Is a new mass-produced bass ever worth more than £1500

[Woodinblack]

I think i would reserve my judgement for the quantity and quality of their output, not whether they talked while doing it or looked like they were working, that seems to smack more of the presenteeism that is common in lot of UK management styles i have seen - doesnt matter how much someone does as long as they do longer hours and appears to work

[tegs07]

My only contribution to this debate is having spent 20+ years in tech, the lack of technical literacy and outdated workflows in pretty much every organisation I have ever worked in means productivity is always far below its potential.

 

I’m not surprised that the Far East have taken over. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by tegs07

[tauzero]

3 hours ago, Ralf1e said:

Cost cutting in the workplace doesn't have to be replacing people with machines.

Example.

Cut out the unofficial coffee breaks, cigarette breaks, unnecessary phone and texting breaks, talking breaks and here I mean people who do very little but talk ALL day long and think that is work when in fact they are not putting in any effort to do even a scrap of the physical part of their job. i.e. making product.

Wastage by not doing the job properly the first time so it has to be done again (no money in doing it twice)

Teams of overpaid parasitic idiots stood around presentation boards talking testicleese while claiming to be part of 5 or 6 s groups.

Clear away that little lot and you could get over twice as much quality product out the door for less cost.

 

Difficult to see where they'd have the opportunity to do all that here:

 

 

Never mind, there will be something else along for you to have a rant at shortly.

[Woodinblack]

Cerainly a lot more there than when i did the gibson tour!

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Ralf1e said:

Certainly not!

But apparently you are.

Do you not understand that all that first section of time wasting is theft, especially as many manufacturers have a production bonus in place which means you are not just stealing off the company but off your workmates as well.

I am now retired but I spent many happy years in the workplace making improvements to both products and processes which inceased working conditions and profits. It was a win win situation all round. You have no need to come out with negative garbage like the above unless I touched a nerve, which I suspect I did!

 

Judging by the force of your reaction/reply, perhaps Mr Boodang touched a nerve, too...

[diskwave]

On 03/04/2023 at 12:06, Greg Edwards69 said:

At the time, they were just mass produced instruments.

With one major difference from todays manufacturing. They were built using old growth wood which has now all gone. Instruments today are built from fast growth material, necessary of course to keep up with demand. Maybe I'm being unduly romantic with this..but pretty sure I can here the difference.

[neepheid]

12 minutes ago, greavesbass said:

With one major difference from todays manufacturing. They were built using old growth wood which has now all gone. Instruments today are built from fast growth material, necessary of course to keep up with demand. Maybe I'm being unduly romantic with this..but pretty sure I can here the difference.

 

You are

[Greg Edwards69]

1 hour ago, greavesbass said:

With one major difference from todays manufacturing. They were built using old growth wood which has now all gone. Instruments today are built from fast growth material, necessary of course to keep up with demand. Maybe I'm being unduly romantic with this..but pretty sure I can here the difference.

Yamaha released the Attitude LTD3 with artificially aged wood using their A.R.E. and I.R.A techniques.  Along with a revised neck joint, spine joint and pickup change this somehow more than doubled the price compared to the previous 2 versions. Considering I paid £899 for my already excellent LTD2 (end of line clearance - I believe the usual price was around £1600) there's no way I'm gonna fork out around £4k for a LTD3, and I doubt many people (if any) would even hear the difference in the construction techniques.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Greg Edwards69

[dclaassen]

You are , imho, not. I have a LoPrinzi flattop made in 1974. You cannot compare the tone of that guitar with a new one. Same for the feel of my MPV...it's just different. I remember picking up an old Martin D-35 and just being amazed by the feel and tone. Handmade instruments using wood that, as far as I know, is not longer available are superior in both feel and tone. Every new bass or guitar I've played is lots more sterile. 

[Dan Dare]

4 hours ago, dclaassen said:

You are , imho, not. I have a LoPrinzi flattop made in 1974. You cannot compare the tone of that guitar with a new one. Same for the feel of my MPV...it's just different. I remember picking up an old Martin D-35 and just being amazed by the feel and tone. Handmade instruments using wood that, as far as I know, is not longer available are superior in both feel and tone. Every new bass or guitar I've played is lots more sterile. 

 

Difficult to say whether it's the timber alone. An older instrument has had time to mellow and has been played in. I have a 1975 D35 that sounds fabulous, but it's been played (a lot) for getting on for 50 years. I doubt it was as good when it was new. I bought a nearly new Gibson F5L mandolin in the early 1980s. For a couple of years, it wasn't much to write home about, but it steadily improved and is now a great instrument.

 

A friend bought a Martin D28 that was around 25 years old, but had rarely been played and had spent most of its time in the case. It was pretty ordinary when he got it, but improved out of all recognition after a few years regular playing.

[Twincam]

Have prices risen only in the relation with over costs, materials and so on? Because wages haven't or not by much in comparison. 

 

I think companies are exploiting the everything is rising in costs to raise prices even further than they could be. 

 

 

[Beedster]

Having started this thread a year or so back, and since then seeing even madder price inflation despite the cost of living crisis, I suspect the question should be 'Is any electric bass - even a true vintage - ever worth over £1500?', or is it all simply a dopamine-driven ego trip eagerly capitalised on by the sellers and dealers? Mid 80's Fenders and even Squiers in the £2000 bracket, Wals that could be bought 10 years ago for around £1500 now selling at almost ten times that, Mex Fenders selling used for more than a new MIA a few years back....? 

 

[Lozz196]

Yep, today I’ve bought a 2nd hand 2008 Mex Strat for more than I paid for the exact same model new in 2008. Only a few quid more mind, but there is one on the bay at double what I paid today. 

Edited Tuesday at 21:10 by Lozz196

[Owen]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

simply a dopamine-driven trip 

Right there. I am as guilty as anyone. 

[Misdee]

 I'm one of those people who has to get things at least a reasonable price or I can't enjoy it. In the new bass market everything seems to cost a bit more than it's worth at the moment. New pro-level instruments have gone up in price across the board, and then subsequently gone up a bit more on top of that. It's enough to take all the sweetness of anything you buy. 

 

Those most effected are actually those people who have got a bit of money to spend but who now have to decide whether to spend it. If you couldn't afford a new bass before the prices all went up, now you really can't afford it. That's one thing. But if you could afford it but hesitated then now you have to decide whether to pay through the nose for what you slept on previously. And while you're deciding the prices are going up more.

 

I think the German-made Sadowsky basses have had two price rises since last autumn. Music Man basses have gone up a bit  more too.  Both factory-made guitars (albeit really superb quality ones)  now at handmade boutique prices .

 

And boutique basses at prices that make it seem like common sense that you can easily live without them, however lovely they might be.

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:04 by Misdee

[uk_lefty]

5 hours ago, Misdee said:

I'm one of those people who has to get things at at least a reasonable price or I can't enjoy it

I'm from Yorkshire too 😀😀

 

Joking.

 

I know what you mean. My US Jazz was only bought because it was the last one and had £300 off.

[Bassfinger]

I've played some wonderful mass produced basses over the years.

 

And judging from some of the threads on here it's reasonable to presume that a lot of boutique manufacturers leave a lot to be desired for both quality of the actual product and their customer service.

 

So the answer to the question is, "in many cases, yes."

[uk_lefty]

To answer the original question.... I paid £1800+ for my US Stingray in 2019. They were about £800 new at one point in time but I didn't have the money then. So I guess to me it was worth it. I've owned other good quality mass produced basses since including US and Japanese Fenders and the Stingray is still a cut above those. So on relative terms it was worth what I paid. Also, had I not paid the price I wouldn't have been able to buy it. Lots of different ways of looking at value/ worth but I'm comfortable with my decision.

[miles'tone]

9 hours ago, Beedster said:

Having started this thread a year or so back, and since then seeing even madder price inflation despite the cost of living crisis, I suspect the question should be 'Is any electric bass - even a true vintage - ever worth over £1500?', or is it all simply a dopamine-driven ego trip eagerly capitalised on by the sellers and dealers? Mid 80's Fenders and even Squiers in the £2000 bracket, Wals that could be bought 10 years ago for around £1500 now selling at almost ten times that, Mex Fenders selling used for more than a new MIA a few years back....? 

 

Mad isn't it? 5 years ago I struggled for a while to sell an above average spec Fender Custom Shop '62 P for £1800, and now you're looking at that for a nearly new American factory reissue. 5 years ago people apparently had more money too.

 

[LukeFRC]

10 hours ago, Beedster said:

Having started this thread a year or so back, and since then seeing even madder price inflation despite the cost of living crisis, I suspect the question should be 'Is any electric bass - even a true vintage - ever worth over £1500?', or is it all simply a dopamine-driven ego trip eagerly capitalised on by the sellers and dealers? Mid 80's Fenders and even Squiers in the £2000 bracket, Wals that could be bought 10 years ago for around £1500 now selling at almost ten times that, Mex Fenders selling used for more than a new MIA a few years back....? 

 

I was asked what I thought of a 90s squire Korean p bass someone had seen for £300 

nothing special, a starter instrument from the 90s - what I find odd at the low price bracket is the disconnect from the prices of cheap but good now compared to then…

 

from vague memory Squier starter bass in early 90s -£100ish? 
harley Benton starter bass now £100ish, nicer Sire thing, £300 ish 

- how do you map the older basses into that?

[SteveXFR]

Is a Fender or Gibson or Music Man really worth three or four times more than an often better made Ibanez or something else which often sounds as good? 

My Ibanez SRMS805 is the nicest made bass I've owned, it has a huge tonal range and it plays really nicely but cost £900 new and I picked it up used for half that in as new condition. I'd happily pay more for one of these than another Fender.

[Bassfinger]

Indeed. 40 years ago a hundred quid, which was rather more money then than now, got you a near unplayable egg slicer.

[Misdee]

28 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Indeed. 40 years ago a hundred quid, which was rather more money then than now, got you a near unplayable egg slicer.

How true that is! 

 

There's no doubt that less expensive basses are better than they were.

 

Consumers are also better informed about what to look out for when they buy a bass. Back in the old days you learnt by buying problems you ended up being stuck with. 

[LukeFRC]

So I think the JV squiers in 1982 were £200

£200 in 1982 is the equivalent of
£375 in 2000 and
£686 today 

 

Looking at thomann that's a Fender Player Series MIM, Sire V8, Foreign made Stingray, Yamaha BB 434, today
 

[Misdee]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

I'm from Yorkshire too 😀😀

 

Joking.

 

I know what you mean. My US Jazz was only bought because it was the last one and had £300 off.

As horse racing enthusiasts would say, there's very little value to be had in the market at the moment.

 

What bass could you say offers good value for it's current U.K retail price? The other day I was contemplating a Mexican-made Fender JMJ for £1250. Still a lot of money but might be an affordable treat if they are as good as people say. I could buy one and pretend I am still trendy and "with it". Then I read on Basschat that I would have to shield it myself to stop incessant electrical hum. I have enough problems already. 

 

The higher up the price range you go, the harder it is to find a good deal when it comes to new basses. All this with the caveat that in many cases it's the exchange rate which is killing it. Even with British-made basses. Companies like Wal can charge whatever they like and then close the order book because they are inundated with orders from the USA taking advantage of the weak pound. Other less feted bass makers are having to pay more for parts and materials. Everything has gone up, and prices won't be going back down in any foreseeable future.

 

I remember back in the 1990s being shocked at how much imported basses were in Australia compared to the UK because of trade tariffs. Now we are like Australia was in terms of prices and I'm not sure who or what to blame.