Paul McCartney - under appreciated?

[Crawford13]

I have been listening to The Beatles a lot recently, and it got me thinking, just how unappreciated Paul is to my generation (I'm 36). 

As a song writer he is massively revered, but as a bass player he is incredible. What he was playing in the 60's is just out of this world, and I rarely see him given much love for it. 

I'm wondering how this has come to be, any thoughts? 

[Cat Burrito]

I agree. I think on many levels he is a national treasure but definitely his musicality is undervalued. John Lennon had the hip element in many people's eyes and Paul maybe less so. Similar relationship with Gram Parsons / Chris Hillman. I spent a while studying his bass lines in the earlier days of my playing and was amazed with how clever he was / is.

I don't think it's necessarily just your generation. I'm 12yrs older and I would say that it is the case with most people who weren't around during the 60s.

[Downunderwonder]

Bass is largely underappreciated, until it stops.

The flipside is playing nothing on an intro, or sparsely, creates a 'dogs off leash' level of excitement when you kick into gear.

[Crawford13]

1 minute ago, Downunderwonder said:

Bass is largely underappreciated, until it stops.

The flipside is playing nothing on an intro, or sparsely, creates a 'dogs off leash' level of excitement when you kick into gear.

I agree, but even in the bass community I rarely hear much love for Paul McCartney. Perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place. 

[mikel]

1 hour ago, Crawford13 said:

I have been listening to The Beatles a lot recently, and it got me thinking, just how unappreciated Paul is to my generation (I'm 36). 

As a song writer he is massively revered, but as a bass player he is incredible. What he was playing in the 60's is just out of this world, and I rarely see him given much love for it. 

I'm wondering how this has come to be, any thoughts? 

Probably because the Beatles were insanely popular. I think some people regard popularity as un cool and its more street cred to admire more left field musicians. Just my take. Hence the number of people who brag about not liking the Beatles. There are a lot of bands I don't like but I don't make a point of stating the fact. Paul was a great bassist in my ears.

[Crawford13]

3 minutes ago, mikel said:

Probably because the Beatles were insanely popular. I think some people regard popularity as un cool and its more street cred to admire more left field musicians. Just my take. Hence the number of people who brag about not liking the Beatles. There are a lot of bands I don't like but I don't make a point of stating the fact. Paul was a great bassist in my ears.

This is a valid point. 

[Old Man Riva]

How has this come to be?

I think a lot appreciation of/towards bands/musicians often requires a decent passing of time to properly appreciate and appraise their work.

In my experience, Macca/The Beatles weren’t referenced much at all in the 80s. That said they’d only split up 10 yrs earlier, so in today’s terms it would be akin to appraising, say, the work of Adele (the biggest selling artist of 2011], which would feel odd to do - in another 10 yrs perhaps, but not today.

The only references I can recall were U2, of all people, covering Helter Skelter and referencing them in amongst artists such as John Coltrane, BB King and Bills Holliday as part of the Rattle and Hum period. To my ears, it all sounded a bit odd, and dare I say, uncool at the time (which says more about me at the time than it does about multi million album selling rock combo U2!).

The sounds and playing styles of bass in the 80s (certainly the early half of the decade) were markedly different to Macca. Not better, just different! 

Roll forward to the 90s, and a 30 yr period having passed, I think that’s where I’ve noticed The Beatles being most critiqued - documentaries, new releases etc. - all helped by the internet and bands wearing their influences on their sleeves.

Not bad if you think how the 90s began with Candy Flip!

I suppose it’s a long-winded way of saying, for me, up until recent years Macca has often been overlooked/under appreciated in terms of his bass playing...

[Crawford13]

8 minutes ago, Old Man Riva said:

How has this come to be?

I think a lot appreciation of/towards bands/musicians often requires a decent passing of time to properly appreciate and appraise their work.

In my experience, Macca/The Beatles weren’t referenced much at all in the 80s. That said they’d only split up 10 yrs earlier, so in today’s terms it would be akin to appraising, say, the work of Adele (the biggest selling artist of 2011], which would feel odd to do - in another 10 yrs perhaps, but not today.

The only references I can recall were U2, of all people, covering Helter Skelter and referencing them in amongst artists such as John Coltrane, BB King and Bills Holliday as part of the Rattle and Hum period. To my ears, it all sounded a bit odd, and dare I say, uncool at the time (which says more about me at the time than it does about multi million album selling rock combo U2!).

The sounds and playing styles of bass in the 80s (certainly the early half of the decade) were markedly different to Macca. Not better, just different! 

Roll forward to the 90s, and a 30 yr period having passed, I think that’s where I’ve noticed The Beatles being most critiqued - documentaries, new releases etc. - all helped by the internet and bands wearing their influences on their sleeves.

Not bad if you think how the 90s began with Candy Flip!

I suppose it’s a long-winded way of saying, for me, up until recent years Macca has often been overlooked/under appreciated in terms of his bass playing...

Thank you for the insight. I know what you mean about the 90's, I find it difficult to figure out is Oasis helped or harmed the legacy of The Beatles. 

[TheGreek]

IMO McCartney is one of the bassists that pushed the instrument to another level but probably doesn't get the credit for it. Just play some of his lines to see how modern some of them feel.

[Crawford13]

1 minute ago, TheGreek said:

IMO McCartney is one of the bassists that pushed the instrument to another level but probably doesn't get the credit for it. Just play some of his lines to see how modern some of them feel.

I totally agree with you.

[PaulWarning]

I think we've had a similar thread before, usually, only bass players listen or understand for the bass line, I don't think he's under appreciated amongst Bass players

[Munurmunuh]

Nothing like not really clocking the bassline to tell you how good it is

[Old Man Riva]

58 minutes ago, Crawford13 said:

Thank you for the insight. I know what you mean about the 90's, I find it difficult to figure out is Oasis helped or harmed the legacy of The Beatles. 

Other than their first album I’m not really an Oasis fan but I don’t think they harmed the legacy in any way. They were/are amongst many artists  across a myriad of genres that in the recent-ish past have spoken openly about the importance/influence of The Beatles and Macca etc. 

That certainly didn’t happen in the 80s, at least not that I was aware...

 

[PaulWarning]

Oasis may have been inspired by the Beatles, amongst others, but their bass lines are nothing to write home about

[Mykesbass]

Short answer, No.

Longer answer: One of the most highly appreciated songwriters of all times. His bass lines were an integral part of that songwriting process. So even if Jo(e) Public don't jump up and down hailing his bass playing it doesn't mean it is under appreciated. And that's from someone who really doesn't care much for the Beatles.

 

[Old Man Riva]

21 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

Oasis may have been inspired by the Beatles, amongst others, but their bass lines are nothing to write home about

Completely agree, and with Oasis I’m not sure I hear it in much/any of their music, if I’m honest - not a criticism of them, I just don’t hear it! 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Old Man Riva

[Crawford13]

11 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Short answer, No.

Longer answer: One of the most highly appreciated songwriters of all times. His bass lines were an integral part of that songwriting process. So even if Jo(e) Public don't jump up and down hailing his bass playing it doesn't mean it is under appreciated. And that's from someone who really doesn't care much for the Beatles.

 

That's an interesting perspective, and to be honest I hadn't thought about it that way. Peraps that it my issue. I was thinking about the topic from a bass player point of view, rather than a musician point of view. 

[PaulWarning]

4 minutes ago, Old Man Riva said:

Completely agree, and with Oasis I’m not sure I hear it in much/any of their music, if I’m honest - not a criticism of them, I just don’t hear it! 

I seem to remember an interview with Noel where he said, although he admired the Beatles Glam had a lot more of an influence on Oasis

[Old Man Riva]

4 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I seem to remember an interview with Noel where he said, although he admired the Beatles Glam had a lot more of an influence on Oasis

That would make more sense - Slade etc.

A mate of mine ran a studio in Coventry and was a Beatles obsessive. He used to go to record fairs and buy cassette bootlegs of the various sessions The Beatles did (probably the same that you can find on YouTube these days) and then pore over each outtake.

Again, and again, and again.

Forcing me to listen to Macca and explaining, note by note, why each note was perfect. After a few days it was pretty much ‘torture by Beatles’, but he was right, of course! 

I actually think that Wings are massively underrated, but that’s probably one for another day!

[Nail Soup]

Slightly off topic, but I understand that Paul (rather than John or George) inherited the bass role because a) they needed to retain George's guitar skills and b) Lennon was to arrogant to go to bass c) McCartney thought of it as a challenge.

 

[Woodinblack]

Hard to imagine that Paul McCartney could be under appreciated when hardly any time goes by on here without a thread on how excelent he was. So I think he is probably appreciated enough!

[Crawford13]

17 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Hard to imagine that Paul McCartney could be under appreciated when hardly any time goes by on here without a thread on how excelent he was. So I think he is probably appreciated enough!

I did try look for an existing thread, but I must not have looked far enough back.

I do genuinely think that compared to other players who are considered to have raised the bar for bass eg. Jameson, Jaco, Stanley Clarke, Entwhistle , I rarely hear McCartney talked about in the same way as a bass player.  Though to be fair it has been pointed out already that given how revered he is as a songwriter, his prowess as a bass player is implied.

[PaulWarning]

29 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

Slightly off topic, but I understand that Paul (rather than John or George) inherited the bass role because a) they needed to retain George's guitar skills and b) Lennon was to arrogant to go to bass c) McCartney thought of it as a challenge.

 

something like that, when Pete Sutcliffe left they needed a bass player and Paul was the one who was least against giving it a go

[Nail Soup]

48 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

something like that, when Pete Sutcliffe left they needed a bass player and Paul was the one who was least against giving it a go

Yes but it was Stu Sutcliffe.

Pete was better known as the Yorkshire Ripper🙁

[PaulWarning]

31 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

Yes but it was Stu Sutcliffe.

Pete was better known as the Yorkshire Ripper🙁

lol, yes, silly me, doesn't help that the drummer was Pete Best 😂