Doesn't the fact loads of young kids on YT are nailing it...

[miles'tone]

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by miles'tone

[msb]

We had to walk through the snow to get to school , uphill … both ways.

[mikel]

6 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Playing music is not a competition.

 

IMO instrument ability and technique is only important if the lack of it gets in the way of being able to play the songs.

 

Ultimately it's the songs that are important, not any individual musician's technical prowess.

This. There are many,  many guitarists who can now play like Hendrix. But he was the original and came up with that style and those songs. You can be an obsolute virtuoso on an instrument, but coming up with great music is the trick. 

[TheLowDown]

2 hours ago, WinterMute said:

I used to see all the Chinese and Korean kid violinists coming over executing the most challenging scores flawlessly, but ask them to improvise, not a hope.

That's it. All these kids are doing is reading from a tab and playing a song exactly as written, which can be done perfectly with practice. Perhaps some of them are creative and musical, have some knowledge of theory, know the fretboard extremely well, have perfect time and groove, ability to lock in with the drummer in any style, and have excelled in ear training. But are any those skills being actively demonstrated by playing those songs?

Edited September 13, 2022 by TheLowDown

[Leonard Smalls]

1 minute ago, TheLowDown said:

But are any those skills are actively demonstrated by playing these songs?

That's an argument against any covers at all!

😁

[BillyBass]

7 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

That's an argument against any covers at all!

😁

No, its an argument against playing along to songs on Spotify but playing covers in a band requires many of the skills @TheLowDown mentioned

[Dad3353]

6 minutes ago, TheLowDown said:

That's it. All these kids are doing is reading from a tab and playing a song exactly as written, which can be done perfectly with practice. Perhaps some of them are creative and musical, have some knowledge of theory, know the fretboard extremely well, have perfect time and groove, ability to lock in with the drummer in any style, and have excelled in ear training. But are any those skills being actively demonstrated by playing those songs?

 

There seem to be a lot of ...

 

 

... sour grapes out there. 

[Leonard Smalls]

11 minutes ago, BillyBass said:

No, its an argument against playing along to songs on Spotify but playing covers in a band requires many of the skills @TheLowDown mentioned

Indeed it does! But playing any song exactly as written doesn't require much creativity - making the song your own does.

I have this argument with my mother a lot - she's only into covers and thinks nothing really good has been written since Beethoven's 9th 😉. I've pointed her in the direction of Jacques Loussier's covers of Bach's Italian Concerto, which I contend is how it should be played and JS himself would be proud, but she thinks it's blasphemy to mess with someone's choon!

[msb]

Much of learning an instrument is repetition and practice, developing a muscle memory, and I see the time and work that’s involved in getting there.

Playing simple scales can be an art form. You can make them fun , and even exciting. I would never discourage good technique.

[BillyBass]

3 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Indeed it does! But playing any song exactly as written doesn't require much creativity - making the song your own does.

I have this argument with my mother a lot - she's only into covers and thinks nothing really good has been written since Beethoven's 9th 😉. I've pointed her in the direction of Jacques Loussier's covers of Bach's Italian Concerto, which I contend is how it should be played and JS himself would be proud, but she thinks it's blasphemy to mess with someone's choon!

Your mum could buy 5 different versions of Beethoven's 9th and they would all be different.  We have the sheet music but no original recordings, of course; I would imagine it's impossible to play a long piece of instrumental and choral music, such as Beethoven's 9th, the same as another orchestra led by a different conductor.  

 

We aren't trained to follow a conductor but we do have to improvise and create (within parameters) when covering songs in a band

[Dad3353]

14 minutes ago, Leonard Smalls said:

Indeed it does! But playing any song exactly as written doesn't require much creativity - making the song your own does.

I have this argument with my mother a lot - she's only into covers and thinks nothing really good has been written since Beethoven's 9th 😉. I've pointed her in the direction of Jacques Loussier's covers of Bach's Italian Concerto, which I contend is how it should be played and JS himself would be proud, but she thinks it's blasphemy to mess with someone's choon!

'Creativity' is a criteria amongst many others. Not everyone is, nor wants to be, creative, and there is a lot of creative stuff that is really... well, let's just say 'not very good', eh..? Is music, already composed, never, ever, to be played again, by anyone..? Maybe not even by the original composer, if one is to be strict about it. What's wrong with reading aloud a Good Poem, for folk to enjoy..? What's wrong with playing Good Music for folk to enjoy..? What's wrong twith playing bad 'creative' music for folk to enjoy..? (Ignore that last bit; it's so rare...). If the Players wish to go out on a limb and play whatever their 'creativity' dictates, that's fine, and if anyone has the temerity to suffer it, good on 'em. I'd rather play my Schubert's Ninth for the umpteenth time, and hear again something I'd not heard in there hitherto. One day, I might even go for a different version, and see what the conductor and/or orchestra have managed to 'create' from this old soup.
To each his/her own, naturally. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Dad3353

[StickyDBRmf]

Little girl on the bass: "Oh, what to plug into?"

[msb]

I know musicians that are great readers , but are not great improvisers. But from their first look at a piece can play with conviction , emotion , and depth , and not just follow the dots. 
But most of the ones I play with are the opposite. 

[TimR]

7 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Playing music is not a competition.

 

It is. 

 

But not in the sense of who can play the most notes in a bar, or who can make the best copy of something.

 

The winners of the competition make millions of pounds and become famous. And there are millions of people competing for that prize and there can only be a few winners. 

[yorks5stringer]

Never mind nailing it, look at those hammer-ons.....

[Barking Spiders]

8 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Playing music is not a competition.

 

IMO instrument ability and technique is only important if the lack of it gets in the way of being able to play the songs.

 

Ultimately it's the songs that are important, not any individual musician's technical prowess.

 

But when people vote in 'who's the greatest polls' they're most probably choosing players from their fave bands they think have the chops. The thing with these polls / lists is they almost solely focus on rock and metal whereas actually the best players, in terms of mastery of their instruments, are from other genres such as flamenco, jazz, country, classical, bluegrass etc.

[Barking Spiders]

5 hours ago, Supernaut said:

Feel. 
 

A byword for talentless. 

 The word does seem to be widely applied to certain players as a euphemism for 'limited technique'.

[dclaassen]

I teally love watching young folks who are playing really well and loving what they do. There is no competition…enjoy the ride and be grateful for the gift of music-making. I know a lot of weekend warriors who are happier playing music than some famous ones. If you want to see pure joy, watch Tal Wilkenfeld performing with Jeff Beck. I could watch her play for hours!

[Barking Spiders]

47 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

I teally love watching young folks who are playing really well and loving what they do. There is no competition…enjoy the ride and be grateful for the gift of music-making. 

 Indeed music is not a competition so why do all these fkin music/guitar mags (online and print) as well as millions of forum threads continue to bore on with their dull and predictable lists/polls. Things get worse when irate fanboys get all worked up because their faves aren't as high up the list as they think they should be. Then again I suppose it's all click bait, esp when Mojo etc have these top 10s on YT. 

[OliverBlackman]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

 

It is. 

 

But not in the sense of who can play the most notes in a bar, or who can make the best copy of something.

 

The winners of the competition make millions of pounds and become famous. And there are millions of people competing for that prize and there can only be a few winners. 

Is that of competition of music or fame? I’d argue the latter. Very little of the input to reach such heights is musical.

[miles'tone]

1 hour ago, Barking Spiders said:

 The word does seem to be widely applied to certain players as a euphemism for 'limited technique'.

Also used to describe a bassist that doesn't overplay yet keeps people dancing all night.

 

[chris_b]

 

1 hour ago, Barking Spiders said:

 Indeed music is not a competition so why do all these fkin music/guitar mags (online and print) as well as millions of forum threads continue to bore on with their dull and predictable lists/polls.

 

That is not about music but all about selling magazines! Not difficult to work out.

[Barking Spiders]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

 

 

That is not about music but all about selling magazines! Not difficult to work out.

music fora aren't about selling anything though

[fleabag]

There's fack all art in copying someone  else's  guitar / bass lines.  Fun though.  I  do that very thing meself.

The kiddies are talented, yes,  clever too,  but ultimately a zzzzzzzzzzz fest

 

The magic comes from the mind of the original composer.  When the embryos eventually compose something worthwhile, then i'll be impressed.

 

 

[Frank Blank]

10 hours ago, Supernaut said:

No wonder you're not a mod anymore. 

Yeah, once his scooter had to go to the scrapyard he became a goth.