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Band frictions


GreeneKing

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On 05/12/2021 at 08:03, GreeneKing said:

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. 
I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. 
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

Unfortunately, you're dealing with a surfeit of ego and one where that ego is more important than the music. If he's not open to sensible discussion, there's only one way it's going. I suspect "other musicians are OK with it" translates as dealing with it was deemed too difficult. I really don't understand how he expects other players to telepathically determine what he's doing. It's an outrageous level of selfishness. 

Edited by zbd1960
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On 05/12/2021 at 03:03, GreeneKing said:

He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay ...that we’re musically incompatible...
 

Sadly...it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

This situation was fragile indeed, and it seems that was going to happen in a minute anyway.

There will be other opportunities to play, it doesn't take but a word gone in the right ear to open a door.

The fact that you're not with him anymore will speak well for you.

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His attitude pretty much describes the difference between a guitarist and a musician who plays guitar.

 

One listens to what everyone is doing and plays something to fit, aiming to create something as one band of musicians which will sound great.

 

The other is a self obsessed clown, who doesnt listen to anyone else or anything else that's going on - regardless of skill level on their own instrument, they are no use to a 'band'.

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6 hours ago, cetera said:

Come on, lets get this to 12 pages. The lead guitarist is coming out of his solo now and it looks like it could end quickly at 11 with no warning and that unevenness in structure will sound rubbish.....!

 

 

Now we’re steamin’ towards page 13. That’ll totally ruin it again… aaarrrgghh!

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Well it has all disintegrated. Fallen apart in an apparently convivial manner but from the ‘we wish you all the best in your musical direction’ messages I guess I rocked the boat against the ‘boss’ and that wasn’t acceptable. 
I wonder if they already have a replacement in mind? 
I feel that I’ve been reasonable in my questioning of the inconsistent structure  of some songs and how this left me exposed musically. This thread has helped me see that my thoughts on this are valid. Sadly it created I situation where I became the problem. 
Im a little gutted that it ended this way I guess but sometimes we have to stick with our position. 

Peter

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It's never nice when something 'dies' like this but try to see the upside; you'll no longer be wasting your time with a bedroom guitarist dictator.  Get out there, hit some jamnights, watch some bands, have some fun and then get back on the pony when the time is right.

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29 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

Well it has all disintegrated. Fallen apart in an apparently convivial manner but from the ‘we wish you all the best in your musical direction’ messages I guess I rocked the boat against the ‘boss’ and that wasn’t acceptable. 

 

That was always a possible / probably outcome.

 

29 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

I feel that I’ve been reasonable in my questioning of the inconsistent structure  of some songs and how this left me exposed musically. This thread has helped me see that my thoughts on this are valid. Sadly it created I situation where I became the problem. 

Im a little gutted that it ended this way I guess but sometimes we have to stick with our position.

 

We do. You weren't in a situation that was any good, which was basically being a backing band to the guitarists ego in practice sessions. That would have continued and stayed the same.

While you know what you want, put some feelers out, put stuff on JoinMyBand (I know everyone complains about it but I have got 2 bands through it) and see if you can get a gigging band together, that is where you want to head, and that was not the direction the other band wanted to go.

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Funnily enough I have the problem of trying not to be always leaving bands. In the past I always ended up talking myself into walking out. I've come to recognise it as a character defect, an instinct for self sabotage which blighted my life.

However if people in a band were genuinely behaving outrageously towards me I'd not hang around.

 

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1 hour ago, stewblack said:

Funnily enough I have the problem of trying not to be always leaving bands. In the past I always ended up talking myself into walking out. I've come to recognise it as a character defect, an instinct for self sabotage which blighted my life.

However if people in a band were genuinely behaving outrageously towards me I'd not hang around.

 

Lot of wisdom in that, Stew, thanks for sharing. 

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I think we've all left bands, been chucked out of bands, been replaced, have bands fall apart on us.

 

It's the nature of the beast. You'd never grow as a musician if you didn't move around and play differrnt music  with different musicians. 

 

Just have to see it as an opportunity to try something new. 

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1 hour ago, TimR said:

I think we've all left bands, been chucked out of bands, been replaced, have bands fall apart on us.

 

It's the nature of the beast. You'd never grow as a musician if you didn't move around and play differrnt music  with different musicians. 

 

Just have to see it as an opportunity to try something new. 

yep, I’m a little gutted, especially since it feels like the blame has swung around in my direction. 
But I’ve learnt that my standards are higher than some others. 

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24 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

But surely you realised that was always going to happen? 

 

 

Not always. I think it's like any relationship, you think if you work at it enough the other person may sort themselves out...

 

It's only with experience you learn to spot the signs early. 

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32 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

Not always. I think it's like any relationship, you think if you work at it enough the other person may sort themselves out...

 

It's only with experience you learn to spot the signs early. 

 

In this case, I think that it was pretty obvious how it was going to play out.

 

If you work for a small company where things are not working as well as you think they should, you don’t go and confront your boss and say ‘you’re rubbish and I want you to start doing things that I tell you to’. You either leave (maybe set up in competition) or you try to start changing the culture of the company in small ways to help improve things. It doesn’t matter if you are in the right or not, they are just going to get someone else to do your job. They might go bust as a result or they might prosper with your replacement, but either way you have still lost your job and probably are not going to get a decent reference from them.

 

Equally, if you want to people to listen to you and do the things that you suggest, it helps if you have a track record of some sort and a decent CV that you can point to. Until you have got that behind you, there will always be some idiot who won’t be prepared to listen to you because they think that they know better. If you’ve played loads of gigs with some of the better players in town, then guys like this guitar player will be much more inclined to listen.

 

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Guitarists can be awkward,  just like anyone else.

 

I had one come into my old band and he actually complained that the other guitarist had more solos.  We actually at one point arranged both sets so they took turns and it showed the number of solos were roughly equal. I told him to grow up when he asked us to move our big finish songs around.  Thinking everything was sorted, we were at a gig and I caught him darting evil looks at our other guitarist and playing the odd deliberate bum chord under the solo. I took him outside at half time, threw him back onto a car bonnet and nearly yelled at him that the band wasn't about any of us. It was about all of us and if he didn't get it he could f off home right away. That cured him for a while until he did the decent thing and left.

 

They can moan about anything and everything, turn up last, be totally disinterested in new song suggestions and screw up tunes they don't care about. Complain about pay, venues, bass tone and volume.

 

Someone needs to sort the lead guitarist that the OP mentioned out. A band that is struggling to make sense of what one of them is doing is just uncomfortable and it won't get better if he just does whatever comes into his head on any given night.

 

Having to be taken outside to calm down when told that he is throwing the band's performance. Personality disorder. He will never be an asset to any band while he does that.

 

I had a drummer who asked me if I wanted to take it outside, when I wanted to put some music through the PA instead of the same 80's clunge that we endured for a couple of years. It was such a relief to get out of that group.

 

Life is too short to play with idiots.

Edited by 12stringbassist
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7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Messages plural? Singer and guitar hero. Anyone else?

Drummer, who i suspect is in communication with the lead and his bro. 
These aren’t bad folk. We started out as a jamming setup, no ‘boss’ as such. 
Then I got us a gig!
The lead plays too loud. He also plays by feel meaning that his song structures can be loose and inconsistent in some songs. He can’t or won’t deal with that. He gets threatened when I raise it as an issue and has gone off on one again. 
End of really  :)
 

Edited by GreeneKing
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