rickenbacker police

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1363275913' post='2010891']
In what way is it not relevant?

I fail to see any ethical difference between buying a cheap bottle of Cola that says "Tesco" on the label and tastes a lot like Coca Cola and buying a cheap bass that says "Rockinbetter" on the headstock and looks a lot like a Rickenbacker.
[/quote]

Give them a lick. A Rickenbacker and a Rockinbetter probably taste very similar too.

I'm not saying that it's right or wrong... but the precedent has already been set.

Edited March 14, 2013 by EBS_freak

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1363275785' post='2010888']

OK, lets look at the Piano. There are essentially two types. An upright and a grand.

[/quote]

My baby grand is feeling hurt that he's been left out.....

[Stacker]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1363264875' post='2010638']
As can be seen from old TOTP videos John Birch made a fair few Rick copies without being stopped.
However I believe his surviving business partner has been given a cease & desist notice after he had a modern John Birch (AD) 4001 well reviewed in G&B magazine.

In opined that a JB was way in excess of a Rick in terms of build quality, price & function on Rick-Resource. Some guy who looks too much like Jimmy Hill for his own good took me viciously to task and then deleted my post. They don't like t up 'em!
[/quote]
Who he, then?

[SteveK]

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1363275913' post='2010891']
In what way is it not relevant?

I fail to see any ethical difference between buying a cheap bottle of Cola that says "Tesco" on the label and tastes a lot like Coca Cola and buying a cheap bass that says "Rockinbetter" on the headstock and looks a lot like a Rickenbacker.
[/quote]
Tesco Cola is easily distinguishable from Coca Cola.
The identity of the product (ie the can/bottle) is what people recognise. If I were in the soft drinks business and put out a cola drink in a red can with 'Steve's Cola' in a swirly silver (or is it white?) font (Coca Cola stylee), then I would fully expect a missive from Coca Cola's legal dept.

Edited March 14, 2013 by SteveK

[SlapbassSteve]

It's interesting the point about 'no company should be allowed to copy another's bass' -I for one would never have been able to take up the instrument were it not for an absolute wreck of a Boston P-Bass copy that was the best I could afford at 16.

How many of us here began playing on a Precision or Jazz style bass? Frankly in my experience the people who's parents paid out the £500+ for a new Fender are usually the ones that give up playing after five minutes of posing in the mirror rather then playing the damn thing... rant over haha

It just seems overall the reason for this rickstapo attitude is insecurity over quality control, they need to protect the brand because the guitars themselves are overpriced by roughly 180% for what they are... for the £2k-ish price tag(and 8 month waiting list) of a new 4003 you could have a pro luthier build you a custom bass out of your choice of woods and hardware. [size=2] [/size][size=2] [/size]

[size=1](I must admit though, the 4003 in fireglo is still one of the most beautiful basses I've ever seen, much prefer the look to one of those exotic wood custom jobbies I was just on about... )[/size]

[brensabre79]

I've owned a real Rickenbacker in the past. I also own a Rockinbetter now. It took a bit of work to get it to sound like a Ric, (basically new pickups and electrics) but it has always played better than both the Ric i owned (and paid a large sum of money for) and the Rics I have played. Most people who see it walk up to me and say "Hey thats a nice Ricken... oh..."

I own a number of Fender Jazz basses. I owned a number of Jazz Bass copies in the past. And a couple of Squiers in between. The real Fenders are better, so I don't have the copies any more.

The Rockinbetter, is the single most expensive 'copy' I have ever owned (these are nearly £500 new now) but it plays really well, and after some modifications sounds really good too.

And here is the problem for Mr Hall,

The cost of a genuine Rickenbacker is largely swallowed up with US labour, wheras companies like Fender and Gibson, for example, have lower priced options available made overseas.

Nobody just starting out on an instrument is going to spend £1,200 + just to see... They will more than likely get a budget starter instrument, and over the years make gradual upgrades, until one day they settle with a pro quality bass. Have the Korean made Squiers cheapened the Fender brand? No. Have they encouraged beginners to aspire to a US Fender one day? Yes - probably via a Mexican/Japanese Fender along the way.

That's 2-4 basses sold by Fender Co. whilst Billy is saving up for his Ric.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1363277859' post='2010946']
Tesco Cola is easily distinguishable from Coca Cola.
The identity of the product (ie the can/bottle) is what people recognise. If I were in the soft drinks business and put out a cola drink in a red can with 'Steve's Cola' in a swirly silver (or is it white?) font (Coca Cola stylee), then I would fully expect a missive from Coca Cola's legal dept.
[/quote]

You should take a walk round Aldi! Plenty of the above in there!

[KevB]

Just out of curiosity, anyone who knows about car stuff have any idea what happens with these companies that make kits to fit over, say a Peugeot, that makes it look like a Ferrari? Do the replica companies pay some sort of licence fee to the original manufacturer or designer? This sort of thing;

[IMG]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c307/KevB64/360_real_fake_nose_to_nose_zps5bfb4944.jpg[/IMG]

The fake is on the right incidentally.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1363277859' post='2010946']
Tesco Cola is easily distinguishable from Coca Cola.
The identity of the product (ie the can/bottle) is what people recognise. If I were in the soft drinks business and put out a cola drink in a red can with 'Steve's Cola' in a swirly silver (or is it white?) font (Coca Cola stylee), then I would fully expect a missive from Coca Cola's legal dept.
[/quote]

You're explaining the legal reason why its ok for supermarkets to make own brand cola, not the ethical one.

People don't buy Cola to look at the bottle.They buy supermarket Cola because they want something that looks a bit like Coca Cola (its brown, wet, and fizzy) and tastes a bit like Coca Cola, but at a fraction of the price. Similarly, people buy Rickenbacker copies because they want a bass that looks and sounds a bit like a Rickenbacker, but at a fraction of the price. As far as the consumer is concerned its the same ethical situation.

Edited March 14, 2013 by uncle psychosis

[The Dark Lord]

It's just like all those people who wear cheap TAG fake watches. They think they look sophisticated, but the Nike trainers, tracksuit and fags give it away.

Take some pride in yourselves people. Don't give your wife a fake Cartier watch from down the market. It means that you don't value her. Don't buy yourself a copy bass guitar, it shows that you consider yourself to be of low value.

There are plenty of affordable alternatives out there without demeaning yourself. Or ..... you could chose a licenced copy. Then you wouldn't be so seedy.

[MoJoKe]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1363202531' post='2009800']
I still don't understand why manufacturers would want to copy something so pants to start with anyway...?
[/quote]
[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1363205406' post='2009857']
Cheeky
[/quote]

But totally valid!!

[Musky]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1363282358' post='2011036']
It's just like all those people who wear cheap TAG fake watches. They think they look sophisticated, but the Nike trainers, tracksuit and fags give it away.

Take some pride in yourselves people. Don't give your wife a fake Cartier watch from down the market. It means that you don't value her. [b]Don't buy yourself a copy bass guitar, it shows that you consider yourself to be of low value.[/b]

There are plenty of affordable alternatives out there without demeaning yourself. Or ..... you could chose a licenced copy. Then you wouldn't be so seedy.
[/quote]
Oh please!

Edited March 14, 2013 by Musky

[SlapbassSteve]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1363282358' post='2011036']
It's just like all those people who wear cheap TAG fake watches. They think they look sophisticated, but the Nike trainers, tracksuit and fags give it away.

Take some pride in yourselves people. Don't give your wife a fake Cartier watch from down the market. It means that you don't value her. [b]Don't buy yourself a copy bass guitar, it shows that you consider yourself to be of low value.[/b]

There are plenty of affordable alternatives out there without demeaning yourself. Or ..... you could chose a licenced copy. Then you wouldn't be so seedy.
[/quote]


...So, taking this in another direction, what about all the people forking out for the likes of Sandberg and Nordstrand that make copy Jazz and Precision basses, but to unquestionably higher standards then Fender themselves..?

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1363282358' post='2011036']Don't buy yourself a copy bass guitar, it shows that you consider yourself to be of low value.[/quote]

My bass is a Gibson copy

[bartelby]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1363286829' post='2011141']
My bass is a Gibson copy
[/quote]

Do you hate yourself or something?

[discreet]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1363281352' post='2011010']
The fake is on the right incidentally.
[/quote]

Well, obviously - it's the wrong colour.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1363282358' post='2011036']
It's just like all those people who wear cheap TAG fake watches. They think they look sophisticated, but the Nike trainers, tracksuit and fags give it away.

Take some pride in yourselves people. Don't give your wife a fake Cartier watch from down the market. It means that you don't value her. Don't buy yourself a copy bass guitar, it shows that you consider yourself to be of low value.

There are plenty of affordable alternatives out there without demeaning yourself. Or ..... you could chose a licenced copy. Then you wouldn't be so seedy.
[/quote]

Almost as bad as faking wear and tear on a relic

[skankdelvar]

A copy of Mr JMW Turner's 'Waves Breaking Upon A Lee' has hung upon my wall these many years. I now feel irredeemably seedy and shall withdraw from public life.

[Roger2611]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1363282358' post='2011036']
It's just like all those people who wear cheap TAG fake watches. They think they look sophisticated, but the Nike trainers, tracksuit and fags give it away.

Take some pride in yourselves people. Don't give your wife a fake Cartier watch from down the market. It means that you don't value her. Don't buy yourself a copy bass guitar, it shows that you consider yourself to be of low value.

There are plenty of affordable alternatives out there without demeaning yourself. Or ..... you could chose a licenced copy. Then you wouldn't be so seedy.
[/quote]
My first guitar was a £25 Kay Strat copy, my first bass was a £20 no named P bass, I can't remember there being much of an alternative available that a 16 year old could afford at the time, I thought both were pretty cool because hey I am now a musician, from what you suggest then really I shouldn't have taken up music at all because I couldn't have afforded a "proper" guitar....30 years of playing later I think that would have been a waste

[The Dark Lord]

[quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1363285509' post='2011110']
...So, taking this in another direction, what about all the people forking out for the likes of Sandberg and Nordstrand that make copy Jazz and Precision basses, but to unquestionably higher standards then Fender themselves..?
[/quote]
Shame on them (Sandberg and Nordstrand I mean).

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1363287448' post='2011151']
Do you hate yourself or something? [/quote]

I do! Black! Black is the day! heavy is my heart! - so much so that I'm going to paint it black & turn Goth.

maybe it should have been a Gibson Gothic?

[Beer of the Bass]

There isn't anyone doing with Rickenbacker style instruments what Sandberg, Nordstrand, Sadowsky etc. are doing with Fender-esque basses, except perhaps John Birch who isn't around anymore. I can understand the rationale behind buying their instruments, as they provide the functional attributes and much of the appearance of the Fenders, but with far more options available and a degree of personalisation that a larger company would struggle to provide.
The currently available Ric copies are all cheap knock-offs, but if a small company was to offer a quality bass built like a Rickenbacker except with a sensible bridge, no uncomfortable pickup surround and the option of five strings, I'd be sort of tempted to save up my gig money for one! It'd be even better if Ric themselves offered such a thing, but I can see they have little incentive to.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[Big_Stu]

Spend too long thinking about Rickenbacker - and Fender and songs start coming into your mind...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsCyC1dZiN8

[Lozz196]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1363282358' post='2011036']
It's just like all those people who wear cheap TAG fake watches. They think they look sophisticated, but the Nike trainers, tracksuit and fags give it away.

Take some pride in yourselves people. Don't give your wife a fake Cartier watch from down the market. It means that you don't value her. Don't buy yourself a copy bass guitar, it shows that you consider yourself to be of low value.

There are plenty of affordable alternatives out there without demeaning yourself. Or ..... you could chose a licenced copy. Then you wouldn't be so seedy.
[/quote]

Yep, bit like Kevin Klein jeans really.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1363293027' post='2011256']
Spend too long thinking about Rickenbacker - and Fender and songs start coming into your mind...........
[/quote]


Bah! You only posted that because one of the YT comments goes:

"I'm a better musician. Serious musicians and composers are not commercial I trained at the top music school in the US.. I'm a CREATIVE person. I am a vocalist, composer, multi-instrumentalist. I taught myself how to write music but I had extensive training. I sing advanced music and write advanced music. I can write simple music too. I need donations since the commercial world does not fund serious composers or serious musicians. I need assistance. All serious musicians do."


best,
bert