leschirons Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1444434450' post='2883331'] wrong discipline [/quote] Well that's now two of us that don't know what you mean by "discipline" then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1444428306' post='2883285'] For some people on this website, gigging will be the last thing on Earth that they'd ever want to do.[/quote] Do they know gigging is fun? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1444462593' post='2883369'] Well that's now two of us that don't know what you mean by "discipline" then. [/quote] So it seems. When you play for yourself and to yourself, you can basically do what you want, you don't have to consider anyone..their style or sound or opnions ..anything. You aren't putting it through anyone's elses reference... you don't even need to consider if it is any good...i,e others like it and will put a value on it. You may not have discipline as you may not need it. You really have to have confidence in yourself to be in control of everything with no other sounding board...but then if you are just doing it for giggles ...then no one ever hear it..so you don't need to care. For me... that is a complete waste of time... but there you go. Music is all about what you can give to other people, IMO. so to take that part out of it..?? hmmm ..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazBeen Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Personally I would not want to be a bedroom player or a bassist in a band that never gigs. Why go through the effort, creative process and such and not share with others. But, horses for courses. Kate Bush is a great example of someone loving the studio and creative process but hating performing live. For me, be it with my orignals or cover projects, the 20 or so gigs in a "bad" year and 60 in a good year I have enjoyed over the last 25 years (41 now and still young in my eyes) have made my life so much richer. The people you meet, other band's music you hear, the fun and weird conversations you have, the friends I've made, venues played, the good and bad gigs, surprises etc etc have been a gift, never a chore. Very early on I realised that it would not be my fulltime profession due to - be it perceived or real - lack of stability, income and such. Heck maybe talent . But I love the fact that when my colleagues go home to watch Coronation Street I can look forward to being on stage, letting rip and getting rid of stress whilst knowing that the music pays for itself. Studio, instruments etc are all paid for by gigging. My kids come 1st, but I would not stop what I do for anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Guys that are addicted to golf are always trying new techniques and stance adjustments to play a better game. The gigging Bass guitarist is the same way in many respects. At a high level we're always striving for that killer night when we nail our approach, execution and tone. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1444464355' post='2883388'] So it seems. When you play for yourself and to yourself, you can basically do what you want, you don't have to consider anyone..their style or sound or opnions ..anything. You aren't putting it through anyone's elses reference... you don't even need to consider if it is any good...i,e others like it and will put a value on it. You may not have discipline as you may not need it. You really have to have confidence in yourself to be in control of everything with no other sounding board...but then if you are just doing it for giggles ...then no one ever hear it..so you don't need to care. For me... that is a complete waste of time... but there you go. Music is all about what you can give to other people, IMO. so to take that part out of it..?? hmmm ..?? [/quote] If I had never in my life, heard a live band that sounded like no-one in it cared what the hell it sounded like, I may have agreed with you but there are plenty out there who appear not to employ the "discipline" you speak of. One only need spend 5 minutes on You tube to see that there are a thousand bands out there who should be punished for crimes against humanity. To say that anyone making music in their bedroom for giggles (by which I assume you mean for their own pleasure) doesn't need to give any consideration as to whether it is good is a little shuttered. Good by who's judgement? Your definition of good? I'd guess that playing or composing music without the confines of whether others would deem it good has been a contributing factor in the evolutionary process of music and the production of some highly original and groundbreaking compositions. You're suggesting that only others can judge your music to be good or bad if indeed, "good and bad" exist. Leaving any financial issue aside, it would appear that many live musicians have an inherent need to be adored and ultimately accepted by their peers. Maybe, those who play for their own pleasure, do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 That thing I like doing that you don't do is better than that thing you do that I don't like doing.... So Nurrrr ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1444467087' post='2883424'] If I had never in my life, heard a live band that sounded like no-one in it cared what the hell it sounded like, I may have agreed with you but there are plenty out there who appear not to employ the "discipline" you speak of. One only need spend 5 minutes on You tube to see that there are a thousand bands out there who should be punished for crimes against humanity. To say that anyone making music in their bedroom for giggles (by which I assume you mean for their own pleasure) doesn't need to give any consideration as to whether it is good is a little shuttered. Good by who's judgement? Your definition of good? I'd guess that playing or composing music without the confines of whether others would deem it good has been a contributing factor in the evolutionary process of music and the production of some highly original and groundbreaking compositions. You're suggesting that only others can judge your music to be good or bad if indeed, "good and bad" exist. Leaving any financial issue aside, it would appear that many live musicians have an inherent need to be adored and ultimately accepted by their peers. Maybe, those who play for their own pleasure, do not. [/quote] If you don't put it out there..how would you know..? It is like me saying I can shoot 61 @ Augusta.. but not actually having any such proof I can. Not that it is that big a thing to me as they are an irrelevance, they aren't out on the circuit and no one knows they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I was a bedroom player for 12 months. Then I could afford to buy an amp and within a month started rehearsing in a band. I had 2 rules when I started; to play with the best people I could find and it didn't bother me what sized fish I was as long as I was in the biggest pool I could get into. For a large part of my life I've played original songs. I still play originals today, but playing them to an audience has always been the aim. This is only a discussion and I can understand why others would want to do things differently, but I know what they're missing, and to me that's the bit that makes it all worth while. C'est la vie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1444463609' post='2883378'] Do they know gigging is fun? Blue [/quote] FFS Blue, that's an opinion, not a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1444467087' post='2883424'] If I had never in my life, heard a live band that sounded like no-one in it cared what the hell it sounded like [/quote] Never seen guns and roses live then? Edit: - oh sorry missed the whole line of your post, so I agree. I have seen loads who appeared not to care! Edited October 10, 2015 by Woodinblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1444469995' post='2883455'] FFS Blue, that's an opinion, not a fact. [/quote] Blue, rather demonstrably, doesn't seem to know the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I’m with Blue (and others) here. Of course there is nothing wrong with being a bedroom player but to use Blue’s terminology, they are not ‘in the game’. I have a £150 classical guitar in the corner that I sometimes pick up to play a repertoire of about 10 pieces to an intermediate standard – that doesn’t make me a classical guitarist by any stretch of the imagination! Playing live in front of an audience (hopefully for remuneration) is part of a tradition going back to medieval minstrels that is at the core of what being a musician is about. It can be great fun, take you to new places / meet new people and be very rewarding in many ways (not just financially). But to get these benefits you have to get to be reasonably good, which of course is hard work. It is a different world to guys who never get out of the bedroom. Of course, there is nothing wrong at all with writing songs either. I know quite a few people who spend time writing, developing and demoing songs that they have a realistic chance of selling to a library, publisher or even an unknown artist. Of course you don’t have the immediate reaction of a crowd to let you know if you are any good or just wasting your time producing sub spotty teenage angst filled drivel…! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I think Blue explains himself very well and I can relate to some of his views and less so to others. I'm not bothered by the dividing line between opinions. It is different for everyone so I don't see why anyone should take umbrage in this or any other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Got no problems with Blues posts... we differ about the gigs we might be interested in. He thinks it starts and ends with gigs..and the more in his dairy the better... I think gigs are where it is at...but only if they fulfil a certain set of criteria... What is in the middle is banter. As for the bedroom debate...I never ever thought the idea was not to get beyond that..and as soon as possible. I haven't practiced and crafted for all these years just to end up with ..well, I think I'm ok.. I play with other people who can teach me things...if only if it is to be...'not like that'... As chris_b says...you try and be the best you can be, and you need that 'opinion' endorsed by people .. otherwise it means not a lot. If no one gets to hear your efforts..?? what is the point..? Any nobody knows anything about them anyway.. oh well..!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1444463609' post='2883378'] Do they know gigging is fun? Blue [/quote] For you and me, yes it is, but maybe not for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 If we're allowed to peek just a little bit above the parapet of this 'gigging bassist' microcosm, we could become aware of moult examples of people creating great, worthy works, in many fields, without necessarily having public acclamation as a major driving force, or even force at all. If I may advance two simple examples as meagre illustration, I'd propose Franz Kafka, recognised these days as having had some modicum of talent, and appreciated by many. His instructions were that his works were to be destroyed, to never be seen. The world would be a slightly lesser place without his contribution, I'd suggest. Another would be John Aubrey, a little-known and modest scholar in his day (Elizabethan England...) who made numerous forays into several areas of interest and curiosity, including geology and the beginnings of archaeology. He wrote, throughout his adult life, numerous diaries, with no intention whatever of publishing them. These documents went undiscovered until the '40s, when Oxford scholars came across an 'attic find'; they have been edited as 'Brief Lives', an astonishing vision of those times, written with perspicacity and erudition, and became the basis for a theatre play of the same name, played worldwide by the late Roy Doltice, a real treat. Aubrey was 'working' for his own benefit, modestly, with few resources and no public acclaim. Is it beyond our wit to imagine that possibly, just possibly, there could be similar ambitions (or lack of...) in the world of modern music..? I would hope it to be the case, and would deem it churlish at best, to disregard those folks who, in years to come, may well be hoisted far above many of today's supposed top players. Yes, public, live recognition has its merits and rewards, but that is far from the sole motivation for very many, who should not (imo...) be scorned nor looked down upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Words from the wise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Playing live has always been my ultimate goal and thus I've always gigged (never as much as I would like though). However, it ain't for everyone and when I have to pack up at the end of the night, get the gear in the car, drive home and then unpack it (again), normally in the wee small hours, the allure of being just a home/recording musician is tempting, especially if said gig has been a bit meh. If your playing gives you (and just you) pleasure then that's all good. If you feel the need to broadcast your talents to an audience (who will hopefully like it), then that's good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1444482838' post='2883584'] If we're allowed to peek just a little bit above the parapet of this 'gigging bassist' microcosm, we could become aware of moult examples of people creating great, worthy works, in many fields, without necessarily having public acclamation as a major driving force, or even force at all.... [/quote] During his lifetime Bach was much revered for his regular organ gigs - so I expect he was only too happy to get out of his bedroom. Yet his compositions caused little stir for most of a century - thus proving his bedroom activities were of of secondary, indeed little, importance. Does that sound correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4-string-thing Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Whilst gigging can be fun (or not) I don't see it as the ultimate musical experience that some of us do. I see it as a necessary evil (more often than not) in the circle of a musical career. I see it like this: 1: You buy an instrument. 2: You learn to play it a bit, in your bedroom. 3: You get some mates round who are also learning to play instruments, jam together, learn some covers and write some songs. 4: You form a band and start looking for gigs, because your songs deserve to be heard by the population. 5: You play some gigs. 6: Eventually, after playing loads of gigs, (some fun, some not so much fun) You are lucky enough to be offered a record deal. 7: You get to make records! This is the ultimate because once you have made your first album, you then go back to playing gigs to promote it. 8: You join Basschat, get GAS and end up at stage 1, buying instruments again... 9: 2 albums later, band splits coz you all hate each other and the main songwriter has lost his muse, and you return to.... 10: Playing your 5 or 6 basses in your bedroom.... Like I've said before, the right type of gigs with the right band can be an absolute joy. But the wrong type of gig with lazy, unprofessional, sub-standard bandmates can be an absolute nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1444485526' post='2883611'] During his lifetime Bach was much revered for his regular organ gigs - so I expect he was only too happy to get out of his bedroom. [/quote] I bet his neighbours were grateful as well. Those 64' stops can cause all sorts of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I've played in some places that were far away. Crap crowd, maybe bad payers, sound problems, broken strings, you name it, we had it go wrong for us. Would I change it? Would I f*~#! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1444470227' post='2883459'] Blue, rather demonstrably, doesn't seem to know the difference. [/quote] [i]"Tell Them Gigging Is Fun"[/i] Yes, it's merely my opinion. I have seen terms like discipline and self fulfillment to describe the bedroom [i]"noodler"[/i] experience. I say [i]"noodler"[/i] because I'm not talking about high end writing & home recording projects. You know, were talking about [i]"fun"[/i]. And both may very well be fun, however you would have a hard time convincing me that bedroom noodling is as much fun as a live gig. Blue Edited October 10, 2015 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1444506826' post='2883792']...you would have a hard time convincing me that bedroom noodling is as much fun[b], for me,[/b] as a live gig is [b]for me[/b]. Blue [/quote] Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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