la bam Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hi all, Just a weird one from last weekends gig. We were in a large Nightclub that was hired for a big birthday party bash. There was a big stage, dancefloor etc, a proper nightclub. We put the full rig in - tops, subs etc and got a really good sound with laptop music as we were DJing as well, so everything was set correct. What I did discover when doing the soundcheck for the band was that the bass was completely lost - really dull and blurry, despite being nice at other gigs. In the end to get a real nice complimentary bass tone for the band, I had to go so trebly it was almost Entwistle distortion-esque - and I usually play a 60s style warm motown sound. The tone was warm when mixed with the rest of the band through the PA whilst in the crowd, but horrible close up! Just wondered who ever changes their tone, during a sound check, depending on venue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'd always expect to adjust the tone for the room I was in. Maybe not much, but I always start from controls set flat anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRBboy Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Yes, definitely I would say. Had a similar experience on new years eve. The pub had a suspended timber floor, wooden walls, wooden everthing, and my bass was just booming through the whole place. Like you, I had to go for a far more trebley, cutting sound than I would normally use, but it worked perfectly and sat in the mix really well. Usually though, I don't find that I need to alter my sound much for most venues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender73 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I generally start with a flat eq and work it out from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Usually only have to change mine for wooden suspended stages. Stays where it's normally set if I'm on solid ground. Then, the only changes that are made are to keep up with guitarists and over enthusiastic drummers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My tone is pretty much set in stone, but normally have to tweak the VLF or VPE on my MarkBass Amp to cater for the room acoustics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I tend to use a pretty deep sound anyway to allow more room for everything else happening on top. Quite often I'm part of the 'everything else' too because I mess about with pedals way too much, but I always have a deep sound going on in parallel too. Those full-range bass sounds you hear at clinics and on bass solo videos are all very well for clinics and bass solo videos, but they just get lost live unless you're mixed way up or the band leaves you lots and lots of room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlonBass Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I use my Wireless rig for exactly this reason. I'm usually the one that stands out the front during souncheck, to make sure the audience hears "our" sound. I've been surprised at how awful it can sound on stage sometimes, but compliments afterwards seem to back up this method of doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Only on the basses..which have a LOT of variation anyway..very rarely need to touch the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [size=4]Occasionally I'll tweak the bass control on the instrument and I might alter the master volume on the amp but I usually don't alter anything else from one year to the next.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Always - venue acoustics vary hugely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Exactly the same thing happened to me at a venue, so now, what I`ve found is that if I get a sound that I find "scratchy" and "grating" on it`s own, it works exactly where it needs to be in the mix. Funny old game, this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemonCello Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ha, this is a topic all on it's own. Acoustics is a bit of a science and I don't pretend to be an expert. Nightclub says to me low ceilings and lots of carpet, soft furnishings which all adds up to 'sponge'. I do the same thing as Big Al above in that I use my wireless to get out front and try and hear the sound from the audience POV. Unfortunately, that doesn't always work as the acoustics will be very different if your lucky enough to get a full house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 A sound that works at home might just about work in a practise studio, but transfer that to a larger venue which wasn't designed with music playback in mind (a pub, wedding marquee etc) and if you're stubborn enough not to change your tone then you may very well not be heard at all. I don't have 'my tone', I make myself and my gear adaptable enough for most situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't tend to need to do it much, I do wonder whether it's because I tend toward a middy/top sound rather than deep bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 When soundchecking in an empty room I always try to make the overall sound a bit trebly as when the punters come in they will soak up the higher frequencies letting the bass breathe. Amazing how it changes ( for our benefit though )!! However I really dont change my individual tone too much, just the level. Using a gramma pad helps too, especially on wooden stages. Previous post is correct- that great overall scooped tone doesnt work in a band environment- its all about low mids- think frowny EQ- not smiley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Same here - I love a slightly mid scooped EQ when I'm noodling at home, but I have to change that to boost the mids when playing in a band context. Doing this makes sure that the only sad face on the stage is on the amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 When the band is going full tilt... if I can hear what I do, so can everyone else.. I know this because the gtr might give me a nod when he hears it... so I EQ for me, and it works all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I always use mids to cut through if I need to. A lot of it for me is technique. Some songs sound glorious plucked fingerstyle near the neck, but 75% of the time im biting through playing at the bridge pup with a fairly aggressive technique. Bring in a plectrum for the stompy anthems and its yet another 'tone' feeling. Mids do it all for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 9/10 I will always have to tweak my EQ settings or compressors a little bit to accommodate the distance from me to the amp, how far the amp is from a wall, venue acoustics, stage size, indoor/outdoor environment, monitoring quality or even the other band members preference. Nothing drastic...usually a tweak of the mid's and being a bit more frugal with the compressors. That's why a lot of front of house engineers insist on receiving a pre-EQ DI signal as apposed to a post-EQ signal is because the backline tone you have onstage will sound pants through the desk. By all means, have a perky scooped tone if you want it, but it doesn't mean that it will sound great through the PA. You would hope that the sound engineer knows what he is doing and trust that he will sculpt a representative bass tone that sits in the mix nicely. As long as you are happy and the engineer is happy then job done, but more than often you will have to compromise. Stage acoustics work very differently to room acoustics. Sometimes it's not the tone I would prefer to hear, but it's terribly difficult to replicate the same tone you have at home, rehearsal room or studio. It's how it works unfortunately and more than often you will have to suck it up and get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yep, have to twiddle around for every room. I've found out that if the bass sounds a bit overdriven, and buzzy and horrid on it's own. Then once the band kick in it works perfectly in the mix. Which is fine until we get to a song where it's my intro... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1326402027' post='1496877'] My tone is pretty much set in stone, but normally have to tweak the VLF or VPE on my MarkBass Amp to cater for the room acoustics. [/quote] ^ this although i would add that there are a couple of gigs that need me to fiddle with the EQ, knocking a bit of bass off to stop boominess. I know which venues though and am now prepared. I don't think its weird at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigster Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Don't know if this has been in thread yet - a lot of the gigs we play goes through a band PA, we rarely use a naked backline so to speak. So, I set my sound on stage, and it sounds how I want it to, but I always wonder how that translates to what the sound guy does with it all out front. I suppose what I'm saying is, if I set my amp to what I think the room needs, ie. more top/middy etc, as people have outlined above, when my amp gets DI'd, does what the sound guy sets at his desk just wipe out any choices/settings I've made with my on stage sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Jigster' timestamp='1326460462' post='1497478'] Don't know if this has been in thread yet - a lot of the gigs we play goes through a band PA, we rarely use a naked backline so to speak. So, I set my sound on stage, and it sounds how I want it to, but I always wonder how that translates to what the sound guy does with it all out front. I suppose what I'm saying is, if I set my amp to what I think the room needs, ie. more top/middy etc, as people have outlined above, when my amp gets DI'd, does what the sound guy sets at his desk just wipe out any choices/settings I've made with my on stage sound? [/quote] As a former sound guy in venues doing 4 or 5 bands a night sometimes I can say that in most cases you'll get whatever sound the sound guy gives ya. The settings on your amp work with your cab in the room, but the PA is a different cab and so your settings will usually not be useful to FOH. Also, the sound guy should know the room and will EQ all the instruments to get the best out of the equipment and the room and make the show sound good. Your own personal bass sound is somewher on page 2 or 3 of priorities in this situation, however don't despair because the truth is that most of 'your' sound comes from how you play, not the amp, cab, bass etc. you use. Thats why when I did the 6 band marathon nights, I'd set everything up first with the headline act eq wise then adjust volume levels for each act - the job of an in house PA in sound reinforcement, so any eq etc. really should be just to get rid of unwanted frequencies (room resonances, badly tuned drums etc.) If you have your own engineer this is different, they will know your songs, and can add effects, level boosts eq etc. on a song by song basis (e.g. big vocal delay on the start of One Step Beyond, Slap bass - boost treble for lessons in love) I do the PA for our covers band, vocals and sax only (occasionally the kick drum) go through it so the backline is naked. At each soundcheck the guitar keyboard and bass amps are all tweaked to suit the room (essentially doing he job of the sound man, minus the PA) and the PA is tweaked to ring out the frequencies which are most likely to feedback - usually the resonances of the room or harmonics therof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigster Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hi Brensabre, that's REALLY useful feedback thanks!! Most worrying bit is [i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]most of 'your' sound comes from how you play, not the amp, cab, bass etc. you use. [/font][/color][/i][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/i][i][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][/i] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I'll get one's obligatory coat.[/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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