FinnDave Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, T-Bay said: Cheesy crisps I think very small bits of broken cheesy crisps, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 35 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixty-fourth_note To get a half convincing sustained note just from "the fingers" on a dead bass you'd need to be fast and consistent at these, I'd struggle beyond 8ths or 16ths at a push for a short duration. Bluddy nora batty - they exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Assuming that we're talking about half decent instruments that are, at least, reasonably set up... There's definitely far too much emphasis placed on sustain. There are way more important things to consider when deciding on a bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 As said a long way up the thread - why would you not value sustain? Ok my first (and still favourite) bass has exceptional sustain, and so I most naturally play that way - but I can play a controlled staccato by damping when it's wanted, or let a note ring for two or even three bars when that sounds right. I can play an open string and let it ring as a drone while I develop the line on the other strings. I can hold a single root note for each bar through a frenetic lead guitar solo so I'm just anchoring it and not distracting from it. I can run a slow gentle bassline through a blues or folk ballad and keep in that groove. When I play my son's super new MIA Fender P I just feel frustrated, the notes die so quickly that I don't have the range of expressive options I'm used to. Fair enough if you're just playing punchy rock'n'roll, but much beyond that, sustain opens up so many musical options, how could you not want it? All imho of course :-) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, SteveK said: There's definitely far too much emphasis placed on sustain. There are way more important things to consider when deciding on a bass. Consider everything. It's all important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 16:29, FinnDave said: I've always felt it was an inappropriate import from the six string world, where sustain is a much-valued property on any guitar, apparently. It doesn't seem relevant to any bass playing I've ever done, and many people use string dampers to reduce the natural sustain. Dave, Your right. A lot of it comes from the guitar world. We're a 3 mics out front configuration. I'm one of the 3. Those who have read my posts and threads know I'm not a stand back by the drummer bass to amp player. I actually intentionally employ and incorporate a lot of the guitar world into my sound, but not my tone. For most of the heavier stuff we play I have an appropriate amount of clean bass dialed in . But that's merely my foundation to build on. I have a fair amount of distortion and chorus on top of the clean bass signal. For some songs I even use and add the a little modulation for synth for 3 note grooves under a guitar solo. I've often toyed with the idea of switching over to a tube based guitar rig . Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
converse320 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 In my opinion, it's not just a question of how long the note lasts (sustain), it's also a question of what it sounds like. To my ears, basses that won't sustain a note well sound different (and worse) than ones that will. There is less richness and interest to the note, presumably because the mechanism that is sucking out energy and shortening the note is also sucking out harmonics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 59 minutes ago, converse320 said: In my opinion, it's not just a question of how long the note lasts (sustain), it's also a question of what it sounds like. To my ears, basses that won't sustain a note well sound different (and worse) than ones that will. There is less richness and interest to the note, presumably because the mechanism that is sucking out energy and shortening the note is also sucking out harmonics. I would suspect that the higher harmonics are dying off quickly and leaving behind a somewhat dull, lifeless sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 A reasonable amount of sustain would be a pre requisite of any decent bass guitar, but to pass on a great sounding bass cos it wont hold a note for 15 seconds would be strange in the extreme. To insist on lots and lots of sustain, only to spend all your time trying to dampen it, seems a little perverse to me. I have a cheap Yamaha and it has more than enough sustain and harmonics, I have to be very careful to dampen strings to stop it resonating and producing overtones. A lively bass is fine for me, anything more is simply a waste. Why do people insist on a bass that has loads of sustain then put flats on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, charic said: I would suspect that the higher harmonics are dying off quickly and leaving behind a somewhat dull, lifeless sound You maybe right in terms of upper harmonics dying off quickly but those of my basses with the best sustain tend to retain less lifeless tone for longer. Like several other people have said about their own playing, my general style tends to be more staccato and sustain is less of an issue than acceptable muting technique and in some cases having the strings permanently muted. However there are occasions when longer notes are required such as on ballads. I also once played in a tribute band where a particular song ending required the bass to hold the last note for three beats and then on the fourth slide down part of the octave - rest for the first beat of the next bar and then play the octave below the held note for one beat (the last note for the other instruments as well). It was essential for the bass to be able to hold that note and not decay too much or die mid way during the held note or slide. You may say this is a very fine detail but isn't that what much of music is about - fine details of arrangement? In this instance it was an extremely effective ending to a shortish pop song. Having sufficient sustain is just one of a number of essential elements to a bass sound as far as I'm concerned. Edited January 10, 2018 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 33 minutes ago, charic said: I would suspect that the higher harmonics are dying off quickly and leaving behind a somewhat dull, lifeless sound +1 and again this is exactly the key point of this discussion. Don’t just think about sustain in terms of “how long a note plays for”. More sustain means more harmonics, and that means better tone (or at least a ‘richer’ starting tone for you to sculpt however you wish). This is just as relevant to the bassist playing funky 1/16ths as it is to the bassist playing long notes on a fretless. This isn’t subjective opinion, it’s acoustic physics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 30 minutes ago, mikel said: Why do people insist on a bass that has loads of sustain then put flats on it? Maybe the people insisting on a bass with sustain aren't the ones putting flats on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) Maybe the article in the following link will help clarify some of the issues raised in this thread. It's concerned with sustain (natural sustain that is, not the kind you get from a Marshall stack cranked to 11) on guitar strings, but a plucked string is a plucked string so with a few minor caveats the same basic rules apply. Sustain I'll keep digging around in the meantime. ETA: Here's another piece, this time studying the effect of different string gauges on sustain and more by way of a discussion. Not really that scientific IMHO, but on the upside it is from Talkbass so it's ok to read it. Talkbass discussion Finally (for now at least) here's a very interesting (IMHO of course) article on the subject of resonance, energy and sustain (this time from a real bass player - who, er, also happens to be a scientist of some sort). My favourite quote is in the paragraph headed 'What we've learned.' Caution: contents may cause offence to owners of stupidly expensive basses with exotic tonewoods. Resonance Edited January 10, 2018 by leftybassman392 Added content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said: Maybe the article in the following link will help clarify some of the issues raised in this thread. It's concerned with sustain (natural sustain that is, not the kind you get from a Marshal stack cranked to 11) on guitar strings, but a plucked string is a plucked string so with a few minor caveats the same basic rules apply. Sustain I'll keep digging around in the meantime. As I clicked into this article I somehow knew that scene from Spinal Tap would be depicted somewhere, class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I think over the years, some people have confused "having sustain" with "not having dead spots" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 16:29, FinnDave said: I've always felt it was an inappropriate import from the six string world, where sustain is a much-valued property on any guitar, apparently. It doesn't seem relevant to any bass playing I've ever done, and many people use string dampers to reduce the natural sustain. Dave, Your right. A lot of it comes from the guitar world. We're a 3 mics out front configuration. I'm one of the 3. Those who have read my posts and threads know I'm not a stand back by the drummer bass to amp player. I actually intentionally employ and incorporate a lot of the guitar world into my sound, but not my tone. For most of the heavier stuff we play I have an appropriate amount of clean bass dialed in . But that's merely my foundation to build on. I have a fair amount of distortion and chorus on top of the clean bass signal. For some songs I even use and add the a little modulation for synth for 3 note grooves under a guitar solo. I've often toyed with the idea of switching over to a tube based guitar rig . Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) This is what I'm after. A sound that most of us would have little use for. However it's a really full sound. Ican use it in about 6 songs at every gig. I don't have a 12 string, I use a bass octave pedal with distortion and chorus Tom Petterson, Is this sustain? Blue Edited January 10, 2018 by Bluewine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 16 hours ago, chris_b said: Consider everything. It's all important. But some things are more important than others. A potential buyer will have made his mind up as to whether a particular bass is for him, long before he reaches for his stopwatch to time the length of sustain. Many bass players used to rave about the sustain on those carbon graphite basses that were all the rage in the 80s. My feeling was, "So what!" They may have all the sustain in the world but they sound friggin' horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drTStingray Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, SteveK said: But some things are more important than others. A potential buyer will have made his mind up as to whether a particular bass is for him, long before he reaches for his stopwatch to time the length of sustain. Many bass players used to rave about the sustain on those carbon graphite basses that were all the rage in the 80s. My feeling was, "So what!" They may have all the sustain in the world but they sound friggin' horrible. One of the first things I look for in a bass is the tone and whether it enables me to get my sound (I suspect we all have a sound in our heads we are striving for). As has been stated before in this thread, tone and sustain are generally linked. Unless you're aiming to buy a bass to provide a toneless thump or rumble (and I can believe some people do judging by some comments and some bass sounds I've heard) then tone (and thus sustain) would surely be a primary consideration for most musicians - once you have that, muting to create thump can follow - this could take the form of technique or some device to deaden the strings - these days flatwound strings don't necessarily mean dull and dead sound - some are better than others in terms of giving a little more breadth of tone. As for carbon graphite, a Stingray or Sabre with such a neck creates a clearer and more punchy sound - and you surely wouldn't be berating Status basses - not to everyone's taste but from what I've heard, they produce an excellent sound. However for someone after vintage sound (especially at the woolly end of vintage) they probably wouldn't be looking to one of those. Edited January 11, 2018 by drTStingray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 I guess Cheap Trick were not that big in the UK. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgehouse Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Using technique alone, you can remove sustain (damping/muting) but you can't add sustain to a bass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, leftybassman392 said: Maybe the article in the following link will help clarify some of the issues raised in this thread. It's concerned with sustain (natural sustain that is, not the kind you get from a Marshall stack cranked to 11) on guitar strings, but a plucked string is a plucked string so with a few minor caveats the same basic rules apply. Sustain I'll keep digging around in the meantime. ETA: Here's another piece, this time studying the effect of different string gauges on sustain and more by way of a discussion. Not really that scientific IMHO, but on the upside it is from Talkbass so it's ok to read it. Talkbass discussion Finally (for now at least) here's a very interesting (IMHO of course) article on the subject of resonance, energy and sustain (this time from a real bass player - who, er, also happens to be a scientist of some sort). My favourite quote is in the paragraph headed 'What we've learned.' Caution: contents may cause offence to owners of stupidly expensive basses with exotic tonewoods. Resonance Thank you for an interesting read. The instrument of mine with the most sustain, by far, is my Squier VM Mustang which is the only one with a string through body. Whilst reading this thread and examining my playing technique I discover I have a LH technique of note length by killing, or not, the note with more or less pressure. I have not consciously done this but I assume everyone does, (I've never had any tuition). On reading though I think I've just stated the obvious, oh well never mind. Edited January 11, 2018 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 One of our fellow BCers has pointed out a new Pigtronix pedal, on another thread, which both compresses and sustains. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PhilosBMicro It's the bass version of a guitar compression / sustain pedal that Pigtronix had previously released. Must admit I'm very tempted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 10:20, Woodinblack said: Maybe the people insisting on a bass with sustain aren't the ones putting flats on it? Oh yes they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I traded my '73 Rick 4001 for a Travis Bean bass. That thing sustained so well I could put it back in its case, drive home, go to bed, get up the next morning, open the case and the last note I played would still be sustaining. Got rid of it - don't recall what I bought with the money, but that Bean was one of very few top class instruments I have never regretted moving on. Looked gorgeous, mind you. Midnight blue sparkle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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