DJs at Festivals? WTF?

[Bilbo]

Acknowledging I am both an old fart and a Jazz nazi, I was just reading a BBC article about the demise of the nightclub (apparently they are closing at a rate not dissimilar to pubs). My attention was drawn to the fact that DJs are no w 'playing' festivals. I have to say that I have never 'got' the idea of a DJ as anything other than a bloke that plays records and the idea that these people are now appearing at festivals just leaves me aghast.

I only ever have contact with DJs when I do wedding gigs and they are almost always socially inadequate nerds who know an astonishing amount about the music of the 1960s and very little about holding a conversation, particulary if it is with a girl. Now, it appears, they are festival headliners. Has the world gone mad.

Oh - and apparently they class themselves as musicians. Can anyone of you youngsters explain all of this to an old feller?

[JTUK]

Nope.
Some of the tunes can be catchy but their is no live performance... altho you might get a couple of token guys onstage.

But basically...come and see my laptop..which is pretty standard if you talk via text all the time.

[r16ktx]

I am thinking of a new career where I will stand on a stage playing recordings of DJ's playing other people's recordings. I will call myself a DJJ... ;-)

[Wolverinebass]

I read recently that David Guetta lost his entire set for his most recent tour at an airport. It was on a pen drive. I'm sorry, just no. Get lost and take every overpaid non-musician, laptop wielding, bad Hawaiian shirted moron with you. I'm sure that most of these guys are really estate agents from Clapham and instead of having some really cool name they're probably all called Jasper. Which makes it even worse.

[ahpook]

I've heard Dylan's gone electric as well

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1439199570' post='2840660']
I am thinking of a new career where I will stand on a stage playing recordings of DJ's playing other people's recordings. I will call myself a DJJ... ;-)
[/quote]

Now this I like - A performance of recordings of people "performing" by standing behind a computer.

Wait . . . that sounds like 2/3 or more of what DJ's do!

[bassace]

Too right, too bloody right. Parasites all of them.

Well brought up, Bilbo, I feel better now.

[Roland Rock]

I love a good DJ set. These days it's much more than playing other people's records. The DJ will 'curate' (sorry Seashell) a load of songs, some more familiar than others, and can remix them with badass squelchy synth basslines and dancy beats (are you wincing yet Bilbo?).
The skill is getting the right songs, with the right feel of remix, in the right order, mixed (ie blended together) in fluid/interesting ways.
The desired result? A set which will get people having a great time and dancing their socks off.
Like a band set, or even a jazz solo, it has to retain interest, have buildups and also breathing space, and ultimately a climax. If they have done it right, people will leave at the end feeling exhilarated.

Another point to make is the visuals - it's not just a bloke at a record deck. The big DJ acts now tend to travel round with enormous sets/lightshows to the festivals.

Here's an example of a great 40 min set from superb 'ghetto funk' DJ Father Funk
http://soundcloud.com/father-funk/funk-aerobics
Given a choice of this or a Foo Fighters set, I know where I'd rather be!

Edited August 10, 2015 by Roland Rock

[Highfox]

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1439200730' post='2840675']
Too right, too bloody right. Parasites all of them.

Well brought up, Bilbo, I feel better now.
[/quote]

Me too thanks.
I remember some fun parties in the 80's when DJ's would toast over some good reggae tunes, that was about the dance and soundsystem
They just had some kind of DJ festival here, the videos I saw were people pumping fists to a stage full of monitor screens flashing bright images.
I just don't get it!

Should point out I was around for the rave thing as well and never really got that even when I was on one Prefer a band and live music,
Old Fart and proud.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1439198314' post='2840636']...
Oh - and apparently they class themselves as musicians. Can anyone of you youngsters explain all of this to an old feller?
[/quote]

One can try...

A decade or so ago, I was active in the organisation of our local festival (Les 3 Elephants; look 'em up..?); we had a quite avant-garde programmer who would find some excellent up-and-coming talent every year, most of whom became big a little later. End of evening would often feature a DJ-type set, and we saw many artists filling these slots. DJ Zebra, for instance, was an adept at mixing two very different disks, from contrasting horizons, and creating a third piece, entirely coherent; one wondered why the music hadn't been composed like that in the first place. Another that I remember was a group of 4 DJ artists, mixing 'live' with 2 turntables each, plus samplers, and playing, all 4, exactly as a band, with a rhythm section, melodies and solo spots, simply using disks as instruments. (Simply..? Oh, no, it's more difficult than that; it simply [i]looks [/i]simple when done by experts..!). While I can truly say that techno is not my favourite genre, I've seen some great performances and genuine creations at such events, and can't think of a better use of the term 'musician' to describe their prowess. It's not, in these situations, anything like a bloke playing top-ten hits, one after another just to keep the dancing going (although animation of a dance-floor is, in itself, a whole career for some, and many 'live' groups would love to be able to do the same...). It's maybe similar to having some say 'I can sing' because they stand up at wedding receptions to warble out a folk melody, and someone saying 'I can sing' when they're top of the bill at La Scala. There are very good DJs out there, doing some very fine creative work with disks and samples as their instruments. There are equally a shed-load of folks simply playing disks and messing about with jog-shuttle in random fashion. The good ones are, imo, very, very good.
Hope this helps.

[Bilbo]

I will watch that next time I am laid up with Lymes disease. It will make the time go faster.

[tinyd]

I am an old fart/jazz nazi but I do agree with @Roland that there's real creativity in picking records to play and then mixing them together to create a decent set. It's not the same as being a musician, but it doesn't detract from the fact that some of my favourite musical experiences have been while listening to DJs.

Having said that, there a line that sometimes gets crossed where the DJ gets a ton of credit for playing a particular old funk tune, say, and people seem to forget that the musicians who created that record are the ones who ultimately got people dancing.

[leschirons]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1439199570' post='2840660']
I am thinking of a new career where I will stand on a stage playing recordings of DJ's playing other people's recordings. I will call myself a DJJ... ;-)
[/quote]
[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1439200602' post='2840673']


Now this I like - A performance of recordings of people "performing" by standing behind a computer.

Wait . . . that sounds like 2/3 or more of what DJ's do!
[/quote]

So, a DJ covers DJ. Great idea. I can see money in this. I'm going to start a DJ tribute band with just me in it.

[Muzz]

I'd say that when done well it's a real skill, a real musical talent, more akin to production and engineering than actually playing the instruments, perhaps, but within it's genre completely valid.

After all, isn't jazz just a lot of old blokes making it up as they go along for a bunch of people sitting down and nodding? Dreadful.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1439203405' post='2840715']
I'd say that when done well it's a real skill, a real musical talent, more akin to production and engineering than actually playing the instruments, perhaps, but within it's genre completely valid.

[/quote]

It all sounds a bit 'wannabe' to me. Like darts players calling themselves 'atheletes'.

[Skol303]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1439198314' post='2840636']
...and apparently they class themselves as musicians. Can anyone of you youngsters explain all of this to an old feller?
[/quote]

Old news Rob!

I was a music hack (mid-late 90s) during the rise of the “Superstar DJs” - mostly born out the Ibiza scene - people like Sasha, Carl Cox, Roger Sanchez [i](keep up!)[/i] who could regularly command fees of $10K per night.

That particular scene has wained a little since then, but their modern counterparts - David Guetta, Deadmau5, Calvin Harris - still earn megabucks.

I think DJ’ing [i]can[/i] be considered a form of musicianship in some contexts… for instance, scratch DJing has evolved into something called turntablism, which is quite exciting to watch/listen to, albeit in small doses - example here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc

Aside from that, it’s less about sense of musicianship and more about simply fuelling a party. And that is a skill itself… I used to DJ clubs and bars around Manchester (1990s), and there’s a knack to ensuring a dancefloor is full of people. It’s not quite as simple as just playing good records; you need a sense of ‘lateral dynamics’ [i](I just made that term up!)[/i], ebb and flow, to control the energy of a crowd throughout the night.

And it is very much about [u]dancing[/u]… many young people just like bouncing around to loud electronic music. Especially when enjoying an altered state of mind. I’m too old for that sort of nonsense nowadays, but there was a time when I partook in such shenanigans and it’s a very different experience to attending a gig - dare I say more 'tribal'. I mean, when was the last time you saw people dancing - I mean [i]really[/i] dancing - at a conventional gig? It’s a rarity if it ever happens; whereas it’s the raison-d'etre in club culture.

But none of this is new. My father-in-law and his friends were doing exactly the same during the 50s and 60s during the Northern Soul movement. DJs and dodgy substances included

And people back then used to raise an eyebrow for exactly the same reasons they do today... although the DJs were paid a lot less. Granted

[Muzz]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1439205021' post='2840742']
It all sounds a bit 'wannabe' to me. Like darts players calling themselves 'atheletes'.
[/quote]

Bit like that George Martin...he always wanted to be Ringo, I heard...

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1439206339' post='2840762']for instance, scratch DJing has evolved into something called turntablism, which is quite exciting to watch/listen to, albeit in small doses - example here:
[/quote]

Not really been into it since the late 90s / early 00s when DJ Craze was the world champ so not sure who the top guys are these days... But check this guy out!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue1sgGEvkwE[/media]

One of the few out there that can maintain the rhythm in time whilst beat juggling!

Edited August 10, 2015 by dannybuoy

[UglyDog]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1439206339' post='2840762']
I think DJ’ing [i]can[/i] be considered a form of musicianship in some contexts… for instance, scratch DJing has evolved into something called turntablism, which is quite exciting to watch/listen to, albeit in small doses - example here:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3ftsCVXhc[/media]
[/quote]

OK, I would tend to count myself as pretty much an old fart too -- but bugger me if that wasn't pretty damned impressive. These guys must get through needles and crossfaders quicker than we do strings

[skankdelvar]

Reading this thread I feel as if I've time-travelled back two decades.

On the upside, being back in 1995 means I know which horse will win the Northern Aggregates Selling Stakes at Catterick. A splurge on Euro Express at 7/1 is a cert.

[Skol303]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1439207675' post='2840795']OK, I would tend to count myself as pretty much an old fart too -- but bugger me if that wasn't pretty damned impressive. These guys must get through needles and crossfaders quicker than we do strings [/quote]

Indeed they do! Although they use two-way needles (pointy on both sides), rather than the conventional needles I/we use at home (pointy one side, flat on the other). Regardless, it’s not a recommended way too treat vinyl if you’re precious about it

Ironically (in the context of this thread)… this sort of thing has become an endangered “heritage” art form with the invention of modern digital mixers, which can beat match instantly and add automated scratch FX at the press of a button. But the same applies to vinyl in pretty much any setting these days.

PS: another nice example from dannybuoy above.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1439208076' post='2840801']
Reading this thread I feel as if I've time-travelled back two decades.

On the upside, being back in 1995 means I know which horse will win the Northern Aggregates Selling Stakes at Catterick. A splurge on Euro Express at 7/1 is a cert.
[/quote]

[Bilbo]

I remains unconvinced. As I have never danced for more than 12 seconds, I would not consider myself to be part of MC Dynorod's target audience and shall consequently leave the matter rest.

[xgsjx]

There's many wannabe DJs who just spin other folks records. But the better DJs are usually musicians aw well, writing EDM or remixing someone else's song to their style.
I love Jazz (possibly my fave genre), I love Rock & many other genres of music too, but there's something about a good bit of house music that I can't resist (even as an old fart). I love writing the stuff too. Tried to get a live band together that would play house music on real instruments, but too many people have such a narrow taste in music (or just music snobs).

[Skol303]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1439208914' post='2840813']
I remains unconvinced. As I have never danced for more than 12 seconds, I would not consider myself to be part of MC Dynorod's target audience and shall consequently leave the matter rest.
[/quote]

MC Dynorod is disappointed...

[Dad3353]

There was much shaking of wise old heads and 'tut-tutting' at the invention of the saxophone, and even the piano, with its various evolutions. Are they 'real' instruments..? Is it 'cheating' to include them as musical..? How about electric organs (no steam any more...)..? Modern drum kits were frowned upon; indeed, some still profess, to this day, that a 'medium' tom is a heresy. Some folks just are born old, and stay that way. Sometimes they're right, of course. Bagpipes and celtic bombardes [i]are [/i]a curse on humanity.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Dad3353