Hard-To-Please Bandmates

[willgatesbass]

Hi all - this subject probably belongs in the gear section in some ways but the main issue is with communication from my colleagues. 

I'm in the very fortunate position of being a fairly new bass player that has landed a very cool, well-paid, full-time job with a great UK party band. They happen to be my best friends, which is probably why (when their last bass player resigned) I was offered the position instead of someone more skilled/ experienced. This is particularly jammy as my first instrument is the drums and I had only been playing bass for a year when they asked me. I guess this is my lucky break and I'm very grateful for it. They are very happy with the way I conduct myself in all aspects of the band, and despite regular mistakes, they are sympathetic and patient about the fact that I am still basically a beginner.

Sorry for the long intro but I feel it kind of sets the tone for what I'm struggling with.

We have a great PA and we're all on in-ears. The logical thing to do would be to use a pre-amp pedal or similar with no amp onstage. I've tried this in the past and although I'm generally happy with what I get in my ears, my drummer and guitarist often complained that they missed the rumble of an amp onstage. The guitarist in particular complains about not being able to feel any bass, yet won't have any of me in his in-ear mix for fear of muddying his guitar/ vocal monitoring. On the other hand, when I buy an amp, they often complain about it's size and weight. To add to the problem, a sound-engineer we often use rarely lets me use any volume with the amp which rather defeats the object. 

The communication problem comes when I try to discuss gear solutions with them. It probably comes across as bass-geekery when all I'm really trying to do is discuss a solution for amplifying the bass that pleases everyone. They are uninterested when I bring the subject up, but when I buy something new to try, they are very quick to speak up about what they don't like about it. 

I have just bought an amp which I'm really happy with. It is on the heavy side but I have a folding trolley which makes it very easy to move. It is certainly no bigger or heavier than the RCF subs we load in at every gig! Anyways, this new amp is certainly being enjoyed by everyone. It sounds killer and gives everyone a great feeling on stage. As predicted though, the complaints about it's size are already coming in. I'd like to add that I've owned a few very powerful lightweight rigs which avoided this issue but still didn't get around the sound engineer killing all my volume. 

I have distant memories of being in an originals band with a great bass player. The guitarists and I would often listen to each other with great interest about the type of gear we were using but when he tried to talk about his gear, we'd all generally switch off! lol. Is this a universal thing for bass players? If it is, I suppose I'm getting my comeuppance!

Anyone experienced anything similar? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how to read what my band mates want. For the last year, I've had a silly amount of gear coming and going and it would  be nice to settle on something.

 

 

[12stringbassist]

Ask them for suggestions.

[12stringbassist]

The size of a rig doesn't matter unless you can't all it on the stage.

 

[EBS_freak]

they want a Woojer each... and you can leave your amp at home again.

[Dad3353]

If there are foldback monitors, get some bass put into them for general stage bass presence, fed from the PA. You'll not be needing an amp at all, then. If all are using in-ear monitoring, get some bass put in there for them (dosed as they require...) That's what they're for. It can't interfere with what they already have any more than having it rumbling through from an amp on stage, which they can't adjust. If they're not happy with that solution, get your own monitoring sorted (in-ears, preferably...), let the sound engi do whatever he needs to do for FOH and on-stage monitoring, and sod anyone else. If they don't want to do things properly, they'll have to put up with it, and that's all. Don't go buying gear for idjits that won't play the game loyally. 

[skidder652003]

WTF? Tell em to mind their own gear and let you get on with yours!

[EssentialTension]

3 hours ago, willgatesbass said:

... my drummer and guitarist often complained ... The guitarist in particular complains ... when I buy an amp, they often complain ...

... They are uninterested ... they are very quick to speak up about what they don't like about it. 

... As predicted though, the complaints about it's size are already coming in. ...

If it was me I would be looking for another band that actually valued my presence.

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

If there are foldback monitors, get some bass put into them for general stage bass presence, fed from the PA. You'll not be needing an amp at all, then. If all are using in-ear monitoring, get some bass put in there for them (dosed as they require...) That's what they're for. It can't interfere with what they already have any more than having it rumbling through from an amp on stage, which they can't adjust. If they're not happy with that solution, get your own monitoring sorted (in-ears, preferably...), let the sound engi do whatever he needs to do for FOH and on-stage monitoring, and sod anyone else. If they don't want to do things properly, they'll have to put up with it, and that's all. Don't go buying gear for idjits that won't play the game loyally. 

+1 from me. Says it all really.

I can appreciate you are inexperienced and newcomer to bass and see this as a great opportunity so i guess some sort of balance would be preferred.

Dave

[Frank Blank]

This is, I’ve found, very common with bands I’ve played for or worked with, small and big, not bearing about the bass player nor their gear, but some exceptions have been quite the opposite and those bands always sound the better for it. Any group of selfish individuals who are only concerned with their own sound and not the blend of those sounds is not only going to be a drag to play with but a drag to listen to as well. The simple fact of the matter is that the bass is as vital as every other instrument and as ‘of course’ as that sounds it is a) rarely acknowledged, let alone applied in practice and b) rarely defended or even mentioned by us bass players while singers, guitarists and drummers ruin everything because of ego and intransigence.

I no longer have any truck with people who do not understand the democracy of sonics and I am incredibly lucky to play with people who don’t bring ego to the stage nor the rehearsal room. It’s a difficult balance to strike, especially when egos are involved but stand your ground Sir, you and your bass are as important as every other element of the band, don’t get pushed around because you are new or consider yourself lucky

[skankdelvar]

I suppose it's a bit early in the game to tell them to go fück themselves with a traffic cone 

[jezzaboy]

Sound like a bunch of bankers to me. Especially the sound guy.

Why are they moaning about the size of the bass amp? Unless it`s a SVT and matching 8 x 10, what`s the problem?

[jezzaboy]

Just now, skankdelvar said:

I suppose it's a bit early in the game to tell them to go fück themselves with a traffic cone 

It`s never to early for that! 

[skankdelvar]

Just now, jezzaboy said:

It`s never to early for that! 

Good point well made 

[Frank Blank]

1 minute ago, skankdelvar said:

I suppose it's a bit early in the game to tell them to go fück themselves with a traffic cone 

I just spat coffee all over my iPad.

[dmccombe7]

I've a bad habit of having my bass too low in bands. Normally i can hear myself in front of my own rig and assume that's a good enough volume. Unless i move out front to check i just get on with the gig. 

The better bands i've played with have nearly always told me to turn up and the others that have just accepted it are usually the ones that don't care about the overall band sound. I nearly always go out front now to hear the overall balance of the band. Most times there is a FOH guy that takes care of things anyway but a good on stage balance can make a difference to the feel of the gig from a bands perspective.

Always go out front to hear the full band. Pick an appropriate song from your set list to play as a sound check if you can. Some gigs you simply don't get that luxury and its down to each individual to know what's needed.

I've never used in-ear monitors so no idea how the overall mix is done.

A good band will say to each other that something isn't just right.

Dave

[Delberthot]

7 hours ago, 12stringbassist said:

Ask them for suggestions.

The would be my first reaction as well - before spending lots of cash on trying various things for them to moan at, ask them what they would like. They've told you that they want to feel the bass but complained when you put an amp on stage so that they could feel the bass. It's like someone asking you to make a chocolate cake but that they don't want it to contain any chocolate, or be a cake

[Bigwan]

First off I wouldn't get yourself too upset. They're only simple guitarists/drummers after all. I like @EBS_freak's woojer suggestion, at least for the guitarist. Drummer might benefit from a buttkicker or some other kind of bass shaker. Wouldn't go buying them though. I'd suggest they do!

[Happy Jack]

Ultimately, it's your rig and you're the one playing through it.

Buy & use whatever makes you happy and allows you to hear yourself clearly.

When your bandmates criticise, smile politely and change the subject. When the sound engineer tells you to turn down, pretend to adjust one of the knobs, then play lightly for the next few minutes before reverting to exactly where you were before.

Basically, ignore them, but do it in a polite, non-confrontational way.

 

[Bigwan]

Just now, Happy Jack said:

Ultimately, it's your rig and you're the one playing through it.

Buy & use whatever makes you happy and allows you to hear yourself clearly.

When your bandmates criticise, smile politely and change the subject. When the sound engineer tells you to turn down, pretend to adjust one of the knobs, then play lightly for the next few minutes before reverting to exactly where you were before.

Basically, ignore them, but do it in a polite, non-confrontational way.

 

I think it's Lee Sklar who has a "producer switch" on his bass that does absolutely nothing, but if he gets the shout that something isn't right with the bass sound he flicks it in full view of said producer and invariably gets the nod...

[Happy Jack]

Also known as The DFA Filter ...

[chris_b]

If no one is happy with the bass sound, ask what the last payer used. I'm assuming they didn't moan about him on every gig.

Lay down the challenge and tell them you'll consider all suggestions but let them know the current situation and negative comments has to change. Tell them you want to make the band sound work and you need to like your sound as well (don't get into too much detail) so they should tell you what they prefer then shut up and leave you alone to develop your own sound. The traffic cone could be plan B.

[Muppet]

Issues around tone and volume I can accept (and these can be modified on the fly to accommodate band preferences ) as these need to be right, but size and weight?  Unless you've abdicated responsibility for shifting your own gear or you're taking up excessive amounts of room then I think the traffic cone solution is an appropriate response. 

I'd ask them what their requirements are (as opposed to asking them what their solution is) and what challenges they currently face, then come up with your solution that fits. 

[uk_lefty]

I'd find this quite demoralising. I don't understand why the size and weight is an issue unless they have to move or store it for you? And if it sounds good who cares? 

I'd try to ask questions to deconstruct their argument. Stand the drummer, guitarist and sound guy next to each other and say "right, I need to hear the bass either in ears, in a floor monitor or on stage, I don't care which. What do you three want?" And then they need to sort it out between them but you've been generous enough to be clear you'll take any of the three options. Then I'd say to whoever is moaning about the size and weight "it's ok though because I carry it on a trolley and I drive and store it myself... So why is the weight an issue?"  Wait for the lame excuses you can cut down easily.

You could come up with some carp about "but it gives me that Kev Fletcher sound!!... You know? Kev? Fletcher...? The jazz guy? My favourite bassist..." Because you've said jazz and favourite bassist they won't even Google it to know that Kev Fletcher is someone completely made up. Lots of us want the gear our heros had so maybe that would make them back off a bit?

[Happy Jack]

Kev Fletcher isn't real?

Say it ain't so ...

[EssentialTension]