My frends really awful band - advice needed

[tauzero]

Say you were washing your hair and it couldn't have been you at the gig. Maybe you have a doppelganger.

 

Alternatively, talk to the singer and ask if you could still be friends if you were critical of the band. What you do then depends on the answer.

[Sean]

1 hour ago, Misdee said:

I'd be honest and tell them what I really thought from the get-go, in a discreet but frank and honest way. Your friend might well respect you more for doing so. Unless your friend is particularly vulnerable or overly sensitive then I don't think telling the truth is wrong in this instance.

 

38 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

The bit that intrigues me is your comment that your friend is a good singer. It sounds that he is demotivated and may be asking for your opinion to confirm his own. Have you asked him what he thinks? 

 

It's difficult. If someone asks your opinion, it's disrespectful to be dishonest. That doesn't mean you have to be unpleasant about it, but criticism (in its literal sense) is always helpful. That is equally true when it's not entirely positive. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TimR said:

 

I don't think that's easy, but probably wise.

 

Did people leave because it was poor, or because it was too loud, or because they didn't like the music?

 

We are getting the hang of the football crowd leaving as soon as the drummer starts winding his kit up. Now that the football is on at 5:30pm there are still a lot of fans hanging around the pub when we arrive. Then the music people arrive later on, a few of the football crowd hang around to hear 2 or 3 songs then quite often just disappear. 

 

People will put up with some truly awful musicianship if they recognise the songs. 

 

If the punters are pinned against the back wall, its too loud, if people are sitting at tables right in front of the band, it's not dancy enough and possibly not loud enough. We clear a dance area as well as clear the 'stage' area. 

All of this can be done as coaching conversations if needed. It's established performance improvement methodology and was developed to keep people motivated. 

 

There are classic examples of alcoholic repeat offenders who were either given negative feedback and punishment (a night in the cells) versus coaching conversations to get them to reflect on their own performance. The results are something like 5% non-offender rate with punishment and negative feedback, 40% non-offender rate with tailored coaching. Because it turns it round and makes them responsible and puts them in control of what's next. They don't go defensive because they're being attacked, they get constructive because their being supported but in a challenging way.

 

[Boodang]

I use a Zoom Q2n to record gigs (4k video and x/y mics).

So, no need to say anything, just 'helpfully' record their next gig and present them with an SD card of their performance and they can make up their own minds.

[Dan Dare]

46 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

The bit that intrigues me is your comment that your friend is a good singer. It sounds that he is demotivated and may be asking for your opinion to confirm his own. Have you asked him what he thinks? 

 

Good advice to ask what the friend himself thinks. We've all been in situations which weren't ideal, but felt, for various reasons, that we should try to make the best of them. It can be difficult to find a band, any band, to play with. Witness the number of posts on here from people struggling to do so. It's not surprising some decide to stick with what they have, even if it's far from perfect.

 

The OP's pal could well be in that position. No matter how good a singer you are, it's difficult to give of your best when surrounded by duffers. He may be looking for an outside perspective, as I suggested.

 

I don't agree with Hellzero (I rarely do). It's all very well patting yourself on the back for your "brutal honesty", but it frequently achieves little.

[leschirons]

Has he actually asked what you think or, are you worried that he might?

 

If he's already asked, how was it left? It's not really clear in the post.

 

I have been in this situation and when my opinion was sought, I said, (laughing) I'd never ask that question in case I got an answer I didn't like.  

 

My friend then expanded a little and explained why he'd asked, he was totally aware that there were problems in his band and was actually looking for confirmation. Then, I could be honest.

 

 

[Woodinblack]

8 hours ago, Sean said:

If you could go back in time and play "Wonderwall" again...

 

 

.. would you use the structure or any of the notes of the original?

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

10 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

.. would you use the structure or any of the notes of the original?

Sounds like the band would do a Les  Dawson alternate version 🙂

Edited yesterday at 07:53 by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE

[Jonesy]

What I'm about to say has already been said, but I'll regurgitate it anyway....

 

What you do depends on how good a mate your friend is and how you think he'd take your critique. When I have non muso mates at gigs and they give their opinion, mostly it's 'yeah, that was great' and I just sweep it under the rug. They're just saying that to be polite or, hopefully, it did sound good and they actually enjoyed it!

 

I have a few mates in bands that I know will give honest feedback and they're the ones I listen to most. We've talked about this and I do the same for them, it really helps to have mates that can hear what needs to be tighter and offer feedback. We even check in with each other mid first song to get an idea of levels etc.

 

Whether the form of feedback is 'that was crap' or 'that could be improved' is down to your friendship, I guess. 

[JapanAxe]

I’m a big fan of the sh!t sandwich. Start with something positive, then deliver the bad news, finish with another positive.

 

But only if you’re asked.

[petebassist]

Unless I was asked for a professional opinion (or my amateur one), I'd just say something like, well I enjoyed it. People usually just want validation.

Your mate's not stupid, and he'd know how the band were doing based on the audience reaction. 

If someone is deluded, they're probably wouldn't take any notice anyway.

 

[12stringbassist]

I'd say 'some things could be improved'.
Get them to film a gig and then watch it.
That usually irons out problems.

Edited 15 hours ago by 12stringbassist

[Hellzero]

On 29/09/2025 at 10:14, JapanAxe said:

I’m a big fan of the sh!t sandwich. Start with something positive, then deliver the bad news, finish with another positive.

 

But only if you’re asked.

I liked your idea, so as it was asked, the shīt sandwich has been delivered, just waiting for its taste in return.

[Sean]

1 hour ago, Hellzero said:

I liked your idea, so as it was asked, the shīt sandwich has been delivered, just waiting for its taste in return.

I spent years getting paid to "untrain" managers from using that technique. 

 

For what it's worth although too late in this case, The "sh1t sandwich" feedback method has several significant disadvantages. One major issue is that it often fails to achieve its intended purpose because of negativity bias; people are more likely to remember and focus on the negative feedback while disregarding the positive comments that frame it, rendering the praise ineffective. This can lead to recipients feeling that the positive feedback is insincere or merely a tactic to soften the blow, which undermines trust and makes the compliments seem fake. As a result, the positive feedback may be dismissed entirely, and the negative feedback may be perceived as more severe than intended.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens. If he's ex-military it might work. 

[chris_b]

Diplomacy is always the best option. All questions like, "Does my bum look big in this!" etc are better left unanswered. IMO there is no good part of a sh!t sandwich. So leave the autopsy for the band.

[Lozz196]

20 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Diplomacy is always the best option. All questions like, "Does my bum look big in this!" etc are better left unanswered. 

I`ve always answered no to that question. 

 

Mainly because the actual answer was "your bum looks big in everything". 

 

Which of course I was far too diplomatic to say.

[steve-bbb]

post this on your social media and tag them

 

hope this helps  

 

[Hellzero]

3 hours ago, Sean said:

I spent years getting paid to "untrain" managers from using that technique. 

 

For what it's worth although too late in this case, The "sh1t sandwich" feedback method has several significant disadvantages. One major issue is that it often fails to achieve its intended purpose because of negativity bias; people are more likely to remember and focus on the negative feedback while disregarding the positive comments that frame it, rendering the praise ineffective. This can lead to recipients feeling that the positive feedback is insincere or merely a tactic to soften the blow, which undermines trust and makes the compliments seem fake. As a result, the positive feedback may be dismissed entirely, and the negative feedback may be perceived as more severe than intended.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens. If he's ex-military it might work. 

The shīt sandwich worked very well, it's been accepted and, especially, assessed as my best mate, who is also a manager, is aware of all these inherent problems in the band.

 

And what I said was pure honesty, so the compliments were real and sincere, which certainly explained why it worked.

 

That said, I've been a medical advisor for years and know how to manage people's susceptibility, but only up to a point where it becomes useless, so sometimes (most of the time for me as I'm a bit fed up by the stupid politically correct period we're living) it's good to say the plain truth even if it hurts.

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I`ve always answered no to that question. 

 

Mainly because the actual answer was "your bum looks big in everything". 

 

Which of course I was far too diplomatic to say.

 

But then when they see photos of themselves, they demand to know why you didn't tell them...

[Uncle Rodney]

Guys, let's move off the "sh!t sandwich" debate, it's not my style anyway.

 

I've had a chat with my singer friend. Did a bit of fancy footwork founded on trust and respect. I suggested that I do not get involved with his existing band with a list of "passive" but truthful reasons and resurrected the idea of setting up a separate band. He seems very pleased with this idea. I came up with a band name which he seemed to like. Now looking for band members...usual nonsense looming. 🙄

 

Thanks for the opinions, quite varied really, some gentle and some brutal. I can take what might work and apply in context Sean's suggestion reminded me of "it's about you not me" which I think works the best in my situation. Gentle souls don't deserve to be kicked, just because the kicker is low on skill. Besides, bands should be fun not a bruising experience, some would say, if it's not fun why do it?

 

A little off topic maybe, I've found if a really caring chap has been though a heavy divorce, lost a child, living with serious long term illness it brings a heavy burden. I don't know if my friend has these (I care not to enquire) but I detect there is something. Be nice, if you can't be nice then f**k off! 😆

Edited 1 hour ago by Uncle Rodney

[BassAdder60]

Some years back I formed a band that had a very mediocre singer and eventually I decided to leave as I knew it was never going to improve 

 

Some years later they are still gigging as a band or acoustic duo and folk seem to love them but she has a terrible voice.

Punters don’t seem to care !