Soundchecks - are they professional?

[ASW]

We have a difference of opinion in a  band I'm in and was interested in the general consensus on this matter. I will try to state both side's case neutrally so as not to sway the argument.

 

The scenario is that in the venues we play (pub and social club) there will already be people in the room when we are setting up. The question is whether we should carry out a full volume soundcheck before we start playing. Only the three vocals and keys are going through the small PA. The drums, two guitars and bass are not. The arguments are as follows:

 

1. As there are already people in the room, it doesn't look/sound very professional to do a soundcheck before the gig start, especially at full volume. We will still do a check on each of the instruments individually. As long as we keep the levels the same on our amps gig to gig, then there should not be a problem.

 

2. A full soundcheck should be carried out at all gigs to ensure that the sound is the best it can be. It is more professional to do a 5 minute soundcheck before the gig to ensure all levels are good than it is for the sound to not be balanced or too loud for the whole gig.

 

All opinions welcome!

Edited yesterday at 11:11 by ASW

[cheddatom]

Option 2 every time. You can't sound check at low levels as you won't hear the low end. You have to sound check at gig level. No need for 5 minutes though! Line-check everything then do 30 seconds of a section of a song where everything gets used (IE don't check the verse without BVs, check the chorus with BVs). 

[Twigman]

Looking at the itinerary for our next gig in Rotterdam on 18th may we have 2 hours scheduled for load in and soundcheck.

I can't imagine ever doing a gig with just a linecheck but then I suppose I'm playing a different kind of venue.

[Chaosanator]

Agreed with the above, a full but brief sound check every time.

[Beedster]

Went to a gig in a club in New Orleans. Sitting at the table at 7.55, band due on at 8.00. No sign of them. About 7.58, the band walks through the bar, onto the stage, gets out their instruments, plug in, and at 8.00 on the dot started their set. That's how to roll if you can 👍

[itu]

If (this is a big if) you have the right equipment, you could use RTA to make equalizing of the space every time. When that is fixed, the levels wouldn't be that big an issue to go through pretty quickly.

 

I think low level vs. gig level represent different things.

[Dood]

The trick in these circumstances is to make it not sound like a soundcheck. No fannying around or practicing riffs you should have tidied up in the rehearsal room. No annoying feedback or tuning up at full volume. Everyone is focussed and ready to do a very specific and planned sound check. 

A band I played in had the soundcheck rehearsed so we could get set up, and play something both useful to get our levels and fix any sound issues with the room, but also appear to give the punters a montage of tunes. (We used the same soundcheck plan to set up rehearsals too as it happens)

 

It helps if you have someone else doing sound "out front", but it is still more than manageable if the whole band is reading from the same page and actually helps rather than 'not being a team player'. As a side effect of turning up with this professional attitude is that you'll also help to bake the idea in to the heads of the punters that the band are gonna be really good and worth hanging around for. Nothing puts me off more than musicians who have no stage craft and p*ss around, not helping each other but still think they are great. 

 

/disclaimer, yes I've played festival stages and the toilet circuit where the engineer checks merely for some noise on the DI as a confirmation of bass tone lol.. It's not always perfect.

[Twigman]

We always do part of our soundcheck with the PA off.

This gives us a better idea of what the onstage mix is like as there isn't sound bouncing off the walls of the emptyish auditorium.

 

[wateroftyne]

Gigging in a pub? Soundcheck 'till you're happy.

Gigging in a ticketed venue? Be done and dusted before they let people in.

...IMO, of course.

[LeftyJ]

I have done many gigs with 4 or 5 originals bands playing the same stage on the same evening, where it is often impossible for all the bands to do a full soundcheck because of time limitations. Often the choice is made to only soundcheck the band that uses the most inputs on the mixing desk. The previous band I was in usually played without amps and cabs on stage. We had two guitarists with stereo setups, my bass (single XLR), a backing track with backing vocals and synths and a pretty basic drum kit with kick, snare, 4 toms, hi-hat and just a few cymbals. We brought our own monitoring rack that had everything except the drums plugged into it, and from there to front of house. The only drawback to that was the XLRs for the other bands still had to go to their gear and mics. We were often complimented for being so easy to mix and to balance well. Therefore we weren't afraid to play without a soundcheck, a linecheck would often suffice and well within the first 30 seconds of the first song everything would be fine. We did prefer to do a full soundcheck though - and we always tried to be disciplined, without unnecessary noodling.

Edited yesterday at 11:48 by LeftyJ

[Mickeyboro]

23 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Went to a gig in a club in New Orleans. Sitting at the table at 7.55, band due on at 8.00. No sign of them. About 7.58, the band walks through the bar, onto the stage, gets out their instruments, plug in, and at 8.00 on the dot started their set. That's how to roll if you can 👍

Love the way they play and move on up the road.

 

It was in New Orleans I realised the purpose of the bass solo in the penultimate song. It’s to let the guitarist pass round the bar with the tip jar😂

 

Now, back on topic…

[Hellzero]

Second option, but more as a line check, which should be more than enough, except if the band is an association of puerile egos...

[Dood]

4 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

Love the way they play and move on up the road.

 

It was in New Orleans I realised the purpose of the bass solo in the penultimate song. It’s to let the guitarist pass round the bar with the tip jar😂

 

Now, back on topic…

 

I wonder if that is where the quote about ensuring that you make every note count comes from? ha ha! 

[Lozz196]

My preference is for soundcheck mainly to get monitor levels sorted, I hate seeing bands go, after every song “I need more attack in the upper mids in the outer quadrants of the snare drum” stuff, to me either sort it at a soundcheck or live with it.

 

Which leads me to, my current band don’t like soundchecks, so it’s usually go on, live with it and know that the sound engineer will do their best. 
 

 

[Lozz196]

39 minutes ago, Twigman said:

We always do part of our soundcheck with the PA off.

This gives us a better idea of what the onstage mix is like as there isn't sound bouncing off the walls of the emptyish auditorium.

 

That’s a great idea, don’t think I’ve ever done this but def one for the memory bank.

[Beedster]

47 minutes ago, Mickeyboro said:

Love the way they play and move on up the road.

 

It was in New Orleans I realised the purpose of the bass solo in the penultimate song. It’s to let the guitarist pass round the bar with the tip jar😂

 

Now, back on topic…

 

People pay up to bring a quick end to the bass solo  

[Happy Jack]

My covers band has started every gig for the last 15 years with the same song. All three of us sing, so we take a verse each.

 

Three minutes into the gig, our sound engineer @Silvia Bluejay has heard all three vocal mics, guitar, bass and drums (usually with everything going through the PA as well as backline) and our sound is sorted for the rest of the set.

 

The audience (pub / club / festival / whatever) has no clue that they just heard our soundcheck.

[acidbass]

Option 2 for me.  Whilst I agree it might appear unprofessional, it would be even more unprofessional to go onstage for 2+ hours with a terrible live sound. 

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

My covers band has started every gig for the last 15 years with the same song. All three of us sing, so we take a verse each.

 

Three minutes into the gig, our sound engineer @Silvia Bluejay has heard all three vocal mics, guitar, bass and drums (usually with everything going through the PA as well as backline) and our sound is sorted for the rest of the set.

 

The audience (pub / club / festival / whatever) has no clue that they just heard our soundcheck.

 

That is the way to do it mate, I'm sure that's pretty much what the band I saw in New Orleans did also. 

 

I find that for most of the bands I've been in, the soundcheck has been at best an unnecessary ritual (I've always advocated for Jack's approach), at worst an ego trip for one or more of the band who want to show anyone in the room that they're of higher status (in their own minds) than the rest of the band; the singer (usually) or guitarist (if it's not the singer) who whinges incessantly about his levels, tone, FX etc while the soundperson plays with the DFA knob and nods agreeably..... 

[Lozz196]

There is the other thing as well though, the rehearsal soundcheck, where a band who have a name but clearly don’t get together aside from at gigs go through their whole set - or at least a large part of it - at soundcheck, working out what chords they are, what key it’s in etc.

 

After getting there an hour late.

 

And then the support band get 5mins to get levels right.

[Dan Dare]

A soundcheck is essential when the person mixing is also playing, because it's nigh on impossible to fix things on the fly or even hear if anything is amiss unless it's really obvious or glaring. As others point out, it should be brief (no noodling, practicing in public, etc).

 

If there are people in the venue, I set up individual channels on cans, then play a swift burst of a recording I'm familiar with through the PA to check the FoH sound. Then we announce that we're doing a soundcheck, the band plays and I have a quick walkaround (playing via my wireless) to check all's well and make any adjustments needed. Only takes a few minutes.

 

Better that than trusting to luck.

[tauzero]

For us, playing pubs with a vocal-only PA, soundcheck - two verses and choruses of a song using BVs. Checks that the vocals are balanced and the instruments are balanced with each other and the drums. Seeing as most of the time we have to eject people from their seats in order to set up, we're never going to get to soundcheck in an empty room. And we do a song that everyone will know and we do well, so those already there may have their interest piqued enough to remain (unless they're sulking at being ejected from their seats).

[Silvia Bluejay]

2 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

My covers band has started every gig for the last 15 years with the same song. All three of us sing, so we take a verse each.

 

Three minutes into the gig, our sound engineer @Silvia Bluejay has heard all three vocal mics, guitar, bass and drums (usually with everything going through the PA as well as backline) and our sound is sorted for the rest of the set.

 

The audience (pub / club / festival / whatever) has no clue that they just heard our soundcheck.

The same happens with the 1950s rock 'n' roll band, but we didn't go through a phase of actually playing an extra song 10 minutes before the start. (Audiences tended to think the gig had begun in earnest. )

 

What is extremely important, and we can't do without in any band, is a line check. I'm fast enough in fixing any problems to the actual sound once the gig has started, but if I'm missing signal from a channel or a speaker that's another matter, and the performance has to be interrupted, which does look unprofessional.

 

[dave_bass5]

Also running our own small PA with just vocals/keys and kick drum going through it.

We try and arrive at an earlier time if doing Social clubs. Sometimes the room is closed so it's fine, other times there are people in it so we have to look professional about it. This is where most of my band struggle. Setting gear up on stage but not turning it on, making sure it's all connected etc until the moment we all stand up there for a sound check. 

Ive also been fighting to get my lead guitarist to play for the audience and not himself. He angles his combo towards his head/ceiling. When I ask him to turn it up so it can be heard out front, I get 'then it's too loud'. No bloody idea!!!. 

 

So yeah, 2, but done in a professional way, but sometimes the result is as if it were option 1 anyway. 

[dave_bass5]

3 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

That’s a great idea, don’t think I’ve ever done this but def one for the memory bank.

I tend to have our PA speakers facing inwards until we are ready to do a full sound check. It just saves anyone out in the room listening to ( '1...2..is it on?...I can't hear myself....yeah the switch on my mic is set to on, oh wait....)