Reggaebass Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 26 minutes ago, Boodang said: £1000 all in and puts an American made fender to shame. Have you had many American made fenders, I’ve had and have got many and imo their quality is very good, £1000 wouldn’t come close to the 62RI jazz I had , I shouldn’t have sold it but I used it to fund a custom built Sandberg which I didn’t gel with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
police squad Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 it is mad. I have bought a new mustang JMJ and thought £1099 for a mexican bass was ridiculous. But I used 9 months interest free credit so it didnt eat all my capital in the bank. I bought my Brian May guitar the same way. Luckily I have no serious gas these days (not for basses anyway. I have exactly what I need now and what I like) There's a hot pink Brian May coming out soon though. Even they are pushing 900 quid now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, tegs07 said: Are the prices of instruments going up or is the purchasing power of currency going down? Yes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 13 hours ago, Cato said: Not mass produced but... https://www.thomann.de/gb/martin_guitars_d_200_deluxe.htm Btw. I'm not totally sure that the price on this isn't a typo. The only new guitar I've ever seen with a comparable price had real diamond fingerboard markers and a mammoth tusk ivory nut. Na The 1st is tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralf1e Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 13 hours ago, TheGreek said: It is if it's on a Spector Absolutely. Love my LX euro 5. But is it really classed as mass produced compared to other brands. The build quality is astonishing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I've got an import Dingwall and more recently an MTD Kingston Super 5, both are Far East made (South Korea and China) but are impeccable and flawless instruments. The quality of a bass I believe is nothing to do with what country it was made but the skills of the staff and how long they are permitted to spend on them. My belief is that there is an overlap of quality between mass produced and USA made stuff, and you have to get the top end import gear to compete with the USA low/mid range, but it will be much cheaper. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Machines said: My belief is that there is an overlap of quality between mass produced and USA made stuff, and you have to get the top end import gear to compete with the USA low/mid range, but it will be much cheaper. Throughout my career I've been involved in buying stuff from all over the world (not musical related). IME made in the USA is absolutely no indication of higher quality. Fender does not offer similar specs for the US and non US production and components so its impossible to compare like for like and I suspect this is deliberate to ensure they can charge a premium for what is essentially non premium product. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoulderpet Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 No, not saying I would never spend more than that but I would be acknowledging mentally that I was being ripped off. The prices are getting crazy now, I mean look at the Fender gold foil jazz bass, 1300.00 for an MIM bass with horrendous quality control problems that offers pretty much nothing that justifies the price, bbot bridge, passive electronics, one pickup, big plastic pickguard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Ralf1e said: Absolutely. Love my LX euro 5. But is it really classed as mass produced compared to other brands. The build quality is astonishing. Of course it is mass produced - maybe not in big quanitities, but there is a pattern and loads are produced the same way. Your LX euro 5 is the same as the next guys one, maybe a different colour, but same things in the same place. Same as Rics, even though not many are made, the concept is the same, you make a series of bodies / necks / electronics, then go down a line putting them together. If a luthier makes an individual instrument, they start with a chunk of wood, shape it, get other bits, put it together, work on it, then finish it off - there aren't a load of people doing separate stages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) How can we say what something is worth. We don't know the running costs of the factory, staff costs, raw materials etc etc. Everything is priced in relation to everything else. If it's too expensive then it won't sell. If a company prices a product then they expect it to sell at that price. All we can say is what our budget is, and what we would pay. Edited March 31, 2023 by chris_b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Downunderwonder said: Yes. OK I will phrase it another way. If the economy was based upon a barter system and a chicken could be swapped for a nugget of gold. Even though the nugget of gold has no practical use it’s pretty rare so has value and is sought after. This works pretty well until the chicken farmer discovers that a gold mine has opened up and is distributing gold nuggets around the town and everyone has them. Does he still want to swap his chicken for a nugget, or does he ask for a bit extra? (Obviously extremely simplistic analogy we could add in the extraction costs of the gold , the fuel required to mine and transport it, the russian dictator, the debt cost required to borrow the gold from the mine to start with and the chicken flu pandemic that limited the supply of chickens and the rising scarcity of chicken feed due to the russian dictator as well as the increasing labour costs for the farmer). Edited March 31, 2023 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Edwards69 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 It depends. Mass produced don't necessarily mean it's largely produced my automated machines. I recall an Anderton's video some time ago. Lee explained that's whilst a CNC machine doesn't know where it is in the world - so a factory knocking out Squier bodies in Indonesia can use the same plans as USA fender, the main contributing factor to cost is the amount of work done by humans. The more work that is done by hand, the higher the cost. They're still mass produced, but using a more human workflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Reggaebass said: Have you had many American made fenders, I’ve had and have got many and imo their quality is very good, £1000 wouldn’t come close to the 62RI jazz I had , I shouldn’t have sold it but I used it to fund a custom built Sandberg which I didn’t gel with By comparison to this a Fender build is just clumsy. Edited March 31, 2023 by Boodang 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I've said this elsewhere.... The UK in particular is reaching insanity with it's pricing. Import Sterlings are now reaching £1500! https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/search/?Query=musicman+bass It is worth considering that only 8 ish years ago you could get a USA Musicman Bongo HH for £1400-1500, a Stingray H for £1200-1400 and a Classic Stingray H for £1500. At some point surely people just WILL NOT be able buy. Fender and Gibson are doing the same. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLowDown Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 For me, no. There are fantastic basses for £300/400, above that and the value for money drops sharply for what I require. Fender know they can produce garbage but people will still want to have "Fender" on the headstock. The market decides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonno1981 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 18 hours ago, Cato said: Not mass produced but... https://www.thomann.de/gb/martin_guitars_d_200_deluxe.htm Btw. I'm not totally sure that the price on this isn't a typo. The only new guitar I've ever seen with a comparable price had real diamond fingerboard markers and a mammoth tusk ivory nut. Free shipping! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 hours ago, tegs07 said: If the economy was based upon a barter system and a chicken could be swapped for a nugget of gold. You're advocating a barter system based on chicken nuggets? 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: You're advocating a barter system based on chicken nuggets? 😂 Indeed. A McEconomy. Edited March 31, 2023 by tegs07 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 6 hours ago, tegs07 said: OK I will phrase it another way. If the economy was based upon a barter system and a chicken could be swapped for a nugget of gold. Even though the nugget of gold has no practical use it’s pretty rare so has value and is sought after. This works pretty well until the chicken farmer discovers that a gold mine has opened up and is distributing gold nuggets around the town and everyone has them. Does he still want to swap his chicken for a nugget, or does he ask for a bit extra? (Obviously extremely simplistic analogy we could add in the extraction costs of the gold , the fuel required to mine and transport it, the russian dictator, the debt cost required to borrow the gold from the mine to start with and the chicken flu pandemic that limited the supply of chickens and the rising scarcity of chicken feed due to the russian dictator as well as the increasing labour costs for the farmer). Chickens and basses. If economists really understood inflation we wouldn't have any. Instead we have people doing what they do and the value of money is decreasing as prices rise. If you're asking "is the rising price of basses out of kilter with inflation?" that is a different question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Musicman20 said: I've said this elsewhere.... The UK in particular is reaching insanity with it's pricing. Import Sterlings are now reaching £1500! https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/search/?Query=musicman+bass It is worth considering that only 8 ish years ago you could get a USA Musicman Bongo HH for £1400-1500, a Stingray H for £1200-1400 and a Classic Stingray H for £1500. At some point surely people just WILL NOT be able buy. Fender and Gibson are doing the same. Compare the US pricing and the rates of exchange over time to get the true picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said: Chickens and basses. If economists really understood inflation we wouldn't have any. Instead we have people doing what they do and the value of money is decreasing as prices rise. If you're asking "is the rising price of basses out of kilter with inflation?" that is a different question. Central banks (attempt) to control inflation rather than economists. I’m questioning the purposes of numerous threads about rising prices. Price rises don’t happen overnight or by accident. A massive increase in the supply of money (QE then furlough) at the same time as rising costs of energy and raw materials (war), increased consumption, lack of supply ( both of which are Covid related) and rising labour costs (inflation/cost of living crisis) all play a part. I can’t see this situation resolving quickly and countries like the USA which produce the expensive Gibsons, Fenders, G&Ls and MusicMan basses are hit by all of the problems above. I guess energy costs, raw materials and transportation costs are rising so it’s only the labour costs (including welfare of employees) that can really be contained which gives a considerable advantage to Far East producers of instruments. So yep I expect that considering all the circumstances it’s not that shocking that a US mass produced instruments are costing more than a few years back when central banks were pumping liquidity into the market to rescue investment banks, commercial banks were flooding the economy with money for cheap mortgages and loans, the cost of borrowing was at historic lows and energy (read fossil fuels) were being burned cheaply with little regard to their cost either in terms of national security or environmental impact. Edited March 31, 2023 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 It seems to me this entire discussion comes down to "I remember when a P bass cost five shillings and sixpence" 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just now, SteveXFR said: It seems to me this entire discussion comes down to "I remember when a P bass cost five shillings and sixpence" Which was probably a months salary so a reversal to the norm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 17 minutes ago, tegs07 said: Central banks (attempt) to control inflation rather than economists It's the economists' purview to figure out the complex behaviour that is the cause. They can't. So Central Banks pull levers to do their best and eventually it settles down as the economists 'predicted' so they all keep their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 On 30/03/2023 at 18:53, Beedster said: Just asking, prices are getting silly? I bought a new Strat recently Chris, luckily second hand, as it’s from the new Fender American Vintage II range and they are nearly £2k brand new. I remember when we sold CS basses at that price a short while ago 😢 Thing is, these Strats are sold out with a wait until end of the year, so people are buying them. I probably would have paid that too as I was picky about spec and the ‘61 has all I wanted. Just glad I lucked out and got one used (and as new)…. Under £1500, as it should be in my head too 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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