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Toddy17

The most musically talented musician of all time

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28 minutes ago, tauzero said:

I know the last time I said something about not liking Prince's work, I got slagged off. I still don't like the vast majority of what I've heard of his. Like a latter-day Paul McCartney. Still, while it's OK to say what you like about Coldplay or U2, Prince is sacrosanct so I suppose I'll get slagged off again. I won't deny he's composed a lot of stuff and could play lots of instruments, but I'm not convinced of the merit of what he's composed.

Agreed , a bit like Bowie he seems to be one of those you're not allowed to have negative opinions about in Netforaland. For me Prince's best albums are Dirty Mind and sides 3 & 4 / Disco 2 of Sign of The Times.  After SOTT his output is pretty patchy.  As for DB, he had a run of cracking albums between 1975 and 1983. But IMO both before and after that time his albums are generally hit n miss affairs

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37 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

No, he was right. Please stand in line and wait your turn :)

xD

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2 hours ago, tauzero said:

I know the last time I said something about not liking Prince's work, I got slagged off. I still don't like the vast majority of what I've heard of his. Like a latter-day Paul McCartney. Still, while it's OK to say what you like about Coldplay or U2, Prince is sacrosanct so I suppose I'll get slagged off again. I won't deny he's composed a lot of stuff and could play lots of instruments, but I'm not convinced of the merit of what he's composed.

No, I shall also stand behind you on this one. I find Prince quite a frustrating case, because he was clearly such adept and gifted musician, but what I've heard of his songwriting leaves me utterly cold.

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I think for today's standard a Hans Zimmer surpasses your McCartney's and other pop moguls. Still not sure if he's a Mozart though.

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Another vote for Jacob Collier. In every respect he is astonishing: aural skills, creativity, improvisation, chops, groove & timing... oh mayyyn

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4 hours ago, IainS said:

Brian Wilson's got to be up there somewhere. 

Yup, forgot about Brian - good call.

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The trouble with this conversation is that there are many different talented people around and their talent takes many forms, so you are often left comparing apples with oranges! So how do you compare a prodigy like Mozart with a highly schooled, incredibly gifted, all-encompassing journeyman like Bach – yet alone individuals from the modern age / popular music??

For me, I reckon that John Lennon was a zeitgeist of an extraordinary era with a talent that could have come out in many ways, just that it happened to be in popular music. Whereas McCartney merely happened to be a decent songwriter who came to notice working with him. A similar thing to Lennon could arguably be said about Bowie a few years later. But again, you have guitar players like Eddie Van Halen and Stevie Ray Vaughan, whose playing left a lasting impression on everyone who saw them long before they were famous (SRV’s drummer, Chris Layton, once said that no one ever damned him with faint praise and said that he was a ‘good’ guitar player – everyone who saw him thought that he was extraordinary). There are also guys like Prince who can do just about everything incredibly well.

We are only look at people who are relatively famous and I have just mentioned a few guys who operated in genres that I am familiar with (I’m not even going to start looking at jazz or modern classical music). There have always been lots of incredibly talented people with very different types of talent, but I don’t think that you can begin to compare them unless they pretty similar in the first place, and even then…

Edited by peteb
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The problem I have with Bowie is which Bowie do we include? Pre or Post Cocaine abuser??

Most agree that "Low" or "Scary Monsters" was the last of the "great" (note the inverted commas) albums - everything after this would probably been ignored if it didn't have his name on it. Remember how dire Tin Machine was? Let's Dance was just horrendous...what he and Jagger did to "Dancin' in the streets" was close to criminal.

IMO he was only better than poor when he was heavily using drugs...

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Thanks guys and gals, the whole post was just a bit of a giggle, it’s an impossible question, loved your responses tho, ,before our time, during, and in the future, can be assured musical talent will endure, for Christ’s sake ( if there is one btw) please help nuture it,,I’ve had an amazing adventure in music,, for me personally,,,it’s made me have a good think about it,,anyone who can pick up an instrument, write a great song, make someone think, is an artist, total respect for that

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10 hours ago, Toddy17 said:

the whole post was just a bit of a giggle

Oh. Didn't notice that. :$ In that case: Paul McCartney! :D

 

10 hours ago, Toddy17 said:

it’s an impossible question

Aye, but as long as it's just a giggle, I have a hard time understanding how it could be interesting. We'd basically name any of the well-known artists that clearly have one form of talent, and that's it. The moment we do try to answer the impossible question however, it becomes interesting right away. I don't have the answer or any answer, BTW; but I do have a story that proves it's not me:

Through the years, I've been in discussion with several of my composition teachers, where the pattern was that they were negative towards popular music whilst I talked warmly about it. One day I used the argument over all arguments (or so I thought), when stating:

"Listen, I've loved your music since I was a kid. I must be very musical, so give me some credit when I say that there's a lot of value in at least parts of popular music."

He simply stated:

"I'm more musical than you."

xD :$ :D

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Really strange the way that Prince is constantly regarded as some sort of paragon of musical virtue  (or musical competence) when there about a billion composers and musicians one could choose instead. 

I was once in a green room talking to a researcher about Dionne Warwick (because she was scheduled to appear on the show the following week) and what a great musician she was, etc. The guy immediately asked in all seriousness (without the faintest trace of a smile or hint of irony) "is she as good as Prince?". It was like a weird stock response to the idea of musicianship or something. I just looked at him like he was complete feckin idiot -which he most certainly was.

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6 hours ago, cheddatom said:

I wonder if anyone will be listening to Prince or Bowie in 500 years time?

Not on this planet, it will most probably be wasted by then.

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Guest bassman7755
On 01/12/2017 at 10:39, dyerseve said:

essentially, never confuse popularity or success  with talent. Just look at U2, Spice Girls, Britney Spears, One Direction etc. I rest my case

Since musical talent is not objectively measurable, the only universal gauge of talent we have is popularity. Popularity is the only reason we remember certain classical composers and not others. All those mentioned had talent somewhere in the pipeline even if not in the public facing performer themselves.

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56 minutes ago, bassman7755 said:

Since musical talent is not objectively measurable, the only universal gauge of talent we have is popularity....

I can't say I'm convinced by this, I'm afraid. I'd suggest that popularity is a universal gauge of popularity, and that's all (not necessarily a Bad Thing, but not a reflection of talent, nor anything else...). I'm not sure that Bach's popularity, either  in his day or the present, changes anything concerning his talent. True, talent has no objective yardstick that I'm aware of, but why does one need objectivity, anyway..? 9_9

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9 hours ago, bassman7755 said:

Since musical talent is not objectively measurable, the only universal gauge of talent we have is popularity. Popularity is the only reason we remember certain classical composers and not others. All those mentioned had talent somewhere in the pipeline even if not in the public facing performer themselves.

In which case, Van Gogh became more talented after he was dead. Popularity has never been any indicator of talent - you only have to listen to One Direction to prove it.

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On 12/5/2017 at 00:24, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

"Everything after Scary Monsters would probably have been ignored if it didn't have his name on it?" I want to disagree, but I can't really as it's impossible to know. I think the suggestion is that perhaps the post SM albums are not of the quality one would associate with an artist of the calibre of Bowie and that I think I can challenge. Heathen is a quality album and Earthling and Reality are right up there with it. IMHO of course.

 

The breadth and depth of Bowie's output must put him up there somewhere. He morphed into so many different things, before anyone could get bored with the current incarnation. As a songwriter  he pushed his own boundaries constantly.  I would have been more than happy to come up with just the Spiders project. :$

Edited by mikel
spelling mistakes

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A quick gander on Wiki to check out DB's album sales I'm surprised just two of his albums went platinum in the US,  Let's Dance and Tonight and even in the UK he never went multi platinum except 2 x for Rise and Fall of... Says to me he had a large fanbase rather than  mass appeal

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Really good thread but impossible to say a single name. It has to be someone popular as Im not on it.

Strangely enough Prince does come to the thought process quite early, McCartney, Lennon ( in that order ), Miles Davis, Monk. Its all in the ears of the listener- initially I thought Monk couldnt play, but that was a long time ago. Now listening to him, he was so good I could forgive myself for thinking what I did. Seems if you are that good you go full circle.

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