Geek99 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Hi I'd like a more gritty tone. I think I would get this from a valve amp but I'm aware that they can be fragile- can someone tell me what to look for ? Do I need particular controls to drive the valve, do I need a particular kind of valve? Will a valve DI, or decent MFX unit do the job ? Do I just need mild overdrive from my zoom B2.1? fairly clueless on this topic. I've currently got a zoom b2.1, a precision, and a hartke hydrive 2 x 10 (which I find a bit "polite") - it has a sansamp patch but I dont know if this is realistic. thanks for your input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) The DHA VT1 will give you a very passable valve grind tone (as it's a valve preamp pedal) even via a solid state amp, it really does sound brilliant! In fact...I loved mine so much I got an all valve orange rig and now I'm really really happy with my sound Edited June 18, 2014 by andydye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 you should be able to get a decent tone out of the zoom. I'm pretty sure it's got an SVT model, use that for the amp, then try the overdrives as well. I've not used mine in ages but I think I was using the SVT amp model and the Tube Screamer distortion model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) Valve amps are not necessarily more fragile than anything else. If you drop them they will break! But look after them, use a flightcase for transport & dont bash it around, no worries. I've had mine (trace elliot v4) for a couple of years now with no problems at all but I'm careful with it & invested in a proper fitted flight case (EPS flight cases ltd). IMO if you want a valve grind sound, get a valve amp that will deliver it, anything else is an imitation, sometimes quite a good imitation but still not the real thing. Mine is not particularly dirty sounding more big & warm, try the orange ad200 much grind available with the gain cranked! The right dirt pedal will sound better driving a valve amp too. Edited June 18, 2014 by Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Yes it has an svt model but I've never tried adding OD - will try thx I only really play at home so flight casing isn't an issue but good info thx I'll look at that DI pedal thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If I only played at home and wanted nice valve grind, I'd go for a low wattage valve amp like the Ashdown LB30. I don't see delicacy being an issue at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If you're on a budget or just don't want to spend valve amp money you could try a BDI-21 (£26) which sounds very close indeed to a SansAmp and will give you 'SVT-ish' at a fraction of the price. If you don't like it you can move it on without much loss. But I think you'll like it. I do agree though that there is nothing that provides the grit and pure slam of a valve amp - and it has to have valve pre AND power stages in my humble opinion - a valve pre into a SS power stage just doesn't sound the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1403085526' post='2479531'] I've currently got a zoom b2.1, a precision, and a hartke hydrive 2 x 10 (which I find a bit "polite") - it has a sansamp patch but I dont know if this is realistic. thanks for your input [/quote] It doesn't matter if it's realistic or not - if it sounds good to you, it is good. Without replacing your amp with a full-valve jobbie, there are plenty of pedals about that will do a fantastic job a giving you a bit of grit. My personal choice is the Tech 21 Leeds pedal (Hiwatt emulation) - not hugely popular aomongst us bassists for some reason but they also do a VT bass pedal (SVT emulation) which is massively popular. I'm just not into the Ampeg sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 plus 1 for Dave Hall Pedals but they are expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Beyond what I can justify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingraybassman Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403092228' post='2479632'] If you're on a budget or just don't want to spend valve amp money you could try a BDI-21 (£26) which sounds very close indeed to a SansAmp and will give you 'SVT-ish' at a fraction of the price. If you don't like it you can move it on without much loss. But I think you'll like it. I do agree though that there is nothing that provides the grit and pure slam of a valve amp - and it has to have valve pre AND power stages in my humble opinion - a valve pre into a SS power stage just doesn't sound the same. [/quote] Agree with Discreet here, we played with a band a while ago where the bass player used the BDI 21, into a Hartke rig if i remember correctly!. I was sure he was using a VT bass or something "expensive". Not sure how well it would stand up to the scrutiny of recording, I'm sure some people on here could give you advice on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403092228' post='2479632'] If you're on a budget or just don't want to spend valve amp money you could try a BDI-21 (£26) which sounds very close indeed to a SansAmp and will give you 'SVT-ish' at a fraction of the price. If you don't like it you can move it on without much loss. But I think you'll like it. I do agree though that there is nothing that provides the grit and pure slam of a valve amp - and it has to have valve pre AND power stages in my humble opinion - a valve pre into a SS power stage just doesn't sound the same. [/quote] That might be worth a look at that price, thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noisyjon Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403092228' post='2479632'] ...I do agree though that there is nothing that provides the grit and pure slam of a valve amp - and it has to have valve pre AND power stages in my humble opinion - a valve pre into a SS power stage just doesn't sound the same. [/quote] +1 This is pretty much it for me too opinion wise. The pedals, pre-amps & sims are great tools but a cranked up valve amp is something special. If I had the money, space & spine for a big valve amp then I would most definitely have a Matamp GT200 or an Ampeg SVT-2 Pro, maybe both to pick and choose from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If the OP is intending playing at home, I'd suggest that a full-size all valve rig would be difficult to tame. Most valve amps give out that o/p stage overdrive only at extremely loud volumes, for which very strong cabs are needed, plus earplugs, plus forgiving neighbours or rolling empty countryside. One cannot get that sound from a big valve amp in a block of flats, as the foundations would tremble and the whole structure collapse. There are smaller valve amps, but that 'grind' isn't the same. Emulation would be my recommendation, using 'dirt' pedals or modelling (or indeed both...). At home, it's unreasonable to use a valve amp at 'grind' volumes. ([i]Disclaimer: I'm a drummer, and have several loud bass and guitar valve amps. I live in a remote part of France precisely so that I may play and disturb no-one, so it can be done, but that's what it takes[/i].) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'll try adding od to the zoom and will consider the behringer bdi21 suggested Thanks alll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1403085526' post='2479531'] Hi I'd like a more gritty tone. I think I would get this from a valve amp but I'm aware that they can be fragile- can someone tell me what to look for ? Do I need particular controls to drive the valve, do I need a particular kind of valve? Will a valve DI, or decent MFX unit do the job ? Do I just need mild overdrive from my zoom B2.1? fairly clueless on this topic. I've currently got a zoom b2.1, a precision, and a hartke hydrive 2 x 10 (which I find a bit "polite") - it has a sansamp patch but I dont know if this is realistic. thanks for your input [/quote] Ashdown CTM15. Best small valve amp out there, bar none. It's also gig-able with a good cab, which you have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyellowcar Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1403092228' post='2479632'] If you're on a budget or just don't want to spend valve amp money you could try a BDI-21 (£26) which sounds very close indeed to a SansAmp and will give you 'SVT-ish' at a fraction of the price. If you don't like it you can move it on without much loss. But I think you'll like it. I do agree though that there is nothing that provides the grit and pure slam of a valve amp - and it has to have valve pre AND power stages in my humble opinion - a valve pre into a SS power stage just doesn't sound the same. [/quote] +1 on the Behringer. Best bit of kit you can buy sub-£50 if you ask me. I leave mine 'always on' to give me as close to a valve sound as I will get out of my practise amp. My only advice when using it would be to dial back the blend knob to about half way so you get a bit of mid range from your amp's EQ. The pedal has a tendency to scoop the mids. @Mark, I had been wondering whether or not to buy something like a Terror Bass or one of the Hartke heads but I have been doubting whether a valve pre alone would be 'enough'. You've confirmed my doubts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='theyellowcar' timestamp='1403116675' post='2479993'] @Mark, I had been wondering whether or not to buy something like a Terror Bass or one of the Hartke heads but I have been doubting whether a valve pre alone would be 'enough'. You've confirmed my doubts! [/quote] You're welcome to check out my Burman Valve Pre and Power any time. It's valve-tastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1403085720' post='2479535'] you should be able to get a decent tone out of the zoom. I'm pretty sure it's got an SVT model, use that for the amp, then try the overdrives as well. I've not used mine in ages but I think I was using the SVT amp model and the Tube Screamer distortion model. [/quote] That`s what I did with my B3 - and a little bit of Dynacomp as well. Kept the blend on the SVT and Tubescreamer very low though, so it just added a bit of grind to the sound I was using, rather than changing the sound. I also agree re DHA pedals and Behringer BDI21, plus the Tech21 VT DI which I currently use is great, especially if looking for an Ampeg type sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1403117626' post='2480005'] I also agree re DHA pedals and Behringer BDI21, plus the Tech21 VT DI which I currently use is great, especially if looking for an Ampeg type sound. [/quote] +1 If you know you want the Ampeg sound (or something like it) then the Tech21 VTs are the best of the bunch. IMHO. Edited June 18, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I've not really got anything more to add; Behringer BDI21 or DHA VT1 would be my first choices (obviously dependent on budget). Try the Behringer first. at £26 it's not going to break the bank and if you find that for whatever reason you don't like it then the resale value on here is generally about £20, so you'll be £6 out of pocket but a lot closer to pinning down your ideal sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Thanks - will try and get a used one on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I actually bought a BDI21 from Amazon the other day. Tried it, opened a return item call and got a refund. The pedal really wasn't for me. But I got to try it out for free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 [quote name='Noisyjon' timestamp='1403098163' post='2479731'] If I had the money, space & spine for a big valve amp then I would most definitely have a Matamp GT200 or an Ampeg SVT-2 Pro, maybe both to pick and choose from [/quote] Highly recommended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visog Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Bit more cash to spend? What about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZVFpNUEvx0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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