Is it really in the fingers and not the bass?

[jazzyvee]

[color=#141823][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]
I still consider myself fairly new to live bass playing and I have a basses I love the sound of and I'm starting to discover what I think my tone on each instrument is. I use one brand of bass so do not have any real experience of different brands. So.... what I'm seeking for with this post is clarity to something I've read so many times on-line here and other places, and heard many bass players claim but I haven't read anything that convinces me that this is really true.[/font][/color][color=#141823][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]
What I hear is this "Most if not all of the tone we have as players comes from our fingers and not the bass." [/font][/color][color=#141823][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]

Now I'm not going to express my own view at this point, but I'm putting it out here to find out from more experienced musicians if there is any meat on this view. However, if that really is the case why are we falling for the seduction of spending so much money time and effort on the smaller percentage of our playing that contributes the least to our sound, namely the bass and the rig, the gear?[/font][/color]

[CamdenRob]

Whilst your fingers are obviously a major part of your playing technique (muting, dynamics etc) I do not beleive they have anything to do with your tone... That comes from, strings, bass, amp effects etc...

If it really was all in the fingers then we'd all be using basses and amps without any tone controls...




*edited and needlessly aggressive bits removed...

Edited June 19, 2015 by CamdenRob

[discreet]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1434720431' post='2802166']
[color=#141823][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]...if that really is the case why are we falling for the seduction of spending so much money time and effort on the smaller percentage of our playing that contributes the least to our sound, namely the bass and the rig, the gear?[/font][/color]
[/quote]

It in the fingers [i]and [/i]in the bass/amp/cab/fx, of course. But mostly in the fingers. In my opinion we spend so much time, effort and money on GAS and gear because it's easier to believe that a new bass/amp/cab will make us into much better players, or at least sound like we are, than to admit that our fingers aren't up to it and may need work (i.e. our playing is in question and we need to put time and effort into doing something about it).

This of course is much, much harder and involves having a cold hard look at ourselves, and not many people want to do that.

Edited June 19, 2015 by discreet

[timmo]

I suppose the only way to find out, is buy another bass and try it out. There have been a number of discussions about this, and both for and against. I have 2 basses , and they sound different. Whether it is tone , resonance, or what, i have no idea.

[discreet]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1434720773' post='2802170']
I do not beleive they have anything to do with your tone... That comes from, strings, bass, amp effects etc...
If it really was all in the fingers then we'd all be using basses and amps without any tone controls...
[/quote]

I must respectfully disagree... most of the time my basses and amps are set flat (yes I know, that's another thread) and an enormous amount of tone control is to be had by how and where one strikes or plucks the strings... you can have two people play the same bass through the same amp* and get absolutely polar opposites of tone right there.

[size=3]*Not at the same time, obviously. [/size]

Edited June 19, 2015 by discreet

[Lozz196]

If I play with my natural style I get a warm, bassy sound, even though I use a pick. But if I change the attack I can easily coax a Bruce Foxton/JJ Burnell sound without touching any of the eq on either bass or amp.

Sure the inherent tone of the bass is a big part of it, but how you strike the strings has a real impact on the sound. Not sure about my fretting fingers though - never noticed them making any difference.

[discreet]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1434721062' post='2802177']
Sure the inherent tone of the bass is a big part of it, but how you strike the strings has a real impact on the sound. Not sure about my fretting fingers though - never noticed them making any difference.
[/quote]

You know, I think how one frets does make a difference. You don't fret and pluck a string in isolation, both are part of the same note. Fretting has an impact on sustain, muting... then there are hammer-ons and pull-offs (fnarr) and all that... definitely related to tone, I'd say.

Edited June 19, 2015 by discreet

[gary mac]

I tend to think it's an over used and not quite correct term.

All in the technique would be more appropriate

[Funky Dunky]

A P Bass sounds like a P Bass and a J Bass sounds like a J Bass. A Stingray sounds like a Stingray. These basses have pretty unmistakable tones regardless of who is playing them. There are subtle nuances which can be brought out via the hands/touch/technique but the gear itself forms the basis of your sound.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Funky Dunky

[Mykesbass]

I've got two P type basses, one a fretless Jon Shuker 5 string with a Nordstrand pickup, amarelo fingerboard and flatwound strings. The other is a Mighty Mite kit with maple fretted board, a Kent Armstrong pickup, and nickel roundwounds. There is no way I can make either sound like the other, despite using the same fingers!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1434721279' post='2802185']
I tend to think it's an over used and not quite correct term.

All in the technique would be more appropriate
[/quote]

Very much this.

If it really was just "tone" then you would be able to identify the player from a single repeated note. However I think what identifies a player is far more things like note choice, phrasing, and how the individual notes are articulated. None of these things are "tone" IMO.

[discreet]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1434721712' post='2802196']
If it really was just "tone" then you would be able to identify the player from a single repeated note.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure I could identify Charles Mingus from a single note, but not many electric bass players. Chris Squire possibly, as in 'FFS! Who the hell put this f*cking YES album on, and why??'

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1434720773' post='2802170']
If it really was all in the fingers then we'd all be using basses and amps without any tone controls...
[/quote]

FWIW I'd happily use basses with just a killswitch, or volume knob 'just in case'. I think I'd be happy to have an amp with volume and some kind of high pass filter/control only, to tame bass boom.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Adrenochrome

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1434722351' post='2802211']
FWIW I'd happily use basses with just a killswitch, or volume knob 'just in case'. I think I'd be happy to have an amp with some kind of high pass filter/control, only to tame bass boom.
[/quote]

I run my amp flat too... my point was more that if you were to split the signal coming from your bass and send one half to your usual rig and the other to a 5 watt guitar amp with the treble on 10 and bass on 0 then they would not sound the same... if it really was "all in the fingers" then both amps would sound identical.

This is an over simplification obviously but this is the general point i'm trying to make.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Whatever equipment choices you make, your own timing, note choices and technical execution are still going to be the dominant part of what the audience percieves - changing up the equipment is a bit like changing the condiment that you use to flavour your food, chips are always chips regardless of whether you want to season with a classic choice like salt and vinegar, or pick something different like ketchup, mayonaisse, gravy or curry sauce.

[discreet]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1434721618' post='2802192']
A P Bass sounds like a P Bass and a J Bass sounds like a J Bass. A Stingray sounds like a Stingray.
[/quote]

i see where you're coming from, but if you listen to James Jamerson then Steve Harris (P Bass), John Paul Jones then Tim Commerford (J Bass), Gail Ann Dorsey then Bernard Edwards (Stingray), the distinctions between basses becomes blurred and those between style and technique become clearer... all in my humble opinion, of course.

Edited June 19, 2015 by discreet

[KevB]

Yes I think the crux of it is that people get confused and use 'tone' and 'style' concurrently to mean the same thing. And clearly they are not. If I play my bass through my little 25watt practice amp or through my gigging rig I'm playing in the same general style so to some extent I'm identifiable as 'me' (plodding weekend warrior) but the tone from the two set ups are miles apart. If I swapped from rounds to flats I'd sound different again. Neither are anything to do with my fingers.

[ambient]

Gather a few bassists together and take it in turns to play the same bass. Leave all the controls the same, don't touch anything.

Then come back to this thread 😁

I've done this with my bass at uni, and played other guys basses.

[chris_b]

It's a short hand for; the important thing being the player and what and how he plays, and not the gear.

[Dad3353]

Very few people listen to the gear. Most folks listen to the player.

[JellyKnees]

It's both. Next...

[BILL POSTERS]

Both

With uneducated players, ie ones like me who picked it up as they went along, never had a lesson of any kind, still flying by the seat of their pants donkeys years later, and think sheet music looks like [s]hyro[/s], [s]hieriogl [/s] hieroglyphics written by drunk spiders who had their legs dipped in ink. Its probably mostly in the fingers.

With a guy who sight reads, has been taught technique, and knows what all the knobs on his amp are for, its probably more in the gear.

Thats my two bobs worth.

Edited June 19, 2015 by BILL POSTERS

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1434728123' post='2802286']
Very few people listen to the gear. Most folks listen to the player.
[/quote]

Apart from other bass players who stare intently at one's amp settings, turn to their wives and observe that 'the sound is too scooped and needs more low mids'.

[Pinball]

I always recall me and Mornatts trying each others (totally different) basses. I noticed him smiling when I was playing and asked what was up-his answer was "When you play my bass it sounds like and and when I play yours it sounds like me.

A great bass sound it down to both equipment and style

A good analogy would be taking a photograph. A good quality image depends on a decent camera gear but getting a great picture is down to the photographer.

[Funky Dunky]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1434722748' post='2802218']


i see where you're coming from, but if you listen to James Jamerson then Steve Harris (P Bass), John Paul Jones then Tim Commerford (J Bass), Gail Ann Dorsey then Bernard Edwards (Stingray), the distinctions between basses becomes blurred and those between style and technique become clearer... all in my humble opinion, of course.
[/quote]

Well okay, but Jamerson used flatwounds, Harris's attack iis largely different, sure. John Paul Jones and Tim Commerford - I'll break that down to Timmy's amplification and effects (he uses Lakland basses). I've not heard Gail Ann Dorsey so I can't comment. There are more variables in their tonal differences than just their hands though. I'm not denying you make a valid point, however