Is it time to quit the band, or not?

[zero9]

1 hour ago, Storky said:

I’d go with that! 👍 “whenever there are problems in a band, a guitarist is always close to hand” (IMHO 😉)

…closely followed by the singer…

[MacDaddy]

If you do leave, make sure that before you leave you get back any equipment of yours that the band use, or that you may have lent to other band members.

I speak from experience...

[uk_lefty]

Having made the same difficult decision myself recently I'd say the fact you're even contemplating it means it doesn't look like there's much of a future. You could have a band meeting to give it the rallying cry of getting a better idea of what you are: a guitar/ fiddle and vocals trio who sometimes add a rhythm section or a full band that sometimes does stripped down sets, or a full band take it or leave it? What are you as a band, what type of gigs do you want, what do the punters respond best to (it's not always the songs the singer insists on doing because they're his or her favourite), what do you want to be known for? I was in a band for five and half years and became great friends with my bandmates, but I'd still struggle to describe what that band was: it wasn't "rock n soul" but so hard to describe when trying to get gigs in new places. We had no drive or direction and just played the same handful of gigs year on year with anything new treated with suspicion if certain members hadn't brought it up. That was already creating a divide. Incidentally, it was them booking a gig knowing I wasn't available that sealed it for me. 

 

And now almost six months down the line they've agreed to do a gig but they still don't have a bass player. I've been asked to dep, four weeks in advance, but I have other commitments so can't do it. Seems the person behind all that just hasn't learned. Bad habits don't just disappear.

[OliverBlackman]

Gigging/ rehearsals ect is a big effort, especially when only for a hobby. If on top of that the band doesn’t value what you bring to mix as a person, there’s no way I’d bother. 

[SH73]

19 hours ago, Storky said:

I play upright bass in an acoustic band. It was formed by the guitarist and I was 2nd one in. Guitarist is very limited so I recruited fiddle player to add some lead. We also have drums/percussion. Female vocals have recently changed; guitarist chose her without consultation with rest of band and in my opinion she is also limited. Fiddle player loves it and is getting loads of gigs, guitarist loves that fiddle has improved the sound and is getting gigs. They are now getting gigs when I’m not available (I’ve missed last three) and it seems they are quite happy to go ahead without me. Guitarist has admitted she can’t hear the bass anyway, so I don’t think I’m much valued. So question is should I stay, or should I go? Waste of time, or worth sticking with it?

Can't hear or has she got selective listening? You need to ask yourself if you still enjoy it and is it worth it?

[Newfoundfreedom]

I don't usually comment on this type of thread. At the end of the day it's down to the individual to make up their own minds. The fact that they bothered to post in the first place usually means they already have, and are just looking for someone to talk then out of it. 

 

There's often musical differences in a band that can someone's be hard to overcome. I can live with that. If it's something that makes the band better overall then it's worth the work. 

 

In this instance though, it's the absolute lack of respect for your skill and contribution that would be the final nail in the coffin for me. It sounds like the rest of the band (or at least half of them) couldn't care less whether you're there or not. That would be plenty reason enough for me to walk. 

[Len_derby]

As alluded to by @ChrisB above have you investigated whether you are, in fact, too quiet? I think I’d have been asking audience members what it sounds like out-front and getting some live recordings to listen to.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck!

[Nicko]

20 hours ago, Storky said:

I play upright bass in an acoustic band. It was formed by the guitarist and I was 2nd one in. Guitarist is very limited so I recruited fiddle player to add some lead. We also have drums/percussion. Female vocals have recently changed; guitarist chose her without consultation with rest of band and in my opinion she is also limited. Fiddle player loves it and is getting loads of gigs, guitarist loves that fiddle has improved the sound and is getting gigs. They are now getting gigs when I’m not available (I’ve missed last three) and it seems they are quite happy to go ahead without me. Guitarist has admitted she can’t hear the bass anyway, so I don’t think I’m much valued. So question is should I stay, or should I go? Waste of time, or worth sticking with it?

You've listed lots of reasons why you are unhappy and none why you want to stay with this band.  If it's your band sack the guitarist and singer, if not time to move on.

[Delberthot]

16 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

If everyone bar one can do a date, it has to be greatest good for the greatest number. The one who can't make it isn't really in a position to expect the others to miss out. 

 

I used to dep with a wedding band that were so busy that if they got 2 gigs on the same night the guitarist would do one of the gigs with dep drummer, dep bass and dep keys as a second version of the band and the keyboard player would play guitar with the main band.

 

I used to play mainly in the one that was all deps. it was good fun and zero pressure

[Storky]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Having made the same difficult decision myself recently I'd say the fact you're even contemplating it means it doesn't look like there's much of a future. You could have a band meeting to give it the rallying cry of getting a better idea of what you are: a guitar/ fiddle and vocals trio who sometimes add a rhythm section or a full band that sometimes does stripped down sets, or a full band take it or leave it? What are you as a band, what type of gigs do you want, what do the punters respond best to (it's not always the songs the singer insists on doing because they're his or her favourite), what do you want to be known for? I was in a band for five and half years and became great friends with my bandmates, but I'd still struggle to describe what that band was: it wasn't "rock n soul" but so hard to describe when trying to get gigs in new places. We had no drive or direction and just played the same handful of gigs year on year with anything new treated with suspicion if certain members hadn't brought it up. That was already creating a divide. Incidentally, it was them booking a gig knowing I wasn't available that sealed it for me. 

 

And now almost six months down the line they've agreed to do a gig but they still don't have a bass player. I've been asked to dep, four weeks in advance, but I have other commitments so can't do it. Seems the person behind all that just hasn't learned. Bad habits don't just disappear.

Yes, I think you’re right about the “trio with optional rhythm section vs 5 piece that can do stripped down gigs. It started as the later, now looking much more like the former 🤔

[Storky]

1 hour ago, OliverBlackman said:

Gigging/ rehearsals ect is a big effort, especially when only for a hobby. If on top of that the band doesn’t value what you bring to mix as a person, there’s no way I’d bother. 

Agree it’s a lot of work, which I don’t mind but then they’re not fussed if I play or not so it’s a bit deflating. Guitarist suggested I skip rehearsals to save the work for me. She says “you can just fit in” completely missing the point that I would want to learn the songs properly to do them (and myself) justice.

[Nail Soup]

One thing to bear in mind is that broadly acoustic music is different to electric music, in terms of missing instruments.

An electric rock band would sound rubbish if the bass player or drummer where missing. With an acoustic band it's more like any line-up can work. I've seen the folk artist Sam Kelly a few times.... he goes out with any number of musicians, him plus seven, three ,two or one etc.

 

[Storky]

1 hour ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I don't usually comment on this type of thread. At the end of the day it's down to the individual to make up their own minds. The fact that they bothered to post in the first place usually means they already have, and are just looking for someone to talk then out of it. 

 

There's often musical differences in a band that can someone's be hard to overcome. I can live with that. If it's something that makes the band better overall then it's worth the work. 

 

In this instance though, it's the absolute lack of respect for your skill and contribution that would be the final nail in the coffin for me. It sounds like the rest of the band (or at least half of them) couldn't care less whether you're there or not. That would be plenty reason enough for me to walk. 

Yep, I think you’ve got it. I don’t think it’s malicious though, just a total lack of understanding from the guitarist as to what bass is or what it does. She has said she likes double bass though, because it looks good! (Says it all really)

[Storky]

8 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

One thing to bear in mind is that broadly acoustic music is different to electric music, in terms of missing instruments.

An electric rock band would sound rubbish if the bass player or drummer where missing. With an acoustic band it's more like any line-up can work. I've seen the folk artist Sam Kelly a few times.... he goes out with any number of musicians, him plus seven, three ,two or one etc.

 

That’s a fair point. Like many I’ve come from  electric bands in the past.

[Newfoundfreedom]

12 minutes ago, Storky said:

Yep, I think you’ve got it. I don’t think it’s malicious though, just a total lack of understanding from the guitarist as to what bass is or what it does. She has said she likes double bass though, because it looks good! (Says it all really)

 

Whether it's malicious or not doesn't really make a difference (or at least it wouldn't to me) it all comes down to self respect at the end of the day. If you are aware of the value you bring, and other people aren't, and / or they're not even willing to consider it, then it's a one sided relationship, and that never works. Whether that's in a band, in a job, or in a relationship. There's most likely any number of bands out there looking for a good bass player who would feel absolutely privileged to have you. 

 

Don't sell yourself short. 

[Phil Starr]

This is clearly the guitarist's band, certainly in their head and in reality too if he is recruiting singers without discussion. If said guitarist is doing all the work of running the band and getting the gigs too then it's not an unusual situation.  You've said yourself he's a limited musician but organising is a skill too. I'm a great believer that the person doing all the work get's to make most decisions, though it's a lot better if they also listen. To views that is you'll rarely get the majority of musicians to listen to others

 

I've been in bands where I was just the bass player and others where I've run things. It's a PITA when everybody leaves it to you and moans at anything that doesn't go the way they want. It's great when someone else does all the hard work and you just have to play. It's greatest when everyone just talks to and trusts each other. The worst though is when the band has an unacknowledged leader and fills up with internal politics. It sounds like that is perhaps what is going on. Have you tried talking to the guitarist? Not about his playing, that won't go well  It may be that he is just grabbing at solutions to keep going, find singer, find dep for bassist who hasn't made three gigs in a row. He may well just regard the rest of the band as just a way of getting to play himself. Or not.

 

How do the rest of the band feel? Might be worth talking to them.

 

If you enjoy the music then maybe just relax and let them organise, it is a load of unrewarding work after all. Do you have other options? Quitting a band with nothing to go to is rarely a good move. If the band politics is spoiling it for you then it's for you to make the decision. 

 

[Nail Soup]

24 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

I've seen the folk artist Sam Kelly a few times.... he goes out with any number of musicians, him plus seven, three ,two or one etc.

On the topic of Sam Kelly and bass, here's a story which you may not want to share with your band mates.....

I saw Sam Kelly at a festival with a reduced line up with no bass instrument. Yet many of the songs had a good bass presence.

The band announced that after the gig they would be in the tent next door selling/signing merch. Mrs Soup wanted a signed CD, so I went and got it. I took the opportunity to ask about he bass. They confirmed what I had thought.... a couple of them had those pedals which add bass (not always on).

I guess the OP's bandmate may not have heard it though!

[Rich]

OT for a second...

12 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

If you do leave, make sure that before you leave you get back any equipment of yours that the band use, or that you may have lent to other band members.

I speak from experience...

Did you ever get a resolution of that in the end? Things were moving from what I recall of our last exchange. PM if you'd rather not say publicly.

[Storky]

39 minutes ago, Rich said:

OT for a second...

Did you ever get a resolution of that in the end? Things were moving from what I recall of our last exchange. PM if you'd rather not say publicly.

The band usually use my PA when we play as a five, but I keep it at my place. When they’ve done gigs without me they manage with a Bose S1 and a AER guitar combo.

[pete.young]

9 hours ago, Nail Soup said:

 They confirmed what I had thought.... a couple of them had those pedals which add bass (not always on).

 

Boss OC3, or OC5 if you can get one.

[pete.young]

Storky, you're an upright  bass player. They need you more than you need them. Even if they don't realise it, someone else will.

[SteveXFR]

Are the guitarist and singer not hearing you because of where they are on stage? All that matters is whether the audience can hear you.

I like the previous suggestion about giving it some Billy Sheehan on the electric bass guitar. I'd also add some fairly disgusting fuzz and a wah in to that as well.

[fretmeister]

 

Problem solved.

[MacDaddy]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

 

Problem solved.

But what about the other side of the stage? 😉

[mikel]

Its simple really, and no need to go in circles. Do you like the music the band plays, and, do you get on with the other members? If the answer to one of those is no, then leave. Life is too short.