roots and fifths aren't all of the notes?? bu*ger, back to the books then !

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Finally watched the clip.

 

The bassist was still classy when "overplaying" - until he slapped anyway - that didn't fit. His taste still came through.

He should do it more often. It moved with the tune and gave it something interesting. Almost like the JS Bach approach to the low end.

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It's about time someone mentioned Norm, and the Rhythm Stick bass line.

A case of more is more. That song would not work as well without a busy bass line.

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20 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

It's about time someone mentioned Norm, and the Rhythm Stick bass line.

A case of more is more. That song would not work as well without a busy bass line.

Often more is more. IMO there are too many songs where the bassists, drummers or guitarists underplay. Not that I'm a fan but Bad Company, Free, ZZ Top , AC/DC, U2 , Oasis and Coldplay all might've been better  bands  (IMO) with a bit of overplaying, especially the rhythm sections.

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1 hour ago, Barking Spiders said:

Bad Company, Free, ZZ Top , AC/DC, U2 , Oasis and Coldplay all might've been better  bands  (IMO) with a bit of overplaying, especially the rhythm sections.

Respectfully disagree with most of those examples. Listen to Mr Big on Free Live and come back to me...

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2 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

Often more is more. IMO there are too many songs where the bassists, drummers or guitarists underplay. Not that I'm a fan but Bad Company, Free, ZZ Top , AC/DC, U2 , Oasis and Coldplay all might've been better  bands  (IMO) with a bit of overplaying, especially the rhythm sections.

With the exception of Coldplay ( I don't know what would improve them for me) all the other bands work because the rhythm sections don't overplay. Bad Co & Free in particular had spectacular rhythm sections IMO, who completely understood and used an understated groove to make the songs work. As Mickeyboro said in the above post, they could also cut loose in a live situation where necessary.

Edited by casapete
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On 03/09/2018 at 12:39, MacDaddy said:

It's about time someone mentioned Norm, and the Rhythm Stick bass line.

A case of more is more. That song would not work as well without a busy bass line.

Busy and overplaying aren’t the same thing IMO

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2 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Busy and overplaying aren’t the same thing IMO

Yup. The difference is knowing when not to be busy.

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I think you have to remember the context that the video was made for.  Don Moen is demonstrating how to play (or not to play) in a church environment when the band is not the centre of attention but is there to lead/support the congregation.  This is a completely different situation to standing on stage in front of an audience to entertain them.  When the band is the star of the show then "let rip" by all means but when you are playing for audience participation (as in a church service) the KISS principal (Keep It Simple, Stupid) is often the best option.

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4 hours ago, LeftyP said:

I think you have to remember the context that the video was made for.  Don Moen is demonstrating how to play (or not to play) in a church environment when the band is not the centre of attention but is there to lead/support the congregation.  This is a completely different situation to standing on stage in front of an audience to entertain them.  When the band is the star of the show then "let rip" by all means but when you are playing for audience participation (as in a church service) the KISS principal (Keep It Simple, Stupid) is often the best option.

Having learned to play at church I think it’s a good lesson to learn which you might not learn as quickly in other contexts- When not to play.

take that and you can go and play in any other band and you can easily turn up the bling - learning when to leave spaces and not play.... I doubt anybody here would want to play in the band in the OP - or that type of music - but the KISS principle is a good place to start in most bands as it means you listen to everyone else first and then busy it up....

 

Mind you when I was learning I was trying to see how many clash bass lines I could sneak in to on a Sunday morning...

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1 minute ago, LukeFRC said:

Having learned to play at church I think it’s a good lesson to learn which you might not learn as quickly in other contexts- When not to play.

take that and you can go and play in any other band and you can easily turn up the bling - learning when to leave spaces and not play.... I doubt anybody here would want to play in the band in the OP - or that type of music - but the KISS principle is a good place to start in most bands as it means you listen to everyone else first and then busy it up....

 

Mind you when I was learning I was trying to see how many clash bass lines I could sneak in to on a Sunday morning...

The organist at my church sneaks in movie soundtracks, in between hymns!! 😆 

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1 hour ago, mic mac moe said:

The organist at my church sneaks in movie soundtracks, in between hymns!! 😆 

Such as 'The Exorcist'..? 9_9

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6 hours ago, mic mac moe said:

I think the very worst case of overplaying on bass is when the lead guitarist "has a go" 

Oh yes! Don’t get me started...

 

”umm yes, lots of notes and I guess you’re vaguely in time”

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1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

Oh yes! Don’t get me started...

 

”umm yes, lots of notes and I guess you’re vaguely in time”

And he's up the neck..... Now he's down it!!! 

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And, of course, the other problem with overplaying is what when you get to part of the song that could really do with a bit more going on... where do you go?

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11 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

And, of course, the other problem with overplaying is what when you get to part of the song that could really do with a bit more going on... where do you go?

............that's when you go to 11, of course.

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