Don't bother trying to improve, just make more friends instead

[Guest MoJo]

This may sound like sour grapes and I suppose a bit of it is. An acquaintance of mine, inspired by seeing my old rock covers band, decided to pick up a guitar and put a band together with some of his mates. They've been together a couple of years now and in that time, their playing and their performances haven't improved one bit. The singer doesn't have a bad voice but a lot of the set is outside his range and comfort zone leading to embarrassing 'I shouldn't have gone for it' moments. The rhythm section is very sloppy and three out of the four look like they've been given some really bad news just before they went on stage. That said, three of them are work colleagues and are very popular guys at the factory where they work.

They were recently given a Thursday night 'let's see how you do' gig at a big local music venue. They were as decidedly average as ever.

Now, whenever they play, if it's a Friday/Saturday night or in this case, just before the Easter hols, half the factory turns up for a works 'p*ss up' at the gig. I'd estimate there were between 120 and 150 folks in there last Thursday night. As a result, they've now been offered a support slot to one of the biggest tribute acts in the UK. It has to be purely based on the fact that they filled the venue because it certainly isn't because of their astonishing playing or performance.

So I urge you all to stop practising those arpeggios and get out there and make more friends instead. You'll get more gigs as a result.....guaranteed

Sour grape rant over

[Musky]

Irritating perhaps, but it's bums on seats that count.*

On the plus side, unless their friends actually like the band, they're unlikely to continue turning up for gigs.

Edit: *For the promoter anyway.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Musky

[Lozz196]

Ultimately, and annoying though it is, venues look at two main things, does the band bring lots of thirsty people, and do those thirsty people like a fight.

If the answers are yes and no, the band is booked.

[charic]

Yep, the people putting on a gig very rarely actually give a crap about what music is on. It's just about money. If the venue is making money easily hand over fist then they get to pick and choose. Otherwise it's whatever brings in the cash.

[ezbass]

Yes I'm afraid it's the 'Music Business' with emphasis on the business. I feel the OP's pain, I've depped with bands who get loads of gigs despite not being what I would deem up to par. I can't bring myself to play with them any more and find excuses to pass on the deps. I'm not much of a businessman it seems.

[BigRedX]

While having lots of friends at your gigs is good to get your foot in the door with venues, the thing that sustains a band is the ability to build an audience that haven't just come to see them because they are acquaintances or work colleagues. They do this by being being musically* and visually entertaining and by being good at publicising themselves.

Your acquaintance's band might be doing all right now in terms of getting gigs, but if they are really are bad as you make out they won't last long once they find themselves playing to an audience that isn't mostly made up of their friends.

*Musically entertain means having great songs not necessarily having great chops.

[Nibody]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1334132101' post='1611191']
While having lots of friends at your gigs is good to get your foot in the door with venues, the thing that sustains a band is the ability to build an audience that haven't just come to see them because they are acquaintances or work colleagues. They do this by being being musically* and visually entertaining and by being good at publicising themselves.

Your acquaintance's band might be doing all right now in terms of getting gigs, but if they are really are bad as you make out they won't last long once they find themselves playing to an audience that isn't mostly made up of their friends.

*Musically entertain means having great songs not necessarily having great chops.
[/quote]

This is a problem my Guitarist mate had. His band Jericho were actually (For a "Numetal/Screamo" type band - not muy cup of tea) very good - good musicians, some reasonable tunes. They got to do some pretty big gigs around the country because they were bringing a crowd (They did build a bit of a following but a sizeable portion of their crowd were mates). They were getting to the low level support slot stage, where its "You sell 250 tickets" but as he said, mates will only sustain paying to see you play and travelling to do it for a set time.

[Doctor J]

Wait, did you actually think it was about the music?

[Monckyman]

Oasis.
nuff said

[thisnameistaken]

Or if you can't make friends, play songs like Mustang Sally.

[Bilbo]

Its the 'big fish in a small pond' mentality and a short term vs. long term strategy. A band that pulls only its mates can have an immediate appeal but its time will be limited and its earning potential short term. If you are going to build up a venue over time, you will want to ensure that your audience returns week after week and the only way to do that is to quality control your acts. Poor bands every week will only keep the audience in place for a short time. We see it a lot with Jazz. Venues put on singer/pianist duos and call it Jazz but it often isn't or is really poor so jazz fans don't come because they have higher expectations. So the venue folds.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1334133748' post='1611220']
Or if you can't make friends, play songs like Mustang Sally.
[/quote]

[gafbass02]

A biggie I've come across is the being in a good band, with good musicians, writing and playing good songs etc. But falling foul of jealousy and cliquey scenes. Does my head in that one.

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1334133655' post='1611218']
Oasis.
nuff said
[/quote]

They had some very good songs, and going off what I read in Tony McCarroll's book, they worked really hard travelling around the country and building up a following for five years before they were signed by Creation.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1334125631' post='1611113']
This may sound like sour grapes and I suppose a bit of it is. An acquaintance of mine, inspired by seeing my old rock covers band, decided to pick up a guitar and put a band together with some of his mates. They've been together a couple of years now and in that time, their playing and their performances haven't improved one bit. The singer doesn't have a bad voice but a lot of the set is outside his range and comfort zone leading to embarrassing 'I shouldn't have gone for it' moments. The rhythm section is very sloppy and three out of the four look like they've been given some really bad news just before they went on stage. That said, three of them are work colleagues and are very popular guys at the factory where they work.

They were recently given a Thursday night 'let's see how you do' gig at a big local music venue. They were as decidedly average as ever.

Now, whenever they play, if it's a Friday/Saturday night or in this case, just before the Easter hols, half the factory turns up for a works 'p*ss up' at the gig. I'd estimate there were between 120 and 150 folks in there last Thursday night. As a result, they've now been offered a support slot to one of the biggest tribute acts in the UK. It has to be purely based on the fact that they filled the venue because it certainly isn't because of their astonishing playing or performance.

So I urge you all to stop practising those arpeggios and get out there and make more friends instead. You'll get more gigs as a result.....guaranteed

Sour grape rant over
[/quote]

the answer as often does, lies in following the money trail

the key to their popularity is two-fold - mates turn up to support (although many would argue that true friends would tell you to your face not to give up the day job) and the venues like them because all those extra punters they bring equals shedloads of beer tokens fyling at them across the bar

in a twisted sort of way at an amateur entertainment level you 'could' argue that they are indeed reasonably successful but that might be a bit like saying that simon cowell is a well meaning philanthropist

[JTUK]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1334125631' post='1611113']
This may sound like sour grapes and I suppose a bit of it is. An acquaintance of mine, inspired by seeing my old rock covers band, decided to pick up a guitar and put a band together with some of his mates. They've been together a couple of years now and in that time, their playing and their performances haven't improved one bit. The singer doesn't have a bad voice but a lot of the set is outside his range and comfort zone leading to embarrassing 'I shouldn't have gone for it' moments. The rhythm section is very sloppy and three out of the four look like they've been given some really bad news just before they went on stage. That said, three of them are work colleagues and are very popular guys at the factory where they work.

They were recently given a Thursday night 'let's see how you do' gig at a big local music venue. They were as decidedly average as ever.

Now, whenever they play, if it's a Friday/Saturday night or in this case, just before the Easter hols, half the factory turns up for a works 'p*ss up' at the gig. I'd estimate there were between 120 and 150 folks in there last Thursday night. As a result, they've now been offered a support slot to one of the biggest tribute acts in the UK. It has to be purely based on the fact that they filled the venue because it certainly isn't because of their astonishing playing or performance.

So I urge you all to stop practising those arpeggios and get out there and make more friends instead. You'll get more gigs as a result.....guaranteed

Sour grape rant over
[/quote]

Well, selling tickets or a pub out is very good news for the promoters and at the end of the day, thatis the bottom line.

Frustrating but a lot of things work on popularity rather than expertise.

There are a few bands round here who can FB the world for gigs but most realise where they are in the food chain, as it were...
There can be exceptions though... two of the very biggest draws here are outright crap and the other is average at best...and the former think they are GREAT

Funny, I know.. but there you go.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1334136697' post='1611286']

Frustrating but a lot of things work on popularity rather than expertise.
[/quote]

you see ! ... back to mr cowell again

[WHUFC BASS]

Hasn't this always been the way with music though ? Take for example this lot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant_Pigeon

One number one single, one single at 17 in the charts. One of their mum's used to play piano and they practiced in their front room.

Talent doesn't come in to it mate. Its all subjective.

[TimR]

It's all about entertainment. You'll never get many gigs if you are a bunch of virtuoso shoe gazers.

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't work on your music but there becomes a point of diminishing returns where the music is 'good enough' and you have to work on your stage presence and attitude. But some people are natural at that, especially in front of their mates.

Wait see how they perform in front of a strange audience.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1334151083' post='1611636'] It's all about entertainment. You'll never get many gigs if you are a bunch of virtuoso shoe gazers. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't work on your music but there becomes a point of diminishing returns where the music is 'good enough' and you have to work on your stage presence and attitude. But some people are natural at that, especially in front of their mates. Wait see how they perform in front of a strange audience. [/quote]

Couldn't agree more. Especially the last sentence, if they really are gash then they will know at this support gig as will the promotors. When I played for a hip hop/funk soul band we had many many excellent words and support from radio DJ's, even Craig Charles took a liking to our single and sang along to it on national radio! But we couldn't get a gig for love nor money because we weren't the shoe gazery indie hair cut lot that got crowds through the door.



Dan

[Chaos Daveo]

Play for you and enjoy yourself, sod all else matters..

(Steps off soapbox)

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1334135552' post='1611253']
Its the 'big fish in a small pond' mentality and a short term vs. long term strategy. A band that pulls only its mates can have an immediate appeal but its time will be limited and its earning potential short term. If you are going to build up a venue over time, you will want to ensure that your audience returns week after week and the only way to do that is to quality control your acts. Poor bands every week will only keep the audience in place for a short time. We see it a lot with Jazz. Venues put on singer/pianist duos and call it Jazz but it often isn't or is really poor so jazz fans don't come because they have higher expectations. So the venue folds.
[/quote]

Like Marillion?

[Wooks79]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1334153316' post='1611687']

we couldn't get a gig for love nor money because we weren't the shoe gazery indie hair cut lot that got crowds through the door.

[/quote]

This about sums my band up, we struggle to get out of Manchester gigs sometimes, we don't look cool, and we aren't in with hipsters.

On the flip side of that, I knew a band who made it into the NME purely on haircuts and hype before they even recorded anything!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1334136697' post='1611286']
Frustrating but a lot of things work on popularity rather than expertise.
[/quote]

Almost everything, in fact. And in a business where the end product is entirely subjective then popularity is THE definition of what's good and what's not good.

It seems very odd to criticise a band for being decidedly average even though they are clearly more popular (for whatever reason) and therefore more entertaining than a band of so-called expert players with 'great' songs but which can't get an audience outside their immediate friends and family.

It's all a bit like that philosophical conundrum - if a tree falls in a forest and no one is there, does it make a noise? If the 'best' song in the world played by the 'best' musicians in the world never leaves the bedroom, what's the point?

[JTUK]

hmmm..maybe...
But music is also about excellence and there may be a few ways you can equate that but being popular with mates who will turn out is ok...only up to a point tho..IMV.
The bands I am thinking about will have to be very careful about who or if they share a bill as that is where things will get pretty tricky for them... but in the case of one of those bands, I don't think they realise how out of their depth they are. The other band does have a very charistmatic frontman...and I make the distinction between that and singer/vocalist

I must admit to being impressed about bands who can fill a venue but it also depends how they set about that...do they just play a very populist set and therefore are popular for that..or do they do their thing very well, have built up a following and are therefore getting there on their own merits...?? I know which way I prefer.

But hey, we play pubs and clubs, so who cares..?

I like to do these things to the best of my ability and I expect others in the band to do the same, but then we do it for us first and foremost. Some audiences can do with a little bit of educating

I do admire bands who can fill venues but at the same time, I reserve the right to think some might be godamn
awful at playing once they get there

Edited April 11, 2012 by JTUK