Barefaced Cabs - Retro six10 and Retro Two2

[charic]

Why would he come over here when all the advertisement is being done for him

[mcnach]

The thing is that, in the end, somebody's hatred for BF (whether from experience or just joining a mob) does not stop me from enjoying what I like about the ones I have [1], just like other people hate Stingrays etc etc. So it's a two way thing. I know there are attackers that get a bit ridiculous (I'm missing a particular one from this thread, guess who it is? ) but also over-reactions from BF-philes. It's just a speaker cab!

When I search for comments on gear, I do like to read both positive and negatives, in fact the negatives tend to be more informative. I see where JTUK is coming from, and I think it's a good thing. It's the incessant chiming in of some other BF-phobes that get tiring, but at the same time if the BF-philes don't bit their bait, they would not make quite as much noise. So it's a bit of a two-way thing.

[1] I'd side with the BF-phile camp, even if I don't love one of the two cabs I have (the other one I do love, lots). I like what BF is doing, and I'm very happy overall.

[discreet]

Maybe we should (gasp) ...agree to disagree?

Nah, what am I thinking? That would be logical and reasonable!! [size=4] Thhppp!![/size]

[Mudpup]

[quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1399841593' post='2448307']
I would just like to say that although I have never bought a Barefaced cab and I may not do in the future either , I respect Alex for what he has done so far and continues to do with updates and new products etc.
It's a shame Alex feels he doesn't want to contribute to threads on here because of all the reasons already stated because he always comes across as a well imformed and very helpful guy. In the past I have emailed him about his cabs and he was always very helpful with his replies.
Whether people like his cabs or not we should be giving support to a British designer and builder instead of bashing him down.
So come on Alex , come and join in , we won't bite......honest !!
[/quote]

He used to post on here but I believe a few people just kept having a pop/grinding the same old axes and he gave up wasting his time on here.
Forums are unfair places a lot of the time - the masses can say whatever they like in general but if you are trying to run a business then your hands are somewhat tied with the way you can respond.

As mentioned, he always pops up on the transatlantic site when someone has a query or issue and seems happy to discuss publicly - he doesn't get drawn into the bunfight this site always ends up in.


His time is better spent building cabs anyway I reckon............

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399754309' post='2447404']
Well, drifting off-topic, I liked playing through your BB2/Gen 2 Compact combination at the gig last night! It seems like the BB2 is really clear and even in the upper mids/treble region - it's all there without giving the impression of having gaps or peaks in the response. Also, with just a small tweak of the Markbass VLE knob, I was happy with the sound of my fuzz, which is rare for a tweetered cab. Although I don't know how you had the attenuator set - maybe it was switched off?
[/quote]

Looks like a Faital tweeter/horn combo in those cabs, and if I'm right about which model is probably the best ever put into a commercial bass cab, and significantly better than a lot of PA cabs too until you get to the middle of the market. I'd hope the implementation is good as well - Alex's claimed off-axis response suggests it is. Most bass cabs with tweeters have nasty peaks around the roll-on frequency (accompanied by distortion) so you get a harsh upper-mid spike, often preceded by a dip. This gets worse if there's a woofer with badly damped break-up spike, e.g. most Eminence. A crossover with enough components to deal with that and give a smooth transition to the tweeter is very expensive! The better ones will have an ok tweeter, and avoid significant peaks around tweeter resonance, so fine for bass in many applications - but put voice through them and compare to a proper, 'real' professional PA cab, you will hear the deficiencies.

To give an idea of relative cost, the PA cabs I am just finishing off at the moment are costing me over £100 in tweeter/horn components, and over £50 in crossover components, [i]per cab[/i]! And that design is a compromise on cost grounds...

[JTUK]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1399836528' post='2448213']
[/size]
It's not your posts I'm thinking about in particular. At least you have had experience of the product and didn't like it, that's fair enough. But there seems to be a feeling of resentment somehow that Alex is succeeding where perhaps others haven't? I really don't know - I'm guessing. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it! First world stuff, anyway.
[/quote]

Actually, I don't get that impression. I don't think they have any particular reason to hate the stuff... and I don't recall them using the word hate at all. They generally say, they have tried it, didn't rate it at all, and can't see what the hype on here is all about.
They seemed to have time on the boxes as they were able to mention the models and the build quality and they thought the fan boi stuff was a tad off the scale. I just got the impression that they aren't that bothered..which may be why they don't post anymore, but thought the product pricey for what it is.
Me, I have serious misgivings..if you forgive the word 'serious' about a cab, any cab, that is inherrently bassey, as that is the last thing most players need, IMO...but then I also doubt I have comparable tone goals to some either. And if a company was pushing that goal, I'd wonder about their design goals and real background in the business. I aslo wonder about the bass player as well... but less of that,

For all the ante's..they are just as many cheerleaders and of course, that might clash once in a while.
I don't think any one is wishing the company to fail... they just don't rate the product they have tried.
But god forbid they post that...you only have to get some some of the sentiment here

I do have the chance to try another...brought new a few months ago, afaik... I'll be back to start my own thread then

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1399892153' post='2448626']
Looks like a Faital tweeter/horn combo in those cabs, and if I'm right about which model is probably the best ever put into a commercial bass cab, and significantly better than a lot of PA cabs too until you get to the middle of the market. I'd hope the implementation is good as well - Alex's claimed off-axis response suggests it is. Most bass cabs with tweeters have nasty peaks around the roll-on frequency (accompanied by distortion) so you get a harsh upper-mid spike, often preceded by a dip.
[/quote]

That would make sense, as I usually can't stand tweeters on bass cabs, but the BB2 didn't have whatever property it is that I dislike about them. I'm not sure it would change my life or redefine the instrument (just to make sure I'm stopping short of hype), but it's a good sounding piece of kit.

These new 10" designs sound interesting as I've always liked the sound when boosting the high end slightly on the amp (especially with a touch of valvey colouration) then running into a tweeterless cab. It sounds like they may lend themselves well to this approach. Of the cabs I have, the EA Wizzy 10 does this well but is perhaps a touch small when the drummer is going for it, and the 2x12" with B&C 12HPL64s is nice and even through the mids but can sometimes be a little dark and pillowy for the sound I'm after, but it can get there with the right EQ. I'll most likely stick with both of these, but it's always worth looking at the options.

[thebassman]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399900048' post='2448736']


That would make sense, as I usually can't stand tweeters on bass cabs, but the BB2 didn't have whatever property it is that I dislike about them. I'm not sure it would change my life or redefine the instrument (just to make sure I'm stopping short of hype), but it's a good sounding piece of kit.

These new 10" designs sound interesting as I've always liked the sound when boosting the high end slightly on the amp (especially with a touch of valvey colouration) then running into a tweeterless cab. It sounds like they may lend themselves well to this approach. Of the cabs I have, the EA Wizzy 10 does this well but is perhaps a touch small when the drummer is going for it, and the 2x12" with B&C 12HPL64s is nice and even through the mids but can sometimes be a little dark and pillowy for the sound I'm after, but it can get there with the right EQ. I'll most likely stick with both of these, but it's always worth looking at the options.
[/quote]

Sounds very interesting, I'm certainly looking forward to hearing some first hand reviews.
Anyone signed up for one yet?

[Sean]

I love my Big Twin 2. Not had it long but it's the best cab I've ever had.

Why did I get interested in BF? Mainly because anything that generates such passionate polar responses has to be worth checking out. So, if you look at it like I do, then the haters drew my attention to Barefaced and made the products even more compelling than a bunch of fanboys with no opposition and no balancing comment ever could alone. I had to form my own opinion before making comment and in the process found a cab that performs way better than anything else I've used.

The whole small specialist British business thing was also compelling but I wouldn't buy British unless it was better than anything foreign made even though I always try to when possible. I just haven't managed to find many UK built basses I liked enough to stick with.

As for those who pass comment and judgement without having experienced the products themselves, I can't take them seriously, they're idiots and a disgrace to the other people who post drivel on internet bulletin boards (which is what we used to call forums back in the day).

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1399951827' post='2449272']
As for those who pass comment and judgement without having experienced the products themselves, I can't take them seriously, they're idiots and a disgrace to the other people who post drivel on internet bulletin boards (which is what we used to call forums back in the day).
[/quote]

I don't think this applies to anyone in this thread, sorry.I also think this is exactly the attitude that winds people up, and means the thread gets heated.

This in turn leads to people thinking: 'Right, I'll say exactly what I think'. This leads to more problems!

Edited May 13, 2014 by Musicman20

[stevie]

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1399951827' post='2449272']
they're idiots and a disgrace to the other people who post drivel on internet bulletin boards...
[/quote]

What?

[Sean]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399971977' post='2449390']


I don't think this applies to anyone in this thread, sorry.I also think this is exactly the attitude that winds people up, and means the thread gets heated.

This in turn leads to people thinking: 'Right, I'll say exactly what I think'. This leads to more problems!
[/quote]

They already say exactly what they think, which was the point I was making about people giving their strong opinions on something they haven't tried. I wasn't saying that everyone who passes negative comment on BF is an idiot, just the ones who do so without having the experience of the products their commenting on. And that's my prejudiced hypocritical opinion based on having not met the posters.

The heated threads were the ones that drew my attention to the cabs anyway so it's all good for business.

Maybe some winking smilies would have changed the tone I intended. And the "drivel" comment was self-deprecatory for those who didn't spot that.

Would you like me to spell "condescending" for you?! < as is that.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Sean' timestamp='1399978186' post='2449483']
They already say exactly what they think, which was the point I was making about people giving their strong opinions on something they haven't tried. I wasn't saying that everyone who passes negative comment on BF is an idiot, just the ones who do so without having the experience of the products their commenting on. And that's my prejudiced hypocritical opinion based on having not met the posters.

The heated threads were the ones that drew my attention to the cabs anyway so it's all good for business.

Maybe some winking smilies would have changed the tone I intended. And the "drivel" comment was self-deprecatory for those who didn't spot that.

Would you like me to spell "condescending" for you?! < as is that.
[/quote]

No, I think you might not have understood what I mean. As far as I know, all of the posts are from people who HAVE tried BF cabinets, in some way/form, eg bass bash, gigs, home vs other cabs, all of these, etc etc.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Musicman20

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1399978486' post='2449487']
No, I think you might not have understood what I mean. As far as I know, all of the posts are from people who HAVE tried thr cabinets, in some way/form, eg bass bash, gigs, home vs other cabs, all of these, etc etc.
[/quote]

No-one here has tried the cabs which are the subject of this thread yet. It seems to me that the older Gen1/2 Compact, S12, Midget etc. had different design goals from the 2 and 3-way designs and the new 10" cabs are going for something different again, so playing one and not liking it doesn't necessarily reflect on the others. Also, seeing McNach's recently bought cabs in the flesh makes me think that both the woodworking and finishing have moved on since the early one-bloke-in-a-garage days, as you'd expect them to.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399980146' post='2449507']
No-one here has tried the cabs which are the subject of this thread yet. It seems to me that the older Gen1/2 Compact, S12, Midget etc. had different design goals from the 2 and 3-way designs and the new 10" cabs are going for something different again, so playing one and not liking it doesn't necessarily reflect on the others. Also, seeing McNach's recently bought cabs in the flesh makes me think that both the woodworking and finishing have moved on since the early one-bloke-in-a-garage days, as you'd expect them to.
[/quote]

Absolutely, I realise that.

[Conan]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1399980146' post='2449507']
both the woodworking and finishing have moved on since the early one-bloke-in-a-garage days...[/quote]

Yeah. I think there are three or four of them now...

[Bigwan]

Once again a barefaced cab thread becomes a farce...

In other news I've just placed my floating deposit from my cancelled BB2 order on the new 2x10 as sounds like my ideal small cab. First in the queue and I'll hold on to my Orange Terror a while longer...

[stevie]

What's delivery on the 2 x 10s, by the way, Bigwan?

[Bigwan]

No idea Stevie. I've asked Alex just now and I'll let you know. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned mid-June though. I'm in no panic for it!

[stevie]

That's certainly a great improvement on what it used to be.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1399892153' post='2448626']
Looks like a Faital tweeter/horn combo in those cabs, and if I'm right about which model is probably the best ever put into a commercial bass cab, and significantly better than a lot of PA cabs too until you get to the middle of the market. I'd hope the implementation is good as well - Alex's claimed off-axis response suggests it is. Most bass cabs with tweeters have nasty peaks around the roll-on frequency (accompanied by distortion) so you get a harsh upper-mid spike, often preceded by a dip. This gets worse if there's a woofer with badly damped break-up spike, e.g. most Eminence. A crossover with enough components to deal with that and give a smooth transition to the tweeter is very expensive! The better ones will have an ok tweeter, and avoid significant peaks around tweeter resonance, so fine for bass in many applications - but put voice through them and compare to a proper, 'real' professional PA cab, you will hear the deficiencies.

To give an idea of relative cost, the PA cabs I am just finishing off at the moment are costing me over £100 in tweeter/horn components, and over £50 in crossover components, [i]per cab[/i]! And that design is a compromise on cost grounds...
[/quote] do you mean the new "retro" cabs or the new ten 3 stuff?

I know if you start adding the cost up off buying the parts yourself, the driver that's the most similar (i know its a custom driver barefaced use), the horn and waveguide, add the cost of wood and that and it's not much different from buying a big baby 2... an that's before you've even got anywhere near building a crossover and the parts for that.... and of course you would need to know how to build it... of all the critiques of barefaced stuff I've heard "they're expensive" is one of the less convincing ones. IMO obv.

[hidesert]

New member here from Santa Fe, NM.
I just bought a second hand '69er which, here in the US, is like finding a needle in a haystack in a field of haystacks. I have a 78 Ampeg SVT that I want to use it for. Considered Ampeg 810 Heritage (Really heavy), Bergantino NV610 (heavy), Fender 610 Neo (still a bit heavy), and waiting for the Retro 6 ($1700 US plus shipping across the pond).
I was aware that the Retro 6 is being released and that the '69er is now approaching obsolescence, but was glad to jump on it nevertheless.
Looks like you guys have a lively forum! Best part, it's not blocked (like TalkBass) from my work computer!
Any advice regarding a British-sourced cover for it?

Edited May 13, 2014 by hidesert

[Lozz196]

Roqsolid - they have a measuring-tool on there so that you can literally get a bespoke cover, plus, once they`ve made the first one for a specific cab, they add it to the list of their products. I`ve had Roqsolid covers for all of my cabs over the last few years, really good products, and quick turnaround, even when making them for the first time as oppose to picking them off the shelf.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1400001515' post='2449801']
do you mean the new "retro" cabs or the new ten 3 stuff?

I know if you start adding the cost up off buying the parts yourself, the driver that's the most similar (i know its a custom driver barefaced use), the horn and waveguide, add the cost of wood and that and it's not much different from buying a big baby 2... an that's before you've even got anywhere near building a crossover and the parts for that.... and of course you would need to know how to build it... of all the critiques of barefaced stuff I've heard "they're expensive" is one of the less convincing ones. IMO obv.
[/quote]

I think £699 is alright for the BB2. It doesn't put me off. I do think, and this is not an attack, that the postage for the small cabs should come down.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1400005118' post='2449852']
I do think, and this is not an attack, that the postage for the small cabs should come down.
[/quote]

They charge by volume ...