hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 The regular bassist for a band I dep for is unavailable for a freebie music festival type gig they have been offered next summer. It's a fair trot away for a freebie (250 mile round trip) and as I work shift work, I will also have to take a nights leave. I've done freebies for them before, but they've been close and have landed on a day off rather than a work day. I have a feeling that the band see me more as the regular than the dep as by the end of this year I will have played more gigs with them than their regular. I'm normally an "anytime, anywhere" type player, but this type of sacrifice for zero return is beginning to wear a little thin. Do other bands who employ the services of deps pay them no matter what, even if it's a freebie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 So you are actually considering driving 250 miles and taking leave to do a gig as a favour for nothing? I wouldn't even have the balls to ask someone to do that, let alone expect it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1440978697' post='2855125'] So you are actually considering driving 250 miles and taking leave to do a gig as a favour for nothing? I wouldn't even have the balls to ask someone to do that, let alone expect it! [/quote] It's not expected as it's an enquiry only at this stage, but everyone else is on board apparently. I enquired whether it was paid or not, expecting what the answer would be and was told it wasn't as it is a "free to the public, not-for-profit music festival". This is despite having a "known/name" band as a headliner this summer. I'm sure they didn't do it for free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yes, the dep should be paid. When I have been in bands that do freebies, the freebies were seen as an investment that might lead to paid work. The dep doesn't have this expectation of future work and should therefore be paid. You may choose to be paid slightly less as a nod to the fact that other band members are paying you directly, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) I dont think there any sort of principal involved, its purely your personal choice and I wouldnt feel any obligation to take it. Leave it and let someone do it who is happy to do a an unpaid gig take it and everyone involved is a winner. I would say though that not-for-profit usually means that excess profit (i.e. profit remaining after paying some of the people) goes to charity - not the entire gross receipt, that is after all how many charities operate so some of the people involved will be getting paid something most likely (just possibly not some of the bands). Edited August 31, 2015 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yes, we'd definitely pay a dep in that type of situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 For that one at the very least expenses should be covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Paid. The gig is their obligation, not yours. If it is not signed up you need to decide whether to charge them or be unavailable. If you want to keep the job for later gigs you may have to weight one against the other. To avoid all this say you are unavailable on that date..work etc. Anyone who isn't stupid will get the picture, and you avoid it being 'uncomfortable' but also, as said above... who would expect this. FWIW, to support a charity bash, I paid the band. It isn't up to me to decide what they work for, so i paid them as i wanted them to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Definitely, we always pay our deps a minimum fee even if the rest of the band are each getting less than that themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadgie Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 that's taking the free thing too far (no pun) even for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yes, a dep should be paid but [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1440977284' post='2855120'] I have a feeling that the band see me more as the regular than the dep as by the end of this year I will have played more gigs with them than their regular. [/quote] doesn't seem like your normal hired gun situation. Maybe you're more a part of the band than you think and that's why they feel they can ask you to do this. As was said above I wouldn't have the balls to ask a "dep" to it Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1441005628' post='2855171'] For that one at the very least expenses should be covered. [/quote]+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Warren - this makes me wonder why the regular bass player is unavailable. Is it possible you are considering sacrificing more than perhaps he is in order to make it? But the bottom line is only you know how important it is going to be for you to do it - what, if any, repercussions there are going to be if you do or don't say yes. From an outside perspective my thoughts are that if, by agreeing to dep, you are likely to get a lot more paid work with the band then you could see it as an investment. If not then I personally feel it is taking advantage of your good nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1441005628' post='2855171'] For that one at the very least expenses should be covered. [/quote] This, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Totally your call as only you know the full ins and outs of the situation. Personally I never dep for free as the whole reason for depping for me is to earn. I wouldn't want to get a reputation as someone who'll dep for free because there's every chance I'll get bands trying to get me for lower rates as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think it's reasonable to offer it to you as an unpaid gig, equally it's reasonable for you to turn it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Very good points raised by all and I thank you. I haven't spoken with their regular, but I'm sure he wouldn't turn it down unless he genuinely couldn't make it. He plays all over the country in a well regarded tribute act. The deal with me is that he bails if the phone rings as long as I can backfill. It's worked very well thus far. This band is a very enjoyable one to play in and they are all close enough friends that I socialise with them outside gigs, so it's a tricky one. It just turns out that the sole wind player's brother is on the organising committee for this little outing, so you can see why this one grate's a little :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Question : Do you want the role of being the regular bass player in this band? If the answer is "yes", point out to them that you play more often than the "regular" and give a condition that if you play this one You become the regular and the other guy becomes the dep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1441012073' post='2855229'] Question : Do you want the role of being the regular bass player in this band? If the answer is "yes", point out to them that you play more often than the "regular" and give a condition that if you play this one You become the regular and the other guy becomes the dep. [/quote] I don't think I need to point that out. They know already. My view is that it's his band. He helped get it off the ground. I would step in full time if he left, but that's as far as it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I was paid and put up in a hotel for one dep gig I did. This is precisely why I say (see the other thread) bands should think very carefully about committing to low paid or free gigs. It really depends on what other plans you would have for the day and whether they'll give you a lift there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Definitely paid. Suppose something amazing happens on the back of this gig and suddenly the band are catapulted into the stratosphere. I bet the regular guy would be available then. They are taking the piss even asking you to do it for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'd be inclined to say I wasn't available. Having to use a days holiday to cover an unpaid gig for a band I'm not really in would be a bit much for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Dunky Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I don't think you should get paid for a freebie gig. Expenses maybe, but no fee. I wouldn't ask for a fee if the band weren't getting paid. And if I wanted paying for it, I just wouldn't do it. But then, I don't know why you would want to do this gig, either, under the curcunstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Deps are [i]always [/i]paid. Regardless of your desire or otherwise to be a permanent member of this band, if you allow this precedent then you will be seen as an easy touch and will be asked to play a lot more freebies, perhaps to the point of not being paid where previously you would have been. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot bass playing pole. Whatever that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I wonder if the pa company are supplying the pa free ? Or the sound engineers, or lighting, or riggers etc ? If you want to do it, I'd maybe ask for expenses, or arrange with someone from the band to give you a lift. I sceptical of these sort of things, someone somewhere is making money out of it, as has been pointed out, it's the profit that's going to charity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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