Do you think the thickness of a bass neck affects tone? How?

[Thunderpaws]

More girth = less movement
More girth = more mass

Both must surely affect the way vibrations vibrate.

That and the one million other permutations and combinations that surely affect tone, like air density.

[SpondonBassed]

Methinks the old saying "Never mind the quality, feel the width" can be applied outside of the rag trade too. Jaco was supposed to have been able to hear a tonal difference in strings that were of different colours.

Who am I to argue?

[project_c]

I think thickness and spacing has an effect on how you play in terms of speed and dynamics, which will have an impact on how you sound.

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473773488' post='3132997']
Genuine question (maybe slightly on & off topic!)... Ive worked in music retail for a few years now and I can hear the difference between wood types used, body shapes and how they change resonance and other elements discussed with an acoustic guitar, a violin, a double bass etc. One of the guys I work with can hear the type of pick that's been used if we blind test him! So I understand that these factors are important for projection of an acoustic instrument's tonal character.

However, I'm really struggling to see how any of those tonal factors can be picked up by a magnetic pickup? Surely it's actually not possible without using a microphone that has the technology to translate actual waveforms into an electrical signal? I can understand the sustain maybe would be picked up as the quality of the instrument would increase sustain which would be carried through to the amplifier but I can't see how any of the other factors could affect it. I was under the impression that the strings interrupt the magnetic field of the pickup and create the signal? So surely the characteristics of an alder body would not interrupt the magnetic field at all, let alone in a different manner to a walnut body or a mahogany body?
[/quote]
You guys need to get out more😀

[Conan]

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1473792928' post='3133205']
I had the neck on my Sadowsky reshaped by Roger Sadowsky. He reckoned it would not affect the tone. No surprise that he was right
[/quote]

Depending on how much wood was removed (assuming he didn't add any...!), then i think this is the answer right here. All other potential variables kept constant, and no discernable change to the tone.

A couple of years ago I swapped the necks over on an MIM standard Jazz and a CIJ Geddy Lee. No difference at all (to my ears).

Besides, didn't Geddy's original 1972 Jazz have its neck "shaved down" to a slimmer profile? I don't recall him ever saying that this made the tone thinner in away way...

I voted "I don't know" - as there seems to be enough anecdotal evidence that some people can hear a difference. Although how much of that is down to the power of suggestion, I wouldn't like to say

Edited September 14, 2016 by Conan

[FuNkShUi]

I've had a neck reshaped in the past.
Got it back and it sounded exactly the same.
Now i would maybe buy into it that the thickness/wood of the body would effect the tone......

[HowieBass]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1473834676' post='3133395']
Besides, didn't Geddy's original 1972 Jazz have its neck "shaved down" to a slimmer profile? I don't recall him ever saying that this made the tone thinner in away way...
[/quote]

A thinner neck doesn't necessarily suggest you'd exfect/fear a thinner tone, any more than a thicker neck would create a thicker tone - it's all about how the neck vibrates and how it couples with any of the vibrational modes of the strings. Dead spots are extreme examples of how a resonance in the neck robs energy from a vibrating string (I assume it's mainly the fundamental note it couples with). If the neck and body couple with some of the higher partials (harmonics) then they'll be less prominent and this is how I imagine tone is affected.

[Conan]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1473838022' post='3133415']
A thinner neck doesn't necessarily suggest you'd exfect/fear a thinner tone, any more than a thicker neck would create a thicker tone -
[/quote]

Isn't that what this thread is about? Some people clearly think that this is the case...

Edited September 14, 2016 by Conan

[HowieBass]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1473838253' post='3133416']
Isn't that what this thread is about?
[/quote]

It is but the assumption was made that a thinner neck means thinner tone and thicker neck means thicker tone; it might well be that thinner neck means a thicker tone and a thicker neck means a thinner tone - as I said earlier it's how the instrument body (neck included) couples with the vibrating strings that determines which partials decay faster. You could have a neck made of a very light wood and a neck made with very dense wood, both with the same profile (thickness) and I'd expect them to have different resonant modes. That's why when you put strengthening rods inside a neck you can eliminate dead spots but you certainly haven't changed its thickness.

[xgsjx]

How do non wood necks fall in to the debate, such as carbon fibre?

My Ibby has a thin wooden neck (they're known for having very thin necks). One thing that it doesn't lack, is low end & I've tried many basses in my time. So unless Ibanez have managed some special magic, I declare shenanigans.

[BigRedX]

I voted "Don't Know"

However the answer is most likely yes, but the effect is almost impossible to quantify and therefore irrelevant.

I have owned lots of basses with different neck thicknesses and they all sounded different. However they were all made out of different types of wood of different ages and some weren't even made out of wood. Construction was different from one bass to the next, pickups and electronics were different hardware was different - even the strings used on the various basses were different! Give this multitude of variables it's unsurprising that they all sounded different. However with only a couple of exceptions when I played them I could get a decent sound out of all of them that worked equally well in a band context.

Therefore for me the only concern with the neck thickness is comfort and playability.

Until someone manages to find the time and funds to do a proper scientific study into all the different effects of materials and construction and how they effect the sound of a solid electric instrument, I'll declared the anecdotal "evidence" being trotted out in this threads and others like it as irrelevant bullshit.

In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy playing the instruments that I find aesthetically pleasing, comfortable to play and that in my hands can make the sounds I want when I play with my band, and not worry about details that have yet to be quantified in any meaningful manner.

Edited September 14, 2016 by BigRedX

[Highfox]

I voted yes, there might be a very slight difference, but I think there is a difference. It affects feel and playability of course and maybe that also translates into how we (me) preceive there to also be a different sound. Don't know, but do know that every bass I have ever owned has sounded slightly different (to me) and even that includes 8 Precisions

[neepheid]

Can we have an "I don't care" option instead?

[Bassassin]

Have not read through the entire thread yet but no. Tone is affected by pickups, electronics, strings and technique.

Oh, and wishful thinking.

[Conan]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1473846542' post='3133500']
Can we have an "I don't care" option instead?
[/quote]

Yet you have posted TWICE in the thread! That's a new level of apathy...

[Davo-London]

I'm with Highfox. It affects how I play and therefore it affects the tone regardless of any tone-wood arguments.

Davo

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1473773488' post='3132997']
However, I'm really struggling to see how any of those tonal factors can be picked up by a magnetic pickup? Surely it's actually not possible without using a microphone that has the technology to translate actual waveforms into an electrical signal?
[/quote]

Firstly the pickups are not completely isolated from the body so the body (and therefore neck) resonance will be part of the sound. sencondly resonances from the body and neck will be transmitted along the string - weve all done the 2 cans and a bit of string thing as kids right ? - a wire under tension will act as a transmission conduit for any vibration in the things it is attached to, its also the same principal spring reverbs use.

EDIT - theres also another mechanism at work, the resonances in the body/neck will interact with the harmonics in the string vibration, damping some and reinforcing others, in a similar way to how a driver and port interact in a cab.

Edited September 14, 2016 by bassman7755

[stingrayPete1977]

I use a magnetic pickup on my double bass, I was told it would just sound like a fretless P bass, it doesn't.

A good example I came up with is to think what a big old Gretch guitar from the 50s sounds like, you can still hear the hollow body compared to say a telecaster.

[zero9]

Yes, if the different size necks are made of identical materials with identical properties, thus resulting in a different stiffness.

Will you be able to hear the difference - unlikely.

It's like asking if tone is affected by me wearing trousers or shorts - probably

[chris_b]

Minute differences can be heard in the best studios and by those with good ears. On a stage? Not so much.

I would guess most of those differences wouldn't be relevant to any of us here.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1473848738' post='3133517']
Yet you have posted TWICE in the thread! That's a new level of apathy...
[/quote]

Have a third post - I may not have any strong feelings about the question in the poll, but I've always got time for you

[BigRedX]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1473857361' post='3133598']
Minute differences can be heard in the best studios and by those with good ears. On a stage? Not so much.

I would guess most of those differences wouldn't be relevant to any of us here.
[/quote]

But how can you tell that those differences are down to the thickness of the neck and not to the multitude of other variables that exit between two instruments (ignoring the fact that 2 instruments is a far too tiny sample to have any real relevance)?

Even if you used a single instrument and a second neck, how do you know the differences aren't cause simply by the fact that you have removed the neck and then refitted the neck? Or that the strings haven't become aligned differently or damaged during the neck replacement process? You'd need to remove and replace the same neck a couple of hundred times first and see what effect that had on the sound of the instrument before looking at what effect the alternative neck had on the sound and even then because it is most likely made out of wood and EVERY PIECE OF WOOD IS DIFFERENT, you still won't know exactly what effect the thickness of the neck actually has.

Edited September 14, 2016 by BigRedX

[TrevorR]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1473857906' post='3133607']


But how can you tell that those differences are down to the thickness of the neck and not to the multitude of other variables that exit between two instruments (ignoring the fact that 2 instruments is a far too tiny sample to have any real relevance)?

...and EVERY PIECE OF WOOD IS DIFFERENT, you still won't know exactly what effect the thickness of the neck actually has.
[/quote]

That is the kicker here... The original question was in two parts... DOES it make a difference and HOW does it make a difference. If you look at my post you'll see that I'm firmly in a Yes It Does camp - with a bit of physics to back up that reasoning. However, the second question is much more complex. A bass is a complex system and so many things will have an effect, sometimes in unpredictable ways. Just taking neck thickness, there is nothing to say that the effect is linear - Fatter neck = fatter tone. There is no reason why a fatter neck (presuming you could get theoretically comparable necks) shouldn't create resonances that cancel out lower and lower mid frequencies. Resonances are strange things.

And then there are all the other factors that also affect vibration... String seating at the nut and bridge, neck alignment and how it is seated in the neck pocket, differences in the cellular structure of different pieces of wood etc etc etc... You can conceive of an experiment to test this where a bass is rigidly mounted in a jig and tested repeatedly while mass is sequentially shaved off the neck. But there is no reason to believe that the resultant effect on the overall frequency response of the output would be linear. In fact it's much more likely that different frequencies would increase and decrease at different rates as the complex vibrational reflections and resonances caused the equivalent of diffusion fringes within the bass.

The answer to the first half of the question is relatively straightforward, the second half very complex.

Edited September 14, 2016 by TrevorR

[Grangur]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1473857361' post='3133598']
Minute differences can be heard in the best studios and by those with good ears. On a stage? Not so much.

I would guess most of those differences wouldn't be relevant to any of us here.
[/quote]

You probably have hit the most important point here. At low volume, with no effects. I hear a difference between basses with different necks, but with the same strings, setup & pups.

In a band situation, in the mix - I would hear no difference.

[bassbiscuits]

I think the neck thickness has an impact on the tone - basses i've had with big thick necks sound really loud, bassy and fuller than the ones with slimmer necks.

Not better or worse, just different.

I know comparing a handful of basses without looking at all the other variables such as pickups etc is hardly conclusive of a wider trend, but it makes sense that more wood would affect the sound tho, yeah?