Old farts

[JTUK]

or can new farts..??

just listening to the Montreau Jazz festival on Sky arts..

Ian Piace with Deep Purple has still got IT... one of the more musical drummers in rock.always has been, IMV and
still knocks out a greats tracks with a lot of panache. Admittedly it was 2004, but plenty of old guys have lost it big time after that sort of
career.

Queens of the Stone age and Chris Connell's offering (2005)...??? the term garage band was invented for them as they should still be locked in the garage..on the basis of their TV performance..and never let out

By the same token...ELP...?? oh dear god..!!!

[Stag]

Ian Paice has to be one of my fave drummers ever, technical and yet very powerful - surely an influence on many that followed him!

[dougie]

i`d listen to our older gods anyday as opposed to some of the stuff around now especially bass...lemmy,geddy lee,billy sheehan....list is endless

[chris_b]

I used to play with a fantastic 13 year old guitarist, but I was very conscious that I was way older than his Dad!!

I think older players are more relaxed and know what works without wasting energy, which is good. Younger players have the enthusiasm to try anything and energy to waste, which is also good in it's own way.

I think that “old Farts” match up to the kids in every respect, except when the gig involves stairs!

[Len_derby]

The idea that, in terms of talent and the ability to play well and entertain, age =bad thing
is fairly recent (in terms of the history of music) and totally mad.

In my opinion it's all driven by the fashion/'pop' culture/advertising evil axis. We're dupes if we accept it.

Ageism is rare in classical music, jazz and blues. Sometimes the opposite happens (which is also silly).

If you've got it, you've got it. Age doesn't matter

[scalpy]

Keith Richards in his autobiography states that if he and his peers were Black and called Count Basie or Duke Ellington nobody would mind a bit. Because it's Rock'n'Roll though you're meant to give up. I know his has a vested interest in this point but I totally see it.

I thought Ian Paice with Macca, Mick Green and Gilmour a few years ago were dynamite.

If you feel it, play it. A point I'd like to go back and make to myself 5 years ago when I gave up my originals band for being too old and bald, when I was 29!

[Ancient Mariner]

Most people mellow after 2 or 3 decades of playing, and bands that are lively and exciting at first very often become more refined and less 'fun'. There are exceptions, but I find sometimes that I miss the reckless energy and raw performance from a mature band's performance: for me, refinement and subtle technique are no substitute.

[gjones]

I was at a rather professionally organised blues/rock jam the other night and was amazed by the range in ages that were playing on the stage. The musicians ages' ranged from 17 to almost 70! And the olduns were rocking it up even more than the younguns.
I remember aged 17 having an earnest discussion about how the Rolling Stones should jack it all in and swap the rock 'n' roll lifestyle for a pipe and slippers once they hit 40. Yeah that'll be right! I'm not exactly a teenager anymore and when the hair goes grey and the teeth start falling out I'm definitely planning on growing old disgracefully.

Edited March 19, 2011 by gjones

[EdwardHimself]

To answer your question, i think it really depends on how old and farty they are.

Seriously though, one person on drummerworld had a dad who was giving up drumming... at age 95. If you want to play then play, it's not a big deal how old you are really.

[Delberthot]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='1168124' date='Mar 19 2011, 12:15 PM']Most people mellow after 2 or 3 decades of playing, and bands that are lively and exciting at first very often become more refined and less 'fun'. There are exceptions, but I find sometimes that I miss the reckless energy and raw performance from a mature band's performance: for me, refinement and subtle technique are no substitute.[/quote]


must be 3 decades for me then.

I'm playing with more energy and improvisation than I ever have. I've been playing for 24 years and I am fortunate in that I am still improving and enjoying it every bit as much as i did when I first picked up a bass when I was 12


One band I was very impressed with a couple of years ago were The Eagles. For a band that have been about as long as they have, they still had a genuine love for the music and entertaining the crowd. Moreso Cheap trick. They only used the house lights as far as I could tell but they were absolutely brilliant.

And lets not forget that Flea is going to be 50 next year and Lemmy is going to be 65 this year

[JTUK]

My view would be that someone like Ian Paice is still relevant and can carry quite an impressive gig today..
Great playing on that TV gig, IMO.

It isn't true of all players...as I have come across 3 relative name players relatively recently ( all drummers as it happens ) who sound and play awful, IMO.
One, I doubt could ever play that well, the other was after a soul gig but was such a one tracked minded rock player, that he was a fish out of water and the other, just too stuck in the past.

I wont mention the names here as they would mean something to a few people here, I expect, as they have quite a few albums under their belt..and would have been pretty big ( at least )in their day

Now, contrast that with some talent coming out of the local music university and those 3 guys would never get a gig infront of some..
Having said that...study alone doesn't always cut it either.

Just an observation, really, no axe to grind, as such.

[Len_derby]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='1168124' date='Mar 19 2011, 12:15 PM']Most people mellow after 2 or 3 decades of playing, and bands that are lively and exciting at first very often become more refined and less 'fun'. There are exceptions, but I find sometimes that I miss the reckless energy and raw performance from a mature band's performance: for me, refinement and subtle technique are no substitute.[/quote]

Yes, I agree with that Mr Mariner (calling you Ancient seems rude). Players have got to still have the 'fire in their belly'.
And, yes, it does seem to go out with some.

[stingrayPete1977]

I wish I could of been able to play as well as I can now when we were still young enough to get a record deal, This is why pop has to be produced because most of the artists cant play well enough or at all to risk the big money on a crap performance. I used to play in an indie covers band with an age range of 30-55 and in many cases musically we could do other bands songs better. Without trying to sound a knob and still giving the credit to the fact they wrote their songs, We could blow the Kaiser Cheifs away musically live, That doesnt say that much about us as they are dreadful!

[Doddy]

Keeping it to drummers.....

Steve Gadd is still the man,and he's in his mid 60's.Players like Louis Bellson and the recently departed
Joe Morello were still blowing people away in their 80's. Dave Weckl and Vinnie Colaiuta are in their 50's.
Even someone like Jojo Mayer,who has been around for years but has only relatively recently become a
massive name,is in his late 40's.

As far as electric bass players,guys like Will Lee,Nathan East,Marcus,Stanley,Anthony Jackson and Pino are
all in their 50's. Tony Levin is in his 60's.

There are great young players,and there are great older players,it makes no difference.

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1168225' date='Mar 19 2011, 01:43 PM']I wish I could of been able to play as well as I can now when we were still young enough to get a record deal, This is why pop has to be produced because most of the artists cant play well enough or at all to risk the big money on a crap performance. I used to play in an indie covers band with an age range of 30-55 and in many cases musically we could do other bands songs better. Without trying to sound a knob and still giving the credit to the fact they wrote their songs, We could blow the Kaiser Cheifs away musically live, That doesnt say that much about us as they are dreadful![/quote]


40 is a distant memory for me, I've given up playing twice now - once for nearly 15 years - but always come back to it. As you get older it does get harder to find good bands though. Although there are a few good bands of old gits, the majority are full of dreamers who, are now financially in a position to spend a lot of money on new flash gear, smell of Werthers Originals, rehearse for ever, and are just trying to relive a youth they didnt actually have. Can play, but got no 'Soul'. Music shops must love em though !

I wouldnt want to play in a band where everyone else is noticeably younger any more than I would have wanted to play with old farts when I was in my 20s, 3 gigs a week ( doesnt happen all that often ) leaves me knackered though, but as long as I'm having fun and earning a few bob I aint planning to quit.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Slipperydick

[SteveK]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1168080' date='Mar 19 2011, 11:32 AM']By the same token...ELP...?? oh dear god..!!![/quote]
To be fair though, ELP were never good live, regardless of their age. Made some great albums though.


[quote name='Doddy' post='1168283' date='Mar 19 2011, 02:33 PM']There are great young players,and there are great older players,it makes no difference.[/quote]
I'm interested to know who the great young players are (jazz excluded). They don't seem to be making much of a stir

[E sharp]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1168283' date='Mar 19 2011, 02:33 PM']Tony Levin is in his 60's.[/quote]
Bloody hell , is he ?

[E sharp]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1168080' date='Mar 19 2011, 11:32 AM']Queens of the Stone age and Chris Connell's offering (2005)...??? the term garage band was invented for them as they should still be locked in the garage..on the basis of their TV performance..and never let out [/quote]
Perhaps with the engine running ?

[Cat Burrito]

I saw Mary Wilson from the Supremes live this week (got a cheeky little kiss from her too afterwards but that is another story). She was amazing. My expectations were very low but I was blown away. Mary is 67yrs old now.

I've seen a lot of older acts in the last few years and I don't think age comes into it. Keith Richards is still cool as fish even though I'm sure if he took that bandana off he'd look like Albert Steptoe

[Mykesbass]

Gladys Knight was the best thing on Jools Holland's Later in the last couple of years - in fact most of the older acts were the ones that shone through.

[Bassman Sam]

Herbie flowers is still playing great at the tender age of 73. Would like to my hands in his Jass Bass, it looks soo cool.

[Delberthot]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1168283' date='Mar 19 2011, 02:33 PM']Keeping it to drummers.....

Steve Gadd is still the man,and he's in his mid 60's.Players like Louis Bellson and the recently departed
Joe Morello were still blowing people away in their 80's. Dave Weckl and Vinnie Colaiuta are in their 50's.
Even someone like Jojo Mayer,who has been around for years but has only relatively recently become a
massive name,is in his late 40's.

As far as electric bass players,guys like Will Lee,Nathan East,Marcus,Stanley,Anthony Jackson and Pino are
all in their 50's. Tony Levin is in his 60's.

There are great young players,and there are great older players,it makes no difference.[/quote]


Ooh, three of my favourite drummers - Gadd, Weckl and Colaiuta. The fourth being Mikkey Dee from Motorhead who is 47: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlecTBevmzc"]Overkill[/url]


My all time favourite, Buddy Rich, played right up until he died at 69



Roger Waters - how many bass players have to wait until they get to be 67 before having a signature bass made?

[JTUK]

My point was how good are the guys in the first place if their career was pretty much the one gig with a band that sold quite a few albums over a few years and then went quiet. And then they pop up on the Euro scene doing a revival gig..long before reforming got fashionable in between running another business.

If theY haven't kept playing, then aren't going to be that on top of things...and if they didn't start from much of a grounding in the firsdt place, like their first gig was lucky enough to break.. how good would they be now?

I am not talking about Gadd or the like..they have never stopped playing and you are talking creme anyway, but someone whose main gig has gone quiet or disintergrated, they have gone off to do other non-musical work and now gets the chance to play again for nostaligia and the venue will pay £5-10,000 or so to bring them all together..?

I can't really name the people I am thinking about so maybe this thread is done...but what I talking about is that an ex-name turns up at your pub...plays a few numbers on a borrowed kit...and then you wonder what all the fuss was all about.

5 guys, I am talking about..in the last few years. and you wouldn't book any of them to do your gig.

Are we more impressed with the 'name' than the player..??

[Juzgoez]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1169239' date='Mar 20 2011, 10:03 AM']My point was how good are the guys in the first place if their career was pretty much the one gig with a band that sold quite a few albums over a few years and then went quiet. And then they pop up on the Euro scene doing a revival gig..long before reforming got fashionable in between running another business.

If theY haven't kept playing, then aren't going to be that on top of things...and if they didn't start from much of a grounding in the firsdt place, like their first gig was lucky enough to break.. how good would they be now?

I am not talking about Gadd or the like..they have never stopped playing and you are talking creme anyway, but someone whose main gig has gone quiet or disintergrated, they have gone off to do other non-musical work and now gets the chance to play again for nostaligia and the venue will pay £5-10,000 or so to bring them all together..?

I can't really name the people I am thinking about so maybe this thread is done...but what I talking about is that an ex-name turns up at your pub...plays a few numbers on a borrowed kit...and then you wonder what all the fuss was all about.

5 guys, I am talking about..in the last few years. and you wouldn't book any of them to do your gig.

Are we more impressed with the 'name' than the player..??[/quote]
In a lot of cases, name is spot on because you have your loyal fans who will listen to their hero deteriorate over the years and still give rave reviews out of that sense of loyalty. There have been lots of very famous names over the years who have brilliant studio albums, but very poor live performance, but the disciples seem to be f*****ng deaf!

[dmccombe7]

JTUK
We touched on this on another thread a few weeks back.
You've explained your thinking better this time and can see your point more clearly and would agree.

If a drummer has been mediocre to start with, gets a lucky break to provide him with a recognised name for a few albums / tours and then disappears or takes a break for yrs to re-imerge and attempt a comeback is probably gonna fail for reasons you stated earlier.
If he hasn't improved over the years or kept himself in shape then chances are he won't be up to scratch nowadays.

That would probably go for most musicians. If you haven't kept up to speed with new techniques, skills and general exercise then you will find it hard to compete with the guys who have put the effort in over the years.

Don't think its an age thing though but more of a commitment issue.
Even though i took a break from bands now and again i kept playing and learning new styles.
I'm not the worlds best bass player by any means but i have improved over the years.
Maybe i wasn't great to start with

Dave