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Toddy

Amplification (have we gone wrong)

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Modern preamps can do some pretty good stuff. Modern lightweight power amps can't. 

I've been through the following (in no particular order):

Genz Benz Streamliner 900

Darkglass m900

Markbass lm3

TC RH700

Genzler Magellan 800

EBS Riedmar

Mesa D800

GK MB fusion 500

None of them came even remotely close to my old Trace SM250 so all got sold. My old Aguilar DB750 was an absolute class above even the trace but my final resting place is a Handbox R400 (small, relatively light but no class d in sight). 

For me, class d isn't worth the weight saving especially when the handbox is so close in terms of weight but so far above in terms of heft. Daren't try the WB100 as I'm pretty sure I'll be £1k lighter in a flash.

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Quite simply, I believe that class d is good for reinforcing tone (p.a application), but not for creating your tone in the first place. 
Its all in the response and feel which creates the tone initially, ( valves etc) then hoofing it through a big PA system which will highly likely be class d, and simply making your tone louder with minimal colouration   :)

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3 hours ago, hooky_lowdown said:

Old Peavey gear is my least favourite ever.

Fixed.😉

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Have to say, few basses sound better than when they go through a 60s or 70s valve amp and a couple of 4x12 cabs loaded with celestion speakers.

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23 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

The truth is we don't much like uncoloured sound for bass and most of us aren't very good at finding the eq to achieve it so a nice old Trace that gives us the Trace sound sounds better to us than our own attempts to recreate it. 

Just to clarify (for what may be the hundredth time on these hallowed pages), I and imagine many other lovers of Trace amps don't just like or buy them for the preshape scooped sound. I myself rarely use it and if I do it's mixed with the graphic. It seems to be a very popular misconception that if you like Trace amps you must be some sort of mid-hating slap monster!

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Have to say my Tech21 VT500 sounds great, and I’m still discovering new sounds given how interactive the controls are. Does it compare with my old Trace gear? No idea, as I’m currently only playing through a BF One10 (although get my 2nd tomorrow), which although a great cab is a somewhat different beast than my old Trace 4x10. 

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Just now, JohnDaBass said:

+1 

Phil you have expressed the mindset of many of us.Well done and thank you! 

I've been saying it for years. I used to get mocked for it 😄

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2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I love that this was edited by one of the mods :)

As a flag waving, T-shirt wearing techy I'll bite. Mic that rig up and pump it through a really good Class D, Neo speakered, festival sized PA rig and it'd sound just as good. So it isn't class D or lightweight neo speakers, it is something else.

I'll tell you my theory, in the olden days speakers and amps were designed to enhance your bass sound (guitar sound even more so but this is Basschat) They didn't need to be clean and undistorted they just had to sound good. People built cabs and tried them out with bass and the ones that sounded best or most popular got made and sold. Theory wasn't really worked out until the 70's and didn't get through to instrument amp design until much later. The truth is we don't much like uncoloured sound for bass and most of us aren't very good at finding the eq to achieve it so a nice old Trace that gives us the Trace sound sounds better to us than our own attempts to recreate it. 

The second thing is that we like things that are loud, too loud to be sensible but there is joy in just cranking up an old monolith of a speaker with an amp with the frequency response curve of the Cairngorms. Sensibly we'd scrap the backline, use in-ears or at least floor monitors and let the PA do it's job but for some that's no fun. 

There's also a lot of self delusion, I used to have fun in my old rear wheel drive cars with cross ply tyres sliding round bends double declutching because the synchromesh was rubbish but I can't really pretend those cars were 'better' than those I drive now. 

One day soon the computer modelling will be so good we won't be able to tell the difference but that is still a little way away. Until then if you love an old Peavey stack and don't mind shifting it then the important thing isn't technical perfection so go for it and enjoy.  

so after 20 yrs of making people dance and have a goo d time, im still convinced, this is a load of bollox, 

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20 minutes ago, Toddy said:

so after 20 yrs of making people dance and have a goo d time, im still convinced, this is a load of bollox, 

How's your back doing? 😉

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7 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

How's your back doing? 😉

I load in and out of theatres, 3 times a week,   its fine, nice of you to ask lol

 

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3 minutes ago, Toddy said:

I load in and out of theatres, 3 times a week,   its fine, nice of you to ask lol

You're very welcome. And if you're someone who can do that effortlessly then I, for one, ain't gonna be picking an argument with you any time soon. Lol.

Long live Trace Elliot.

Edited by Al Krow
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48 minutes ago, karlfer said:

Sorry Toddy but that cab seems a bit Chubby to me 😐

 daft lad , lo  I play guitar on that gig now,,please don't hate me,,,

 

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@Toddy not all class D amps are the same, there may be one out there that does the bizniz paired with the right cab.

Everyone will say their own slays, so without doubt, mine does!

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I had the old Mk4 Peavey head in 80's and wish i'd kept it. 2 channels with graphic EQ section.

Loved the sound i was getting thru a custom 15" & 12" cab later thru a 15" cab and 210 on top. 

However the old GAS got the better of me.

Like many others i've tried the lightweight gear and gone back to my Mesa Mpulse and PH212 cab. I love the tone.

Dave

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9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

You're very welcome. And if you're someone who can do that effortlessly then I, for one, ain't gonna be picking an argument with you any time soon. Lol.

Long live Trace Elliot.

its cool, loading nexo alfa and a piano down a pier or venue every week,,just stick it on wheels,,jobs easy lol

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4 hours ago, Roger2611 said:

I have just swapped my Mesa Boogie D800 for a Mesa Boogie Walkabout head, purely because I found the D800 felt like it lacked something! I will run it for a few weeks before coming to any conclusions.

The only class D head I have liked and kept is the Markbass LM3 which I love, a TC Electronic RH750, Ampeg SVT pro7 and Mesa Boogie D800 have all come and gone because the Markbass sounded better (to me)

I actually thought that the D800 was the best sounding Class D amp I had heard, but I still ended up getting rid of it (to be replaced by a Handbox R400) as I thought it lacked something, especially at volume in a band with a lot of keys. Also, it wasn’t massively loud for an amp rated @ 800w (a common issue for me with Class D amps).

I also have an old Markbass LM3, a great amp that I think does what it does really well. I may be wrong, but I always that the old Markbass amps were not actually Class D. It is certainly pretty loud, a proper 500w.

My Mesa Mpulse is still by far my favourite amp…

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The MB LM3 post 2012 is class D, I believe. I think the earlier LM2 was A/B.

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17 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

@Toddy not all class D amps are the same, there may be one out there that does the bizniz paired with the right cab.

Everyone will say their own slays, so without doubt, mine does!

Mine too, the Ashdown RM500 EVO-II. I’ve had many Class D amps, all have been good but for what I want the RM tops them all.

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please note, I'm not trying to pick an argument, but I've a lot of experience, and my ears arnt painted on, 

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3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

The MB LM3 post 2012 is class D, I believe. I think the earlier LM2 was A/B.

What about the earlier Italian built LM3s??

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Every couple of weeks I play through my old Peavey SS head into an Ampeg 115, (I leave them at the community centre for all to use in the music club). 

Just dipping the mids a bit it gives a full, warm sound with plenty of authority. The tone controls are effective but gentle to use and give a "softer" sound through the 115.

My gig & home rig is now a TC BH250, (class D),  into 1 or 2 BF One10s.

It took a short while to get used to the more effective/sensitive tone controls which provide a wider choice of sound. The One10s I would say are very articulate and can be punchy.

So maybe some of the difference I found had to do with passive versus active tone circuitry.

Can't say I regret the change to class D least of all for the size & weight.

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