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Crawford13

Paul McCartney - under appreciated?

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First of all, I'm a huge Beatles fan as without them, the music wouldn't be the same today as they really influenced everyone, even those pretending the opposite.

There are a few bass players milestones in bass playing and contribution to the fame of this instrument.

The first of all being Monk Montgomery, the first electric bass player who, pushed by the visionary Lionel Hampton, used it and adopted it. For the first time, the bass wasn't just a rhythmic instrument whose notes weren't heard, but a rhythmic instrument whose notes can contribute to the melody.

The second milestone is, of course, James Jamerson with his complex melodic lines that he was able to play completely drunk.

The third is the always forgotten Carol Kaye known for her ability to record bass or guitar quicker and better than any other musician, maybe not as inventive as others, but always perfect and playing what she was asked.

The fourth is Paul McCartney as he had integrated the previous musicians knowledge (often without even knowing it as he likes to say) in his approach of bass and made the bass heard on any record. He is also very melodic in his playing, which pushed the bass to the front and at the same level as guitars.

The fifth is Jaco Pastorius even if Percy Jones was playing fretless as a lead instrument before him, Jaco was always under the spotlight liking to show off.

And don't forget that if Paul is under appreciated, it's only because he's a heavy smoker cheapskate vegetarian... 🤣

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My bass players who changed the world, rather than just great players, list is a short one, Paul McCartney, James Jamerson and Larry Graham.

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12 minutes ago, chris_b said:

My bass players who changed the world, rather than just great players, list is a short one, Paul McCartney, James Jamerson and Larry Graham.

+1 (x2)

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I'd say Jet Harris. IMO unsurpassed in terms of influence in the UK.

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13 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

I'd say Jet Harris. IMO unsurpassed in terms of influence in the UK.

Bof. I can't say I've ever noticed the fellow (yes, I was there at the time...). :|

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

I'd say Jet Harris. IMO unsurpassed in terms of influence in the UK.

He probably is but didn't change the way bass players played or viewed their position in the band or song.

Edited by chris_b

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I like Paul McCartney's bass playing, but do I love it? No. His song writing is mediocre at best, especially without the rest of the Beatles, and his bass playing is rhythmically quite interesting, but I can't get wildly excited about it

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, neilp said:

His song writing is mediocre at best

+1.

So is his bass playing. It's frequently the case that when a band has achieved the fame and fortune that the Beatles did, primarily driven by the musical expertise of screaming 12 year old girls, people in subsequent generations have been all too eager to see talent and brilliance and genius where there certainly wasn't any, as is always the case with any band so revered. In truth, there has never been any correlation between talent and the popularity achieved by any artist. People are forever reading deep meanings into their lyrics where there wasn't any too, but this is to be expected.

The Beatles, including McCartney, were 4 mop-top numpties would have been entirely lost without George Martin.

 

Edited by TheLowDown

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19 minutes ago, TheLowDown said:

+1.

So is his bass playing. It's frequently the case that when a band has achieved the fame and fortune that the Beatles did, primarily driven by the musical expertise of screaming 12 year old girls, people in subsequent generations have been all too eager to see talent and brilliance and genius where there certainly wasn't any, as is always the case with any band so revered. In truth, there has never been any correlation between talent and the popularity achieved by any artist. People are forever reading deep meanings into their lyrics where there wasn't any too, but this is to be expected.

The Beatles, including McCartney, were 4 mop-top numpties would have been entirely lost without George Martin.

 

Beethoven was quite popular in his day...

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1 hour ago, TheLowDown said:

+1.

So is his bass playing. It's frequently the case that when a band has achieved the fame and fortune that the Beatles did, primarily driven by the musical expertise of screaming 12 year old girls, people in subsequent generations have been all too eager to see talent and brilliance and genius where there certainly wasn't any, as is always the case with any band so revered. In truth, there has never been any correlation between talent and the popularity achieved by any artist. People are forever reading deep meanings into their lyrics where there wasn't any too, but this is to be expected.

The Beatles, including McCartney, were 4 mop-top numpties would have been entirely lost without George Martin.

 

Don't feed the troll.

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I guess McCartney maybe sometimes just doesn't get recognised as a bass player, never mind a good one. He is most recognised as a songwriter, and can play most pop/rock instruments very well.

 

He's not a good enough singer to be known as a singer.

He's not (well wasn't) a bad enough singer to be known as a bass player!

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21 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

I guess McCartney maybe sometimes just doesn't get recognised as a bass player, never mind a good one. He is most recognised as a songwriter, and can play most pop/rock instruments very well.

 

He's not a good enough singer to be known as a singer.

He's not (well wasn't) a bad enough singer to be known as a bass player!

In my opinion, he's an OK bass player, pianist and guitarist, whose songwriting is at best trite and at worst complete drivel, and who has survived for his entire career on a reputation that he never really deserved. Perhaps this should be part of the Emperor's New Clothes thread?

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Posted (edited)

 

28 minutes ago, neilp said:

whose songwriting is at best trite

I'm not going to dispute that he wrote plenty of trite stuff, but "at best"....? 

For No One, Paperback Writer, Got To Get You Into My Life, Drive My Car, I'm Looking Through You, Things We Said Today, Blackbird.....

(At the other end of his spectrum, I sometimes wonder if making John Lennon play over a 100 takes of Ob La Di Ob La Da was some kind of surrealist / provocateur performance art, the song itself merely the means to the end?)

Edited by Ricky Rioli

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15 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said:

 

I'm not going to dispute that he wrote plenty of trite stuff, but "at best"....? 

For No One, Paperback Writer, Got To Get You Into My Life, Drive My Car, I'm Looking Through You, Things We Said Today, Blackbird.....

 a lot my favourite Beatle songs are written by Lennon, Macca did do some good ones but was responsible for most of the average stuff, by Beatle standards anyway, have to agree with one of @neilp's comments, some of his lyrics were/are drivel, he's a lazy lyricist who tends to writes rubbish just to get a rhyme and too often strays into twee territory

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5 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

 some of his lyrics were/are drivel, he's a lazy lyricist who tends to writes rubbish just to get a rhyme and too often strays into twee territory

Yes, that was his achiles heel. Twee.

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Can't agree at all with @Nail Soup @PaulWarning @neilp or @TheLowDown, but hey - that's the joy of good, honest debate here on Basschat... 😁

Only my opinion of course, but Eleanor Rigby (amongst many of McCartney's other songs) is a work of absolute genius. 

No doubting the stunning foresight and incredible contribution of George Martin of course, and the very different, complimentary genius of John Lennon, but McCartney's place as one of the very, very best songwriters of the 20th century, is absolutely assured. 

In addition, his bass playing contribution is right up there too and as if that isn't enough, in 2010, he was ranked No. 11 on the Rolling Stone Magazine '100 Greatest Singers of All Time'. 

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26 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

The four of them were lucky to have each other, it was a moment in history, that's all. 

absolutely, the whole being greater than the sum of the parts

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30 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

The four of them were lucky to have each other, it was a moment in history, that's all. 

Five if you count George Martin

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35 minutes ago, StickyDBRmf said:

The four of them were lucky to have each other, it was a moment in history, that's all. 

A 'moment' that is still being discussed nearly 60 years later?

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14 minutes ago, Old Man Riva said:

Love this...

 

Yep, me too 👍

Used to cover this in a band I was in a few years ago.. We did a mash-up of the original version and Carleen Anderson's cover of it , and it was great fun to play! 

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8 minutes ago, silverfoxnik said:

Yep, me too 👍

Used to cover this in a band I was in a few years ago.. We did a mash-up of the original version and Carleen Anderson's cover of it , and it was great fun to play! 

The song means a great deal as it was mine and Mrs Riva’s wedding song, all those years ago - we didn’t dance, as such, more stood at the bar giggling and tried to sing along! The Rod/Faces version is wonderful also (there’s a live BBC version where Ronnie Laine sings the verse and Rod then comes in and takes the roof off with the chorus - you almost feel sorry for Ronnie!).

I think Macca’s rock ‘n’ roll voice is often overlooked - his vocals on the Sgt Pepper’s track itself are right up there for me, in terms of great/iconic rock ‘n’ roll performances... 

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